3512 réponses à ce sujet

[Badpie]

ExtremeOne wrote...

how can anything be mended when the alliance turned its back on Shepard and sent a spy to spy on him. 

Not sure.  But I'm predicting that there's a lot more to the story.  At least there should be.  I was a little confused at their disbelief that I was still a good guy too, but like I said I'm betting there's something they're not telling us yet.  If not it's just sloppy writing.

Modifié par Badpie, 26 août 2010 - 02:00 .

[ExtremeOne]

Estelindis wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...
I do know that I would like to see Shep show some kind of emotion. I know that Shep is a bad*** but he/she can't be heartless. Showing a little vunerability when with their LI would go a long way. I think that telling Ash/Kaidan that they are needed and not just from a mission stand point would be a start into them mending the issues that are between them

Indeed.  That was what really bothered me about Horizon.  Shepard was just so blasé about the reunion.  Even when the Collector Ship takes off, that colonist (Delan?) was getting very aggravated, while Shepard (who had no way of knowing if Ash/Kai was on that ship or not) relaxedly told him to take a chill pill. 

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  


thats nice you want your Shepard to be all hugs and kisses but when 2 people basically crap all over my Shepard for no real reason then yeah i want to be very ruthless and get revenge 

[ExtremeOne]

Badpie wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

how can anything be mended when the alliance turned its back on Shepard and sent a spy to spy on him. 

Not sure.  But I'm predicting that there's a lot more to the story.  At least there should be.  I was a little confused at their disbelief that I was still a good guy too, but like I said I'm betting there's something they're not telling us yet.  If not it's just sloppy writing.

  


just maybe in the form of dlc the whole alliance vs Cerberus and the real reason why kaiden or Ashley spyed on Shepard can be learned. If they were shocked that i was a live thats one thing but the whole verbal chewing out crap just because Cerberus brought him or her back and that i turned my back on the alliance. that pissed me off as a player because there was no option to respond. bioware needs to fix this 

[Chignon]

Collider wrote...

Depends how Shepard acts on Horizon. S/he can be pretty cordial if the right dialog options are chosen. I had to reload the conversation with Kaidan several times before getting everything right. Some of the options are derpy, they're not just isolated to the bottom options.

Some of the options made me want to shove the words back down my Shepard's throat. Excuse me, but "Sorry, I didn't try to contact you  but I didn't want to reopen old wounds." or "I could use somebody like you in my crew. It'll be just like the old times."? (Obviously, I paraphrased a bit.)
Shepard isn't a brick and I'd love to see her/him not act like one.
I can understand Bioware wanting to save Ash and Kaidan for their supposedly integral role in ME3, but Horizon, which really had some potential, was just lazy writing with shallow lines and bad animations.

[Badpie]

Estelindis wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...
I do know that I would like to see Shep show some kind of emotion. I know that Shep is a bad*** but he/she can't be heartless. Showing a little vunerability when with their LI would go a long way. I think that telling Ash/Kaidan that they are needed and not just from a mission stand point would be a start into them mending the issues that are between them

Indeed.  That was what really bothered me about Horizon.  Shepard was just so blasé about the reunion.  Even when the Collector Ship takes off, that colonist (Delan?) was getting very aggravated, while Shepard (who had no way of knowing if Ash/Kai was on that ship or not) relaxedly told him to take a chill pill. 

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

[siriusrambles]

Snuggels99 wrote...
And I want to know why Ash and Kaidan were promoted.

i've been curious why kaidan rose two ranks.  what did he do to merit it?  i'm assuming the battle of the citadel was the first but why did he receive a second in a span of two years?  were he and ash doing the same thing for the alliance or did they have similar yet different roles that played to their strengths? 

[Collider]

Chignon wrote...

Collider wrote...

Depends how Shepard acts on Horizon. S/he can be pretty cordial if the right dialog options are chosen. I had to reload the conversation with Kaidan several times before getting everything right. Some of the options are derpy, they're not just isolated to the bottom options.

Some of the options made me want to shove the words back down my Shepard's throat. Excuse me, but "Sorry, I didn't try to contact you  but I didn't want to reopen old wounds." or "I could use somebody like you in my crew. It'll be just like the old times."? (Obviously, I paraphrased a bit.)
Shepard isn't a brick and I'd love to see her/him not act like one.
I can understand Bioware wanting to save Ash and Kaidan for their supposedly integral role in ME3, but Horizon, which really had some potential, was just lazy writing with shallow lines and bad animations.

They showed signs of this in ME1. Kaidan and Ashley share the exact same lines in the scene before the Normandy lands on Ilos. This is a problem - Kaidan and Ashley are meant to be foils for each other, not having identical lines.

