3512 réponses à ce sujet

[wicked117]

Kaidan is too. That's one of the reasons why I said that their reaction was more believable.

[Tazzmission]

pwner had a cool idea. introduce the vs in the shepard trial and have vs testify against him. now i love that idea because i canme up with a way on how they can introduce a paragon/renegade option into that instead of making it one giant cutscene with no options

[Knightsire]

This is looking bad if Ashley and Kaiden don't show up as anything more than brief cameos in ME3 or maybe somehow get eliminated early in the story. Why does everyone feel that the both of them coming back is such a sure thing?

[Estelindis]

Tazzmission wrote...

pwner had a cool idea. introduce the vs in the shepard trial and have vs testify against him. now i love that idea because i canme up with a way on how they can introduce a paragon/renegade option into that instead of making it one giant cutscene with no options

Personally, I like the idea of Ashley or Kaidan testifying at Shepard's trial, except that I'd see their evidence as ultimately supporting Shepard because they were witnesses to everything related to the Reapers that Shepard saw in ME1. Really, when you think about it, it's the truth of the Reaper threat that will really go on trial. If the threat was real, then the batarians in that system would have been killed by the Reapers if they weren't killed by the relay explosion.

Knightsire wrote...

This is looking bad if Ashley and Kaiden don't show up as anything more than brief cameos in ME3 or maybe somehow get eliminated early in the story. Why does everyone feel that the both of them coming back is such a sure thing?

This is why: 

Quaay wrote...

Yes, Casey Hudson promised they'd be meaningful in ME3.

"CaseyH-ME2: While Mass Effect fans have grown to love our characters, you can imagine that after spending years crafting them, we have at least as much of an attachment to them. So it's definitely not a case of the team disregarding player's decisions with them or interest in those characters - in fact, it's the opposite...

CaseyH-ME2: 
We actually want to make sure these characters survive the ME2 story, which ultimately is a suicide mission: some of your crew will almost certainly die. Some of the ME1 characters are back, and recruitable (more than you might think), and the ones that aren't still play an important role in the story and will be around for ME3 - which we can't say for the new characters.

CaseyH-ME2: 
Another important thing to consider is that much of the fun of ME1 was the discovery of new people and places. If we made ME2 out of the same characters, you'd miss out of the fun of that discovery.

CaseyH-ME2: 
Finally, if you are worried about the role of the ME1 love interest in the trilogy, consider that the romance itself is told across the trilogy, in 3 acts. Apply the 3-act concept to what's happening in your relationship with them, and 
you might guess where we're going with it."

From the ME2 Live Chat here forums.bestbuy.com/t5/Gaming-Gadgets-eReaders/Mass-Effect-2-Live-Chat-Transcript/td-p/89183

See also here and here.  

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 mars 2011 - 04:11 .

[Tazzmission]

Estelindis wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

pwner had a cool idea. introduce the vs in the shepard trial and have vs testify against him. now i love that idea because i canme up with a way on how they can introduce a paragon/renegade option into that instead of making it one giant cutscene with no options

Personally, I like the idea of Ashley or Kaidan testifying at Shepard's trial, except that I'd see their evidence as ultimately supporting Shepard because they were witnesses to everything related to the Reapers that Shepard saw in ME1. Really, when you think about it, it's the truth of the Reaper threat that will really go on trial. If the threat was real, then the batarians in that system would have been killed by the Reapers if they weren't killed by the relay explosion.

but dont forget shepard has liara with the shadow broker base.


i can see this turning into a major epic way when it comes to the do you trust me or us option. imagine ashley testifying that she met shepard on horizon and he told her he worked for cerbrus, now also imagine shepards paragon option to that statement he could say liara and i took the shadow broker down and we have proof, renegade option can have shepard yell out at her in court and say you sold me out to dry you knew the truth as to what happened on horizon. imagine liara coming in with the evidence from sb base and the anger brews in ashley do to liara winning shepards love from me1. it all boils down to the old team may say things but work together wile still iffy

[Estelindis]

Tazzmission wrote...

but dont forget shepard has liara with the shadow broker base.

