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[Badpie]

I'm trying not let my brain get to carried away with all the awesome ways they could further this story in Alliance/Ash/Kaidan/Anderson dlc. Because there is...so much. And it might not happen until ME3, or at all if they drop the ball with it.



Methinks all of this would make for an awesome full on expansion bridge the gap pack.

[sagefic]

Brodyaha wrote...

Does anybody have any dialogue suggestions?  What would Kaidan/Ashley say?  How would they react to Shepard?  As a friend?  As a romance?

Hmmm... I think:

• Much as some people hate Shep to be anything but a muscle-bound badass, the option to show vulnerability and humanity. Seriously, the chance to apologize at least. In ME1, Shepard relied on Kaidan/Ashley/Liara to give him/her feedback. They asked Shepard about his/her past. You can even confess to Liara about your nightmares from the beacon. That human side was totally lacking in ME2. True, you're perhaps hiding your feelings from Cerberus, but still. If the ME1 LI is back, then ME1 LI interactions, please.
• It would make sense to me that if they join Shepard for a mission, that there can be a convo about Horizon, but that a romantic interlude would not happen; maybe a kiss at the end for a imported faithful romance. Both would want to keep things professional on a mission, and this would keep you from having to write in endless kiss interrupts (though goodness knows some of us would take them if offered).
• Friend options will likely sound "alike" but i would love it if the writing was different for both. it really ought to be different for the romanced shep.
• There really ought to be some consequence of "cheating" and there ought to be a chance to send even friend ash/kaidan away. killing them would be totally psycho, but probably should be an option

[spirosz]

Did you guys ever talk to Kelly after Horizon? For example, I romanced Ashley in one playthrough and Kelly asked if I still loved her and depending on your dialogue choices, Shepard sounds pretty upset by the whole occurrence.

[ExtremeOne]

sagequeen wrote...

Rogue Unit wrote...

I'd rather see VS DLC than a bunch of useless firepacks and armors.

And thank you, fortunesque for engaging me. Sagequeen's post made me see some of the neglect the VS receives. For what it's worth I hope this thread convinces Bio-ware to make the DLC if they already aren't.

BYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

thanks rogue. that's appreciated.

@ fort: one of the things about that interview is that so far, it seems they *will* do that for liara. we'll have to see what the LotSB DLC does. i'm not sure if that ups my hope for a VS DLC or resolution or not, because i can only assume that "love interests" plural means Kaidan and Ashley. so...cautious hope? but still posting here to make it clear i want that VS stuff, too.

sir-edmund wrote...
I think one of the things that upset me the most in ME2 was being ex-communicated from the Alliance. It hurt to get kicked out of the cool kids' club and to be stonewalled at every turn. It's like Anderson didn't invite me to his birthday party, even though he invited Kaidan and Udina.

so this.

look, in the first game you either joined the Alliance cause 1) they saved you from a life in the streets, 2) they saved you after mindoir or 3) your parents were Alliance. so seriously, unless you are a VERY cold little person, you have very good reason to appreciate and like the Alliance at least in some capacity. you might hate the council (no matter how paragon you are), but i think for folks who played the first game, it is hard to dislike the Alliance.

Then in ME2 the Alliance is made out to be the bad guys - by Cerberus, no less. hardcore paragons are chafing under that, wanting an explanation. every shade of paragrade to renegon who still is loyal to the alliance is wanting answers, too. only the hardcore renegades, it seems, want to stay with Cerberus and they're just chomping at the bit to tell the Allinace to F off and kill ashley or kaidan. personally, i think a VS DLC is a perfect chance to set loyalties, get answers, and find out who will be at your back going into the final game. i assume ME3 will be a lot of tracking down how to kill the reapers info, so it would make sense to tie up this arc in a DLC, I think.

Anyhow, i agree with Brodyaha - hopefully if the devs are wondering what the fans would buy, this will make them think this way, and like fort said, if they already are leaning this way, it will be a big thumbs up. just wish we could know one way or the other.

  



I agree Bioware needs to find a way for  us to make choice between the Alliance or Cerberus and if you chose one that is the side you will be on in ME 3. 

[fortunesque]

spiros9110 wrote...

Did you guys ever talk to Kelly after Horizon? For example, I romanced Ashley in one playthrough and Kelly asked if I still loved her and depending on your dialogue choices, Shepard sounds pretty upset by the whole occurrence.

Unfortunately that's for every single Shepard after Horizon, regardless of if there was a romance or not. 