[ExtremeOne]

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...
I do know that I would like to see Shep show some kind of emotion. I know that Shep is a bad*** but he/she can't be heartless. Showing a little vunerability when with their LI would go a long way. I think that telling Ash/Kaidan that they are needed and not just from a mission stand point would be a start into them mending the issues that are between them

Indeed.  That was what really bothered me about Horizon.  Shepard was just so blasé about the reunion.  Even when the Collector Ship takes off, that colonist (Delan?) was getting very aggravated, while Shepard (who had no way of knowing if Ash/Kai was on that ship or not) relaxedly told him to take a chill pill. 

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

   


well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying. 

[Lord Zeuss]

The Alliance storyline is still very much up in the air. I feel there is still a lot of storytelling to do in that regard. If the creepy but tangential Shadow Broker storyline absolutely cannot wait until ME3, then I think there is no case for not addressing this integral part of the Mass Effect story. The Alliance being the main governing body of humankind (and I'm pretty sure humankind figures pretty heavily into the Mass Effect story, after all) is an important aspect that to date has not been addressed in ME2.



Also, there is the matter of Horizon. Everything was vague and fuzzy. As a user pointed out, we don't really know *what* the Illusive Man leaked, and I'm keen to think it wasn't anything that would have made the Alliance feel daisies or hearts for Shepard. Also, Ash/Kaidan's motives for being on Horizon are fuzzy at best, with all the hints that there was something more going on and Anderson's involvement; he 'approved' the mission, and we know he's trying to do what he can to make people believe the Reaper threat is real.



This is not to mention what has already been said about what has been happening with Ash/Kaidan for those two years. We've practically been handed a two-year biography on Liara's life during that time, but aside from the emails we know nothing about what those two years held for Ashley and Kaidan.



There is loads of storytelling left to do, which by all rights should be done if Liara's DLC is to be justified.

[Badpie]

siriusrambles wrote...

Snuggels99 wrote...
And I want to know why Ash and Kaidan were promoted.

i've been curious why kaidan rose two ranks.  what did he do to merit it?  i'm assuming the battle of the citadel was the first but why did he receive a second in a span of two years?  were he and ash doing the same thing for the alliance or did they have similar yet different roles that played to their strengths? 

I think he was only promoted one rank.  He was Staff Lieutenant, one rank below Shepard as Lt. Commander.

[ExtremeOne]

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...
I do know that I would like to see Shep show some kind of emotion. I know that Shep is a bad*** but he/she can't be heartless. Showing a little vunerability when with their LI would go a long way. I think that telling Ash/Kaidan that they are needed and not just from a mission stand point would be a start into them mending the issues that are between them

Indeed.  That was what really bothered me about Horizon.  Shepard was just so blasé about the reunion.  Even when the Collector Ship takes off, that colonist (Delan?) was getting very aggravated, while Shepard (who had no way of knowing if Ash/Kai was on that ship or not) relaxedly told him to take a chill pill. 

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

  


I understand your point 

[Pups_of_war_76]

What's the dealio, peoples?

[fortunesque]

Badpie wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

Snuggels99 wrote...
And I want to know why Ash and Kaidan were promoted.

i've been curious why kaidan rose two ranks.  what did he do to merit it?  i'm assuming the battle of the citadel was the first but why did he receive a second in a span of two years?  were he and ash doing the same thing for the alliance or did they have similar yet different roles that played to their strengths? 

I think he was only promoted one rank.  He was Staff Lieutenant, one rank below Shepard as Lt. Commander.

He was promoted two. He's Staff Commander, which is one above Lt. Commander. In ME1 he was Staff Lt, hence two ranks 

[Jade5233]

EDIT:  Fortune beat me to it.  Sorry

Modifié par Jade5233, 26 août 2010 - 02:15 .

[ExtremeOne]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

The Alliance storyline is still very much up in the air. I feel there is still a lot of storytelling to do in that regard. If the creepy but tangential Shadow Broker storyline absolutely cannot wait until ME3, then I think there is no case for not addressing this integral part of the Mass Effect story. The Alliance being the main governing body of humankind (and I'm pretty sure humankind figures pretty heavily into the Mass Effect story, after all) is an important aspect that to date has not been addressed in ME2.

Also, there is the matter of Horizon. Everything was vague and fuzzy. As a user pointed out, we don't really know *what* the Illusive Man leaked, and I'm keen to think it wasn't anything that would have made the Alliance feel daisies or hearts for Shepard. Also, Ash/Kaidan's motives for being on Horizon are fuzzy at best, with all the hints that there was something more going on and Anderson's involvement; he 'approved' the mission, and we know he's trying to do what he can to make people believe the Reaper threat is real.