i can see this turning into a major epic way when it comes to the do you trust me or us option. imagine ashley testifying that she met shepard on horizon and he told her he worked for cerbrus, now also imagine shepards paragon option to that statement he could say liara and i took the shadow broker down and we have proof, renegade option can have shepard yell out at her in court and say you sold me out to dry you knew the truth as to what happened on horizon. imagine liara coming in with the evidence from sb base and the anger brews in ashley do to liara winning shepards love from me1. it all boils down to the old team may say things but work together wile still iffy

Except that if you talk to Anderson after Horizon he'll tell you that Ashley or Kaidan's report confirmed what you said about Horizon.  This means that in the heat of the moment, in the confusion of meeting Shepard again but not trusting Cerberus, Ashley couldn't be sure if Shepard was right or had been misled.  Afterwards, though, she thought about it and analysed the evidence and seems to agree with Shep's take on things re. the Collectors and the Reapers.  So why would she denounce Shepard at this trial?  I understand that for those who prefer Liara your version of things seems more dramatic and appropriate.  But for quite a few of us, Liara will never win Shepard's love away from Ashley or Kaidan.  Indeed, I think that Ash/Kai's reaction to Shepard's return could have been alleviated/softened if Liara had only told them to expect Shepard to come back (but she didn't, instead leaving them to mourn for two years - though, of course, Liara didn't know if Project Lazarus would be 100% successful).  But, by all means, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 mars 2011 - 04:26 .

[Tazzmission]

Estelindis wrote...

Tazzmission wrote...

but dont forget shepard has liara with the shadow broker base.

i can see this turning into a major epic way when it comes to the do you trust me or us option. imagine ashley testifying that she met shepard on horizon and he told her he worked for cerbrus, now also imagine shepards paragon option to that statement he could say liara and i took the shadow broker down and we have proof, renegade option can have shepard yell out at her in court and say you sold me out to dry you knew the truth as to what happened on horizon. imagine liara coming in with the evidence from sb base and the anger brews in ashley do to liara winning shepards love from me1. it all boils down to the old team may say things but work together wile still iffy

Except that if you talk to Anderson after Horizon he'll tell you that Ashley or Kaidan's report confirmed what you said about Horizon.  This means that in the heat of the moment, in the confusion of meeting Shepard again but not trusting Cerberus, Ashley couldn't be sure if Shepard was right or had been misled.  Afterwards, though, she thought about it and analysed the evidence and seems to agree with Shep's take on things re. the Collectors and the Reapers.  So why would she denounce Shepard at this trial?  I understand that for those who prefer Liara your version of things seems more dramatic and appropriate.  But for quite a few of us, Liara will never win Shepard's love away from Ashley or Kaidan.  Indeed, I think that Ash/Kai's reaction to Shepard's return could have been alleviated/softened if Liara had only told them to expect Shepard to come back (but she didn't, instead leaving them to mourn for two years - though, of course, Liara didn't know if Project Lazarus would be 100% successful).  But, by all means, thank you for sharing your thoughts.

all i can say is reports can get lost if someone wants them to.... i like the idea of a possible conspiracey theory type of set up for shepard by the council wether hes a spectre or not. remember how angry the turrian councilman was when we blew up sarens base? imagine how hed react before the trial of hearing of destroying a batarian system wile allighned with cerbrus. they can twist what they know around to have shepard be the fall down guy

[Estelindis]

Tazzmission wrote...

all i can say is reports can get lost if someone wants them to....

Of course, but Kaidan or Ashley will still know what they wrote in that report and why they wrote it  - the reason I mention the report is because of what it says about their underlying sympathetic attitude towards Shepard and the Reaper threat (vs. the hostile attitude you think they'd take in a trial).

I'd love to know what role other fans think Kaidan or Ashley could play in Shepard's trial.  

Tazzmission wrote...
i like the idea of a possible conspiracey theory type of set up for shepard by the council wether hes a spectre or not. remember how angry the turrian councilman was when we blew up sarens base? imagine how hed react before the trial of hearing of destroying a batarian system wile allighned with cerbrus. they can twist what they know around to have shepard be the fall down guy

Who doesn't love the way the turian councillor twists words and dismisses claims?    Honestly, if we could have one bonus squadmate for ME3 (not including Ash/Kai, who should be squaddies as standard!), it would be the turian councillor.  My Shepard would take him on every mission and force him to witness the truth!  She'd kidnap him if he refused to come with her.  She may be a paragon, but for him she'd make an extremely renegade exception.  

