3512 réponses à ce sujet

[Chignon]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

Hey guys,
Sorry for this somewhat abrupt interruption but now that I'm playing ME1 again, is the doctor that Kaidan has a casual date with the one that you save early on in ME1? If this was discussed earlier and I missed it, my apologies.

We don't know, Flies. I think it is never stated just who the Citadel doctor is.

Phobius9 wrote...

"I for one, do not want to see her just return to the original roots with no explanation and just get turned into a ridiculous caricature of what people with bad spelling and serious aggression issues keep labeling her as in youtube comments, I want to see her character arc fleshed out and given the air time that it properly deserves."

This.

I agree. And the same goes for Kaidan.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Flies_by_Handles: Nowhere is the Citadel doctor named.

Edit: Ninjaed by Chignon. 

Modifié par LadyJaneGrey, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:00 .

[sir-edmund]

Flies_by_Handles wrote...

Hey guys,
Sorry for this somewhat abrupt interruption but now that I'm playing ME1 again, is the doctor that Kaidan has a casual date with the one that you save early on in ME1? If this was discussed earlier and I missed it, my apologies.

I was wondering that myself, I don't think the games give an indication either way. I tend to think not, as he probably would have referred to her by name if Shepard had already met her. Unless, you know, he was afraid Shepard might go after her.

[Hopefire]

The doctor from the Citadel? You mean Dr. Chloe Michel, the one that you meet while recruiting Garrus in ME1? She'll actually send you an e-mail in ME2 if you helped her in ME1 with the people trying to blackmail her. Or are you talking about a different doctor?

[Mox Ruuga]

Hopefire wrote...

The doctor from the Citadel? You mean Dr. Chloe Michel, the one that you meet while recruiting Garrus in ME1? She'll actually send you an e-mail in ME2 if you helped her in ME1 with the people trying to blackmail her. Or are you talking about a different doctor?

I don't think that's the one.

Ugh, they derailed poor Dr. Michel into yet another Garrus fangirl in ME2. The whole sudden explosion of xenophilia throughout the galaxy was one of my least favorite fanservice panderings from the devs. Hopefully it gets toned down in ME3...

[Mox Ruuga]

Brodyaha wrote...

Snipped for length, but QFT.
I personally haven't played any Ash VS saves to Horizon yet, but I've heard she reverts back to her, "I don't like aliens," stance.  It's made even worse when her "xenophobia," is on the Mass Effect 2 website.  When I read that I was mad.  It's become her defining trait and why a lot of people hate her.
And I would love to see her freed from her grandfather's mistake (which I don't think was a mistake given the circumstances).  If the Alliance is doing that to her, then they really don't deserve to be a great force in the world.
I would like to see that rectified in DLC.  Ashley was willing to work with salarians on Virmire, she's not xenophobic like she's made out to be.  And I would love to hear her say to some Alliance chap, "I'm not my granfather, a**hole! I'm Operations Chief Ashley Williams, and I'm an Alliance officer like you!"

Doesn't she say something like "You know me skipper, I don' t aliens either but... Cerberus?"

Must be Walters' writing destroying established characters once again, since L'Etoile clearly didn't write her as an alien hater, just suspicious of their motives. The whole fricking "Bear and Dog" analogy that dim bulbs gave her so much heat for was made in DEFENCE of the council. With it, she meant that Council would sacrifice Alliance (the dog) against a "bear", and that she understood why they would do it, adding that it wouldn't be racist from the COUNCIL to act like that.

And now that L'Etoile left, Ashley "doesn't like aliens".

Modifié par Mox Ruuga, 30 septembre 2010 - 12:42 .

[Chignon]

Mox Ruuga wrote...

Brodyaha wrote...

*snip*

Doesn't she say something like "You know me skipper, I don' t aliens either but... Cerberus?"

Must be Walters' writing destroying established characters once again, since L'Etoile clearly didn't write her as an alien hater, just suspicious of their motives. The whole fricking "Bear and Dog" analogy that dim bulbs gave her so much heat for was made in DEFENCE of the council. With it, she meant that Council would sacrifice Alliance (the dog) against a "bear", and that she understood why they would do it, adding that it wouldn't be racist from the COUNCIL to act like that.

And now that L'Etoile left, Ashley "doesn't like aliens".

This is very out of character for Ashley - even if you chose not to paragon her. It was never about liking or disliking aliens with her, or at least that was my impression. It's very jarring.

Modifié par Chignon, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:19 .

[GodWood]

"Human or alien, we're all animals" ~ Ash.

[Chignon]

I hope Bioware will fix this issue. I can only imagine how the MShep players who paragoned her must have felt after Horizon.