[Badpie]

Personally I'd like to have my Shepard be able to express that he still has feelings for Ash. I mean she had two years to move on with her life. He woke up and it might as well have been yesterday that he saw her. If I'm that guy it would be tearing me up on the inside a little and "how are you, Ash? It's been too long" doesn't freakin' cut it. I don't want anything schmoltzy. Just an option for both of them to express "I feel this way about you." "I also feel this way about you. Now let's go kick some butt."

spiros9110 wrote...

Did you guys ever talk to Kelly after Horizon? For example, I romanced Ashley in one playthrough and Kelly asked if I still loved her and depending on your dialogue choices, Shepard sounds pretty upset by the whole occurrence.

This was a nice a little thing.  It was something they did right.

Modifié par Badpie, 26 août 2010 - 02:35 .

[ExtremeOne]

sagequeen wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

Does anybody have any dialogue suggestions?  What would Kaidan/Ashley say?  How would they react to Shepard?  As a friend?  As a romance?

Hmmm... I think:

• Much as some people hate Shep to be anything but a muscle-bound badass, the option to show vulnerability and humanity. Seriously, the chance to apologize at least. In ME1, Shepard relied on Kaidan/Ashley/Liara to give him/her feedback. They asked Shepard about his/her past. You can even confess to Liara about your nightmares from the beacon. That human side was totally lacking in ME2. True, you're perhaps hiding your feelings from Cerberus, but still. If the ME1 LI is back, then ME1 LI interactions, please.
• It would make sense to me that if they join Shepard for a mission, that there can be a convo about Horizon, but that a romantic interlude would not happen; maybe a kiss at the end for a imported faithful romance. Both would want to keep things professional on a mission, and this would keep you from having to write in endless kiss interrupts (though goodness knows some of us would take them if offered).
• Friend options will likely sound "alike" but i would love it if the writing was different for both. it really ought to be different for the romanced shep.
• There really ought to be some consequence of "cheating" and there ought to be a chance to send even friend ash/kaidan away. killing them would be totally psycho, but probably should be an option

   



i do not like your 4th idea at all 

[Jade5233]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

(snip)

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

   


well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying. 

This was part of the reason I feel like they were handled badly on Horizon.  For people who didn't play ME1 they were just kind of like "who is this person and why is she yelling at me?"  And that's not really fair to the awesome characters they created for ME1.  

    


yeah bioware did a ****** poor job on filling us new comers in on the story of ME 1. 

That's part of our point about the DLC.
BioWare intended the game for newcomers as well--especially now with PS3 getting ME2 but not ME1.
New people don't know anything of Kaidan and Ashley except getting yelled at.  Those of us that are fans of those characters can get a bit more in their heads and understand why they are acting as they are.
But for the new player, its out of nowhere.
We'd like you all to be able to get to know those characters in a more reasonable setting.  DLC where the relationship between the Alliance and Shepard with these characters as the conduits--either going with the Alliance or not or staying neutral--would give a better understanding of those characters in working beside them on a mission DLC.  Ash is sarcastic and funny.  Kaidan is just a good guy and has awesome fighting ability--he is just a good person.  I want the new people to have the chance to see this, too, as well as for those of us who love the characters to get another chance to interact with them in a more positive way while waiting for the reunion promised in ME3 several years from now.

[Estelindis]

ExtremeOne wrote...
yes its as if someone decided to put the hand cuffs on Shepard when it comes to Kaiden and Ashley and even Anderson. but yet he or her are able to be a utter ruthless solider when it comes to the rest of the game. but oh god we got to protect the alliance. The alliance turned its back on Shepard and sent spies to spy on him and the freaking game makes so there is no way to respond. Shepard was robbed of not being able to respond and its wrong and bull sh*t

Indeed.  Choice in roleplaying is largely illusory when it comes to the big decisions - the kind where you'd get a completely different game if one different choice was made.  So, even if it'd be much more in-character for Shepard to reject Cerberus and go back to the Alliance, we can't.  The Alliance being a bit jerkish to us seems to be some kind of meta-justification for this, from Bioware's point of view.

Anyway, in terms of this DLC: while Ash and Kai are two very different characters, their duties as members of the Alliance military draw them into plausibly similar roles from ME2 onwards.  As with many people so far, I'd think any DLC related to them would need some kind of link to the Alliance.  But I live in hope that Bioware will surprise us with something fresh that none of us has thought of (but that is still awesome).  I'd happily settle for that post-Retribution Anderson idea, though...  It's a gateway to epicness!  (And I'm pretty sure it has fanfic ideas sprouting in more than one person reading this thread.)

ExtremeOne wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

• There
  really ought to be some consequence of "cheating" and there ought to be a
  chance to send even friend ash/kaidan away. killing them would be
  totally psycho, but probably should be an option

   
i do not like your 4th idea at all 

But I thought you didn't play ME1.  ME2-only Shepards do not come with ME1 romances, so by definition you can't cheat.  I don't see why you would object to the part of Sage's post I quoted.