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 mars 2011 - 04:56 .

[wicked117]

 lol kidnapping the turian councilor would be epic:wizard: I like this idea

[Geirahod]

wicked117 wrote...

 lol kidnapping the turian councilor would be epic:wizard: I like this idea

Ah yes, "kidnapping", we have dismissed that claim.

Modifié par Geirahod, 31 mars 2011 - 04:55 .

[Estelindis]

 Glad you like the idea.    The way I see it, you'd have to keep the turian councilor alive for the whole of ME3 after you kidnap him, as he might miss some crucial evidence before you could medigel him back to health.  There'd be a special achievement for it if you managed to do so.  It'd be a pain to get, but the feeling of intense victory over his dismissal skills would be worth it!  
...
So yeah, Ashley and Kaidan, right?  :innocent:  Back on-topic, one of the strengths of the ME2 plot structure was how much more personal and character-oriented it was due to the recruitment and loyalty missions.  However, a weakness was that it sometimes felt like taking care of your crew's personal problems was taking priority over saving the galaxy.  So my question is this: what kind of missions could focus on issues very important and personal to Ashley or Kaidan without losing sight of the ultimate goal to protect galactic life?

[Fiery Phoenix]

A couple of reused pictures to ensure my support:

[JustHonest]

ugh come on guys we know how this plays out...attachment only leads to the dark side...wait wrong game sorry

[Eludajae]

To be honest after what a complete **** he was to my Shepard, I think if he is part of the possible companions we should have the option to tell him to get lost.

[Tilarta]

Actually, Admiral Hackett did talk about a trial and Shepherd having to go to defend her/himself.
Mind you, my response wasn't very diplomatic,
Renegade No.

My Shepherd is kindof acting like a Pirate Captain now, having told Cerberus to take a hike and expressing similar sentiments to the Council.

They're not above doing favors for the friends, but they don't answer to any official authority anymore.

I'm wondering how that will play out in Mass Effect 3.

They send a small fleet to "extricate" Commander Shepherd for the trial.

Kelly: We have an urgent message from the fleet commander.
Shepherd: Open channel.
Fleet Commander: Commander Shepherd, we have orders to bring you in for trial and we won't take no for an answer.
Shepherd: See that rock out there? Garrus, fire the main gun.
EDI: The fleet is departing. It appears that they did take our no for an answer.
Joker: Their ships have pretty taillights.

Basically, Shepherd commands the most advanced and heavily armed stealth ship in the galaxy, they're not exactly going to be easy to find.
Or defeat if they are found.
And if the Normandy is orbiting the Shadow Broker planet, that's 10 times as hard to find......


Mind you, I'm expecting that trial scene with the VS we were anticipating is being moved to ME3.
Depending on how the Horizon meeting played out, the VS could be for you, neutral or against you.
I was as friendly as possible, so I'm hoping Ashley is on my side.

Modifié par Tilarta, 31 mars 2011 - 10:21 .

[Clonedzero]

DPSSOC wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...
her being all "oh you're with cerberus? well im leaving then" without letting me explain or show her whats been going on was insane, made me HATE ashley to the point where i'd like to kill her off.

Shepard does explain, badly.

VS: Where have you been?  Why didn't you contact me?
S: I was in a coma while Cerberus rebuilt me.
VS: You're with Cerberus
S: Yeah but it's cool.  The Collectors are abducting humans for the Reapers and we're stopping them.
VS: How do you know the Collectors are working for the Reapers
S: Cerberus told me
VS: What if they're lying to you?
S: They wouldn't do that turns to Miranda and JacobI right guys?
VS: I can't believe you're working with terrorists, that you trust them, what if they did something to you.
S: No really it's all cool I talked to their boss and everything.
VS: Whatever I'm reporting back to the Alliance, goodbye Shepard, stay safe
S: Bye.