[sagefic]

Phobius9 wrote...

"I for one, do not want to see her just return to the original roots with no explanation and just get turned into a ridiculous caricature of what people with bad spelling and serious aggression issues keep labeling her as in youtube comments, I want to see her character arc fleshed out and given the air time that it properly deserves."

This.

also that.

Ashley gets so much hate - Kaidan gets a lot of hate, too. Both were characters that required a little bit of "listening time" before actually coming to like them for most players. I think a lot of us are here because we did that extra listening and came to love them. Horizon did NOTHING to help their cause, either, as new folks immediately hated or ignored them and old fans who hadn't thought much of them now hated them.

A few things I think could help with that:

1) Awesome intro cinematics. Part of why Liara looked so dang good in LotSB was her rockin' cinematics. She got out from behind the desk and threw biotic power all over the place. People who never took the time to talk to her much (including me) woke up and paid a little more attention to her after that.

2) A new outfit. Lame, but true, Liara's new outfit had people talking. Kaidan's Horizon armor is fine, but Ashley could use a change. However, keeping with her personality, it should not be overly sexualized. She's a Marine, first and foremost. (edit: though that tin-foil miniskirt might make an appearance with romanced shep and i don't think anyone would complain)

3) Excellent convo/banter. "Truck." "I KNOW!" - seriously, the banter in LotSB was terrific and made Liara sound as funny and intelligent as she is lovely. It brought her back to the forefront as your friend.  LotSB assumed that you knew Liara from way back and the characters fell into these awesome moments of humor and then of tense "where are we now?"  It was so classic buddy film banter (or lover banter, as the case may be). Tali and Garrus made my day in ME2 because the dialog was also just more easy with them - there was not that "Cerberus wha?" stuff with the other folks. They treat you like old buddies and you want to do the same back to them. While Horizon can't be completely gotten over at once, if, as things get going, the "brothers/sisters/former lover-in arms" role came out, that would be cool. Kaidan was at your back from the very start, Ashley, from the first mission. They were there when the whole thing got started and for many of us, were there right until the end. whatever issues have to get dealt with, that would be nice to see shep and the VS fall into their friendship again.

4) with that: Let their humor shine through. Both are really funny, but unless you take them in the squad, you don't see that. a lot of people dump the humans the moment the aliens show up. more moments of their respective humor (ashley's sly teasing, kaidan's deadpan sarcasm) would be lovely.

5) Let their personalities shine and develop without a retcon. Liara's odd behavior in ME2 was explained in LotSB and we went on and her sweet, slightly awkward shyness came out. there was no retcon - instead, her sharper edge now fits being a deadly info broker. I say, execellent. Ashley is suspicious of aliens (i think rightly so in most cases) and religious. I would hate to see that changed about her. But a moment or two to explain it a little, to see how she's grown and changed over the years and her faith helped her through shep's death and she's come to respect aliens more - yeah, cool. Kaidan was never "whiny" or "boring" to my mind, but a nod to his stoic nature or his introversion or his headaches (he never did mention them to my sheps), would also be nice. that, of course, requires them getting some different dialog options, which is necessary to make them awesome - since their different dialog options made them so awesome in ME1 anyhow.

6) Show us why humans and the Alliance are awesome. ME1 set up the alien vs. human divide well. Most people thought aliens were cool, hence, "humans are boring" and by extension, the alliance squaddies. ME2 did not show the alliance in a very good light. personally, i LOVED the military aspects of ME1. i felt like shep was a little lost without it as a mere hired gun in ME2. I want to go back to seeing why the Alliance rocks (faults and all, they did kick a** at the battle of the citadel. remember THOSE cinematics?). Ash and Kaidan are Marines - some of the best - and that makes them unique out of all of our Cerberus allies with all their various reasons for joining a (once/still - take your pick) terrorist organization. I want to see them shine AS MARINES.

anyhow, a few random thoughts there. Ash and Kaidan were and are awesome characters, but I cannot count the number of times I seen hate or "i never liked them much" followed by a "well, i never took them anywhere in my party." Those people's loss, for sure, but I would love to see a VS DLC go a long way to showing everyone why Kaidan/Ashley are worth knowing.

Modifié par sagequeen, 30 septembre 2010 - 01:47 .

[Quaay]

Hell yea. Agree with Sage

[Chignon]

Excellent post, sagequeen, as always.

sagequeen wrote...

Ashley gets so much hate - Kaidan gets a lot of hate, too. Both were characters that required a little bit of "listening time" before actually coming to like them for most players. I think a lot of us are here because we did that extra listening and came to love them. Horizon did NOTHING to help their cause, either, as new folks immediately hated or ignored them and old fans who hadn't thought much of them now hated them.