Modifié par Estelindis, 26 août 2010 - 02:42 .

[Badpie]

Da Shadow Master wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Personally I'd like to have my Shepard be able to express that he still has feelings for Ash. I mean she had two years to move on with her life. He woke up and it might as well have been yesterday that he saw her. If I'm that guy it would be tearing me up on the inside a little and "how are you, Ash? It's been too long" doesn't freakin' cut it. I don't want anything schmoltzy. Just an option for both of them to express "I feel this way about you." "I also feel this way about you. Now let's go kick some butt."

Badpie as head writer for ME3.....that is all^_^

Hehehe.  I would write it just like that too.  *giggle* :innocent:

[ExtremeOne]

Jade5233 wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Badpie wrote...

Estelindis wrote...

(snip)

Shepard is tough, but s/he isn't just made of cardboard or concrete.  There is a bit of human uncertainty and vulnerability there too - we see that in scenes like the dejection at the lockers in ME1.  Your friend/lover/teammate has already seen some of that.  What's so wrong with showing some again?

  

THIS.  Shepard was barely a character in ME2.  He was just super tough guy bad ass do no wrong...guy.  I liked him in ME1 when he had moments of defeat and folks like Kaidan and Ashley telling him it would be okay.

<3

   


well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying. 

This was part of the reason I feel like they were handled badly on Horizon.  For people who didn't play ME1 they were just kind of like "who is this person and why is she yelling at me?"  And that's not really fair to the awesome characters they created for ME1.  

    


yeah bioware did a ****** poor job on filling us new comers in on the story of ME 1. 

That's part of our point about the DLC.
BioWare intended the game for newcomers as well--especially now with PS3 getting ME2 but not ME1.
New people don't know anything of Kaidan and Ashley except getting yelled at.  Those of us that are fans of those characters can get a bit more in their heads and understand why they are acting as they are.
But for the new player, its out of nowhere.
We'd like you all to be able to get to know those characters in a more reasonable setting.  DLC where the relationship between the Alliance and Shepard with these characters as the conduits--either going with the Alliance or not or staying neutral--would give a better understanding of those characters in working beside them on a mission DLC.  Ash is sarcastic and funny.  Kaidan is just a good guy and has awesome fighting ability--he is just a good person.  I want the new people to have the chance to see this, too, as well as for those of us who love the characters to get another chance to interact with them in a more positive way while waiting for the reunion promised in ME3 several years from now.

  


this dlc would help a lot. if there was some legit reason behind their actions on horizion then i am all for listening to them. 

[SilverRose208]

spiros9110 wrote...

Did you guys ever talk to Kelly after Horizon? For example, I romanced Ashley in one playthrough and Kelly asked if I still loved her and depending on your dialogue choices, Shepard sounds pretty upset by the whole occurrence.

Yes, but it's a day late and a dollar short, imo.  Shepard acting upset to someone who isn't a party in the whole affair is nice ... but a) it's also a dialogue option even if you didn't romance Ash/Kaidan or did a ME2 NG (which kind of cheapens the whole thing, imo) and  isn't something that Ash/Kaidan know about.  All they get to see is Replicant!Shep - and that doesn't do anything for the furthering of the relationship. 

Shepard needs a chance to explain him/herself to the person that he/she opened up to ME1 - and that can also be from a friendship perspective.  There are a lot of people out there who have Ash or Kaidan alive as a good friend to their Shepards, and without romancing, there's no letter - and without a letter, there's no semblance of understanding, no good wishes, no (imo) hope that things can be patched up.  I think there definitely needs to be some sort of reconciliation possible in a DLC so that everyone can start ME3 with the air already cleared - romance content aside.  If these characters are playing a major role in ME3 - as has been promised - it'll be much more difficult with all the bad blood and drama still lingering.

Also, I liked the game better when Shepard wasn't a replicant.

[fortunesque]

ExtremeOne wrote...
this dlc would help a lot. if there was some legit reason behind their actions on horizion then i am all for listening to them. 

If you play through the first game you find that Cerberus is technically a terrorist group that tests on non-consenting humans. 

[Estelindis]

At first, I liked the Kelly dialogue. (I mean, it was an acknowledgement of the relationship, so woohoo!) But then I realised it was out of character for my Shepard to confide emotionally in a member of Cerberus.



On the plus side, at least there are a multitude of possible ways to roleplay that little situation / conversation.

[Badpie]

I just realized this is in the no spoiler forum and we're talking about events in ME2. Should we ask to have it moved or....? I just don't want them busting in and going "spoilers! Thread closed!"