Clonedzero wrote...
i dunno how anyone can support kaiden / ashley after that reunion scene. seriously made me want to stab a screwdriver into their neck or something.

i want that kind of reaction available to my shepard. like "oh NOW you want to help? well screw you. i coulda used your help against the collectors but you got all uppity for no reason!"

I think Garrus and Tali set up an unrealistic expectation.  Imagine how you'd react if someone you know, someone you cared for, died and then showed up 2 years later acting like nothing happened.  2 years you think they're dead and they just waltz in like they've only been gone for a few days.  Might I say you'd be rather upset, might I add rightly so.  The VS is the only one who responds in a real, understandable way.  Garrus, Tali, Wrex, and Anderson just kind of shrug off the fact you're back without a second thought.  They don't ask you what you've been doing for the past 2 years, why you're with Cerberus, why you haven't gotten in touch before now, they just kind of go, "Hey Shepard's back." and move on.  That's great cause it keeps the story moving but no real person would just shrug off "you died 2 years ago and now you're back" without a mountain of questions and skepticism.

if someone i really cared about died and showed up 2 years later how would i react? well i'd probably be willing to listen to an explaination instead of stubbornly rushing off after a short conversation. i'd want details, i'd want them to tell me what was going on. i'd want to see what they were doing.  i most certainly wouldnt accuse them of being mind controlled and run off in a huff.

its not like anyone needed to rush to be anywhere, why not sit down and actually discuss it? if someone i knew died and came back 2 years later i'd want a really long detailed explaination.

she didn't really give him a chance to explain.

she was hostile to every answer he gave and ran off without allowing any full explaination. she didnt let you show you any proof of the reaper / collector connection. she didn't let you defend yourself. it was ridiculous. i understand them being shocked, but accusing you of being a terrorist of being used without any evidence is crazy.

the VS's reaction on horizon is inexcusable. seriously, she called me a terrrorist, didnt let me defend myself and ran off back to the alliance without any explaination or length discussion.

if i cant chew them out for it, i dont want them to return.

[Lord Zeuss]

@Clonedzero: I'm going to use Badpie's patented line at this time: Shepard and Ashley/Kaidan were Mutually Stupid™. Both parties could and should have handled the situation better than they did. And quite frankly, that whole scene could and should have been written a whole lot better than it was. Which is the entire reason we want it to be properly addressed by a rational discussion between two adults in Mass Effect 3.

[DPSSOC]

Clonedzero wrote...
if someone i really cared about died and showed up 2 years later how would i react? well i'd probably be willing to listen to an explaination instead of stubbornly rushing off after a short conversation. i'd want details, i'd want them to tell me what was going on. i'd want to see what they were doing.  i most certainly wouldnt accuse them of being mind controlled and run off in a huff.

its not like anyone needed to rush to be anywhere, why not sit down and actually discuss it? if someone i knew died and came back 2 years later i'd want a really long detailed explaination.

she didn't really give him a chance to explain.

She gave him plenty chance to explain.  His explanation was, "I died and got brought back to life by a criminal organization to fight the Reapers."  Surprise surprise she doesn't buy it.  We know the truth but it's more likely (and I really wish more characters would have jumped on it) that that's just a really weak excuse.  What's more likely you died, had your body recovered by mercenaries, sold to the Shadow Broker, recovered by Liara and ressurected by Cerberus; or that you are a member of a criminal organization and a traitor to the Alliance who faked their death.

Clonedzero wrote...
she was hostile to every answer he gave and ran off without allowing any full explaination. she didnt let you show you any proof of the reaper / collector connection. she didn't let you defend yourself. it was ridiculous. i understand them being shocked, but accusing you of being a terrorist of being used without any evidence is crazy.

She's hostile because Shepard behaves like nothing happened, like you stepped out for a few hours rather than years.  She on the other hand has had to grieve over your loss, put up with 2 years of the Council and Alliance slandering you unable to do anything about it, and probably worst of all just when she'd found a CO who didn't care about her family history, who'd give her a fair shot, they're ripped away and she's back where she started.  Then after all of that you have the balls to waltz in like nothing happened?  Pile that on top of what just happened to the colony and Shepard's plot armour is probably the only thing that kept her from blowing your brains out.

Clonedzero wrote...
if i cant chew them out for it, i dont want them to return.