This is not to mention what has already been said about what has been happening with Ash/Kaidan for those two years. We've practically been handed a two-year biography on Liara's life during that time, but aside from the emails we know nothing about what those two years held for Ashley and Kaidan.

There is loads of storytelling left to do, which by all rights should be done if Liara's DLC is to be justified.

  


Bioware needs to fix the missing story plot from ME 2 and not what Liara is doing . I agree with what you are saying 

[Estelindis]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Estelindis wrote...
Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  
thats nice you want your Shepard to be all hugs and kisses but when 2 people basically crap all over my Shepard for no real reason then yeah i want to be very ruthless and get revenge 

Playing a character who is more than an armour-clad brick does not equal being all hugs and kisses.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think you're confusing annoyance re. your character being written into a corner with annoyance re. the characters of Ashley and Kaidan.  Considering how upset both of them were after Shepard's death, and how much they value loyalty to the Alliance, they want to believe Shepard isn't working with Cerberus.  Finding out otherwise is difficult for them, particularly considering that their experiences with and feelings regarding Shepard contribute to and interact with their feelings of loyalty to the Alliance.  They are naturally going to feel conflicted and emotional.  I fail to see how anyone could think that a reaction like theirs is justly punishable by death.

As far as I'm concerned, my Shepard was the chump on Horizon.  The reactions from Ash and Kai weren't perfect, but they take second place to "how you doin'?" after two years of mourning.  If we don't punish our Sheps for being badly written in that scene, why punish Ash/Kai?

That said, I'd understand if you wanted the option to be extremely hostile towards them.  That's just a roleplaying choice.  (Killing them, though, would push Shepard into properly psycho territory - if s/he isn't there already.)

EDIT: I see while I was typing my post you acknowledged my point about Shepard being more than just a brick.  Thanks!  I suggest looking up the scene at the lockers if you haven't already. 

Modifié par Estelindis, 26 août 2010 - 02:20 .

[Lord Zeuss]

fortunesque wrote...

Badpie wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

Snuggels99 wrote...
And I want to know why Ash and Kaidan were promoted.

i've been curious why kaidan rose two ranks.  what did he do to merit it?  i'm assuming the battle of the citadel was the first but why did he receive a second in a span of two years?  were he and ash doing the same thing for the alliance or did they have similar yet different roles that played to their strengths? 

I think he was only promoted one rank.  He was Staff Lieutenant, one rank below Shepard as Lt. Commander.

He was promoted two. He's Staff Commander, which is one above Lt. Commander. In ME1 he was Staff Lt, hence two ranks 

The talk of why Kaidan rose two ranks instead of one should go in his support thread, thanks.

[Jade5233]

Lord Zeuss wrote...

fortunesque wrote...

Badpie wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

Snuggels99 wrote...
And I want to know why Ash and Kaidan were promoted.

i've been curious why kaidan rose two ranks.  what did he do to merit it?  i'm assuming the battle of the citadel was the first but why did he receive a second in a span of two years?  were he and ash doing the same thing for the alliance or did they have similar yet different roles that played to their strengths? 

I think he was only promoted one rank.  He was Staff Lieutenant, one rank below Shepard as Lt. Commander.

He was promoted two. He's Staff Commander, which is one above Lt. Commander. In ME1 he was Staff Lt, hence two ranks 

The talk of why Kaidan rose two ranks instead of one should go in his support thread, thanks.

I think the point to that was that the explanation of how that happend is an idea for dialogue in the DLC.

[Badpie]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

(snip)

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

   


well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying. 

This was part of the reason I feel like they were handled badly on Horizon.  For people who didn't play ME1 they were just kind of like "who is this person and why is she yelling at me?"  And that's not really fair to the awesome characters they created for ME1.  

[siriusrambles]

Lord Zeuss wrote...
The talk of why Kaidan rose two ranks instead of one should go in his support thread, thanks.

i was discussing that it could be addressed in potential dlc.  i'm not sure how that is not relevant to the topic at hand.

[sagefic]

Rogue Unit wrote...

I'd rather see VS DLC than a bunch of useless firepacks and armors.

And thank you, fortunesque for engaging me. Sagequeen's post made me see some of the neglect the VS receives. For what it's worth I hope this thread convinces Bio-ware to make the DLC if they already aren't.

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

thanks rogue. that's appreciated.