[Badpie]

fortunesque wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
this dlc would help a lot. if there was some legit reason behind their actions on horizion then i am all for listening to them. 

If you play through the first game you find that Cerberus is technically a terrorist group that tests on non-consenting humans. 

And you see some pretty ugly stuff that Cerberus did in ME1.  Cerberus is WITHOUT A DOUBT a Bad Guy in ME1 and not just in a "well they're kinda shady but they get things done" kind of way they made it out in ME2.  They were terrible!  And if you're a sole survivor they're the entire reason your unit got killed on Akuze.  They staged it.  On purpose and then did horrible things to people with tests.  

[ExtremeOne]

[quote]Estelindis wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...
yes its as if someone decided to put the hand cuffs on Shepard when it comes to Kaiden and Ashley and even Anderson. but yet he or her are able to be a utter ruthless solider when it comes to the rest of the game. but oh god we got to protect the alliance. The alliance turned its back on Shepard and sent spies to spy on him and the freaking game makes so there is no way to respond. Shepard was robbed of not being able to respond and its wrong and bull sh*t
[/quote]
Indeed.  Choice in roleplaying is largely illusory when it comes to the big decisions - the kind where you'd get a completely different game if one different choice was made.  So, even if it'd be much more in-character for Shepard to reject Cerberus and go back to the Alliance, we can't.  The Alliance being a bit jerkish to us seems to be some kind of meta-justification for this, from Bioware's point of view.

Anyway, in terms of this DLC: while Ash and Kai are two very different characters, their duties as members of the Alliance military draw them into plausibly similar roles from ME2 onwards.  As with many people so far, I'd think any DLC related to them would need some kind of link to the Alliance.  But I live in hope that Bioware will surprise us with something fresh that none of us has thought of (but that is still awesome).  I'd happily settle for that post-Retribution Anderson idea, though...  It's a gateway to epicness!  (And I'm pretty sure it has fanfic ideas sprouting in more than one person reading this thread.)

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...
[quote]sagequeen wrote...

• There
  really ought to be some consequence of "cheating" and there ought to be a
  chance to send even friend ash/kaidan away. killing them would be
  totally psycho, but probably should be an option

[/quote]    
i do not like your 4th idea at all 
[/quote]
But I thought you didn't play ME1.  ME2-only Shepards do not come with ME1 romances, so by definition you can't cheat.  I don't see why you would object to the part of Sage's post I quoted.



[/quote 



i agree 

Modifié par ExtremeOne, 26 août 2010 - 02:49 .

[sagefic]

ExtremeOne wrote...

sagequeen wrote...

*snip*

• There really ought to be some consequence of "cheating" and there ought to be a chance to send even friend ash/kaidan away. killing them would be totally psycho, but probably should be an option

   



i do not like your 4th idea at all 

I have suggested 3 things there: to which were you referring? Because I do believe that the option to shoot Ashley or Kaidan was what you wanted.

spiros9110 wrote...

Did you guys ever talk to Kelly after Horizon? For example, I romanced Ashley in one playthrough and Kelly asked if I still loved her and depending on your dialogue choices, Shepard sounds pretty upset by the whole occurrence.

yes. i would rather have talked to garrus or tali, though. but that was nice.

[siriusrambles]

ExtremeOne wrote...
well since i did not play all of ME 1. i understand what you are saying.

yeah bioware did a ****** poor job on filling us new comers in on the story of ME 1.

i'd suggest finishing me1 then your opinion may change concerning ash and kaidan.  they have been integral to the plot since the start of the series.  you definitely are missing out playing the games out of order and not even completing the first. 

a dlc about these two characters could offer you background information on them.  also, afford you the opportunity to acquaint yourself with their situation and viewpoints.

[Acero Azul]

 I would like to see Kaiden come back, at first I didn't really like him as a character until I used him as a squadmate for a while. He was one of the best squadmates and I was pretty upset that you couldn't use him as a squadmate in ME2.

[Chala]

I sopport this, but... what about wrex? I could sell my soul for a dlc about him

[ExtremeOne]

fortunesque wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...
this dlc would help a lot. if there was some legit reason behind their actions on horizion then i am all for listening to them. 

If you play through the first game you find that Cerberus is technically a terrorist group that tests on non-consenting humans. 

      




well i ask this then in Mass Effect 2 who wants to stop the Collectors and fight the reapers. Its clear the alliance nor the so called human lead Council want to fight the Collectors or the reapers. so who is it left to then. I mean Shepard can not do it alone. so yeah what ever Cerberus did in ME 1 they seem to be the only ones who want to wage war on  the Collectors or the reapers.