Why chew them out?  They made a mistake, they were in a highly emotional situation and reacted badly, can you honestly say you've never done the same?  Also keep in mind that you weren't any better.  Rather than acknowledge that this is tough on her (you being back from the dead) you just push on, demanding she come to terms with it and move on already.

How would you feel if they show up, apologize for how they reacted on Horizon, and sincerely want to know what happened.

Note: All defences of Ash in this post also apply to Kaidan.  We take our death and ressurrection in stride, they shouldn't be expected to (and IMO nobody but Liara should at all, maybe Wrex).

[jeweledleah]

see all these reactions people have about Horizon without even thinking it through is why so many VS fans hate horizon, and wanted some sort of vindication to how virmire survivor was portrayed in game vs every other character in the game. you see - if they were acting truly in character - they would have listened more, longer, they would have given shepard more chance to explain. in a perfect world - that meeting would have gone like something you get on Freedom's progress with Tali.

in a perfect world Shepard wouldn't have acted like a tongue tied idiot as much, wouldn't have acted like he/she were just away on a mission, instead of being dead for 2 years and then suddenly coming back to life, would have explained Cerberus connection better (you know I really hate all these options you get about saying how Cerberus have changed - there's no clear evidence that they actually have, but every time TIM sets you up, every new project of theirs you run across - you only see that no, they haven't changed)

for all the bad writing on Horizon? I can understand VS's reaction a hell of a lot better then Shepard's behavior. we were pretty blatantly set up to dump them with all the crappy dialog choices, and you bought straight into it.

what I'd like to see in ME3 is a chance for Shepard, yes Shepard to apologize right back and finally give those explanations that somehow didn't happen on Horizon or after Horizon.

[LadyJaneGrey]

jeweledleah wrote...
I can understand VS's reaction a hell of a lot better then Shepard's behavior.

Hehe.  When Ashley first said "That's it?  That's all you can say?" and I saw Shepard's dialogue choices, I expected my Shep to look up and over her shoulder to ask the same thing of Bioware.

[Estelindis]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Hehe.  When Ashley first said "That's it?  That's all you can say?" and I saw Shepard's dialogue choices, I expected my Shep to look up and over her shoulder to ask the same thing of Bioware.

Agreed, 100%.  The dialogue choices Shepard was given were a mix of the inadequate and the inappropriate.

Modifié par Estelindis, 31 mars 2011 - 04:28 .

[LadyJaneGrey]

I'll think more on suggestions once my brain wakes up a bit more, but a point that might need to be in the op is:

We're not asking Bioware to make every player's Shepard be best friends with Kaidan and Ashley.  Having a fixed attitude in any of Shepard's relationships bites; there still need to be dialogue options for Shepards who don't like like the characters.  Choice is good.  

[Clonedzero]

well yeah, shepard didn't fully explain himself but he wasn't given too much of an opportunity. it was a fairly short conversation and VS responds with hostility throughout the entire thing. personally i felt completely betrayed by them. i think its silly to defend the VS for how badly they react to shepard. she called me a terrorist...seriously... i wanted a renegade interrupt to slap some sense into the woman. i mean seriously, she rushes off to report to the alliance without allowing me the chance to explain everything to her in detail. i asked her to join and she pretty much called me a traitor. thats messed up on a ton of levels.

this isn't a VS support thread either so me hating the VS due to them bailing on you on horizon is fine. i want the VS to be in ME3 i just really want a heated confrontational fight where i can yell at them alot. i think that would be absolutely great

[jeweledleah]

as long as we get the choices of how the confrontation goes, I'm all for various choices. I just don't want to be railroaded again, like they did with Horizon. its all fine and dandy for a DLC that's basically an explanation of a canon story, but when it comes to relationships between characters? railroading is not good.

edited to add - hostility starts when Shepards acts like nothing happened in their first responce. and its understandable even if you were only justfriends, and especialy if you have familiar faces (like Garrus) in your squad.

Modifié par jeweledleah, 31 mars 2011 - 04:25 .

[Estelindis]

Exactly. I support Shepard having the freedom to have an angry argument with the VS or to be sympathetic and say "I understand why you felt that way, I'm sorry you were hurt, and I still care about you."