@ fort: one of the things about that interview is that so far, it seems they *will* do that for liara. we'll have to see what the LotSB DLC does. i'm not sure if that ups my hope for a VS DLC or resolution or not, because i can only assume that "love interests" plural means Kaidan and Ashley. so...cautious hope? but still posting here to make it clear i want that VS stuff, too.

sir-edmund wrote...
I think one of the things that upset me the most in ME2 was being ex-communicated from the Alliance. It hurt to get kicked out of the cool kids' club and to be stonewalled at every turn. It's like Anderson didn't invite me to his birthday party, even though he invited Kaidan and Udina.

so this.

look, in the first game you either joined the Alliance cause 1) they saved you from a life in the streets, 2) they saved you after mindoir or 3) your parents were Alliance. so seriously, unless you are a VERY cold little person, you have very good reason to appreciate and like the Alliance at least in some capacity. you might hate the council (no matter how paragon you are), but i think for folks who played the first game, it is hard to dislike the Alliance.

Then in ME2 the Alliance is made out to be the bad guys - by Cerberus, no less. hardcore paragons are chafing under that, wanting an explanation. every shade of paragrade to renegon who still is loyal to the alliance is wanting answers, too. only the hardcore renegades, it seems, want to stay with Cerberus and they're just chomping at the bit to tell the Allinace to F off and kill ashley or kaidan. personally, i think a VS DLC is a perfect chance to set loyalties, get answers, and find out who will be at your back going into the final game. i assume ME3 will be a lot of tracking down how to kill the reapers info, so it would make sense to tie up this arc in a DLC, I think.

Anyhow, i agree with Brodyaha - hopefully if the devs are wondering what the fans would buy, this will make them think this way, and like fort said, if they already are leaning this way, it will be a big thumbs up. just wish we could know one way or the other.

[RubyRed1975]

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

RubyRed1975 wrote...
I do know that I would like to see Shep show some kind of emotion. I know that Shep is a bad*** but he/she can't be heartless. Showing a little vunerability when with their LI would go a long way. I think that telling Ash/Kaidan that they are needed and not just from a mission stand point would be a start into them mending the issues that are between them

Indeed.  That was what really bothered me about Horizon.  Shepard was just so blasé about the reunion.  Even when the Collector Ship takes off, that colonist (Delan?) was getting very aggravated, while Shepard (who had no way of knowing if Ash/Kai was on that ship or not) relaxedly told him to take a chill pill. 

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

I think that is what disappointed me the most. It was like Shep didn't feel anything. When Shepard saw that ship taking off he/she should have felt something. I swear I wanted to throw my controller at the t.v. And don't even get me started on the derpy dialogue  So yes there are many things that need to be resolved before ME3 unless BioWare is going to give us this epically long game that is going to resolve and tie up some of the issues with the ME2 plot.

[ExtremeOne]

Estelindis wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Estelindis wrote...
Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  
thats nice you want your Shepard to be all hugs and kisses but when 2 people basically crap all over my Shepard for no real reason then yeah i want to be very ruthless and get revenge 

Playing a character who is more than an armour-clad brick does not equal being all hugs and kisses.

If you don't mind me saying so, I think you're confusing annoyance re. your character being written into a corner with annoyance re. the characters of Ashley and Kaidan.  Considering how upset both of them were after Shepard's death, and how much they value loyalty to the Alliance, they want to believe Shepard isn't working with Cerberus.  Finding out otherwise is difficult for them, particularly considering that their experiences with and feelings regarding Shepard contribute to and interact with their feelings of loyalty to the Alliance.  They are naturally going to feel conflicted and emotional.  I fail to see how anyone could think that a reaction like theirs is justly punishable by death.

As far as I'm concerned, my Shepard was the chump on Horizon.  The reactions from Ash and Kai weren't perfect, but they take second place to "how you doin'?" after two years of mourning.  If we don't punish our Sheps for being badly written in that scene, why punish Ash/Kai?

That said, I'd understand if you wanted the option to be extremely hostile towards them.  That's just a roleplaying choice.  (Killing them, though, would push Shepard into properly psycho territory - if s/he isn't there already.)

  



yes its as if someone decided to put the hand cuffs on Shepard when it comes to Kaiden and Ashley and even Anderson. but yet he or her are able to be a utter ruthless solider when it comes to the rest of the game. but oh god we got to protect the alliance. The alliance turned its back on Shepard and sent spies to spy on him and the freaking game makes so there is no way to respond. Shepard was robbed of not being able to respond and its wrong and bull sh*t 

[ExtremeOne]

Badpie wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

(snip)

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

   


well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying. 

This was part of the reason I feel like they were handled badly on Horizon.  For people who didn't play ME1 they were just kind of like "who is this person and why is she yelling at me?"  And that's not really fair to the awesome characters they created for ME1.  

    


yeah bioware did a ****** poor job on filling us new comers in on the story of ME 1.