I played ME2 first and was interested in them because of Horizon - putting the horrible lines for both Shepard and Kaidan/Ashley aside for one moment.

It just seems like some people are more comfortable with sulking and pouting over how Kaidan/Ash "insulted" their Shepard by, God forbid, questioning him/her and, oh no, standing up for their own beliefs instead of instantly dropping everything including their responsibilities to the Alliance just to be with Shepard.

[Jade5233]

Yes. I second that about Sage's post.

I love the part about Kaidan's deadpan sarcasm. Adds to that sultry thing that he has going on--if men can be described as sultry.

[Skyblade012]

Chignon wrote...

Excellent post, sagequeen, as always.

sagequeen wrote...

Ashley gets so much hate - Kaidan gets a lot of hate, too. Both were characters that required a little bit of "listening time" before actually coming to like them for most players. I think a lot of us are here because we did that extra listening and came to love them. Horizon did NOTHING to help their cause, either, as new folks immediately hated or ignored them and old fans who hadn't thought much of them now hated them.

I played ME2 first and was interested in them because of Horizon - putting the horrible lines for both Shepard and Kaidan/Ashley aside for one moment.

It just seems like some people are more comfortable with sulking and pouting over how Kaidan/Ash "insulted" their Shepard by, God forbid, questioning him/her and, oh no, standing up for their own beliefs instead of instantly dropping everything including their responsibilities to the Alliance just to be with Shepard.

Actually, I think it's more the fact that the "old friends" of Shepard are basically the only people in the game who can't be persuaded or convinced.  When you can change the mind of total renegades, or die hard enemies, but you can't do anything at all to persuade these characters, it's very jarring.

The scene was handled terribly.  They had plenty of options, but that one was just stupid.  Shepard fights through the colony, activates the defense towers to save the place, including Ash/Kaiden, and still gets accused of being a traitor who, at best, doesn't know what they're doing.

I mean, they couldn't have come with you anyway, they're still serving the Alliance, and have duties there (last time, they were assigned to your crew).  But you could at least have one dialogue option where they don't treat you like a total jerk.

[Chignon]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Actually, I think it's more the fact that the "old friends" of Shepard are basically the only people in the game who can't be persuaded or convinced.  When you can change the mind of total renegades, or die hard enemies, but you can't do anything at all to persuade these characters, it's very jarring.

The scene was handled terribly.  They had plenty of options, but that one was just stupid.  Shepard fights through the colony, activates the defense towers to save the place, including Ash/Kaiden, and still gets accused of being a traitor who, at best, doesn't know what they're doing.

I mean, they couldn't have come with you anyway, they're still serving the Alliance, and have duties there (last time, they were assigned to your crew).  But you could at least have one dialogue option where they don't treat you like a total jerk.

Agreed. But as I said, a lot of the comments I've read boil down to the fact that the players felt insulted by Kaidan/Ash questioning their Shepard - I'm of course aware that this is not how every player felt.

The option wasn't given by Bioware - it's hardly Kaidan or Ash's fault.

As TeenZombie wrote in the KAST: if Bioware had kept Kaidan and Ash as well as Shepard "in character" then they both would have listened to what Shepard had to say, if only for old times sake, and even maybe understood. They wouldn't have parted on such bad terms.

[Skyblade012]

Of course it's BioWare's fault.



But it's hard for the characters not to seem unreasonable when they are less cooperative than murderers and drug dealers.

[PlumPaul93]

Anyone know if there is going to be an Ashley/Kaidan DLC just like liara fans got LOTSB? Just wondering because I might just move to liara if I don't get at least decent closure with Ashley kindda disappointing because I always liked her more than Liara (didn't like the idea of asari kids).

[GodWood]

sagequeen wrote...
A few things I think could help with that:

1) Awesome intro cinematics. Part of why Liara looked so dang good in LotSB was her rockin' cinematics. She got out from behind the desk and threw biotic power all over the place. People who never took the time to talk to her much (including me) woke up and paid a little more attention to her after that.

2) A new outfit. Lame, but true, Liara's new outfit had people talking. Kaidan's Horizon armor is fine, but Ashley could use a change. However, keeping with her personality, it should not be overly sexualized. She's a Marine, first and foremost. (edit: though that tin-foil miniskirt might make an appearance with romanced shep and i don't think anyone would complain)

3) Excellent convo/banter. "Truck." "I KNOW!" - seriously, the banter in LotSB was terrific and made Liara sound as funny and intelligent as she is lovely. It brought her back to the forefront as your friend.  LotSB assumed that you knew Liara from way back and the characters fell into these awesome moments of humor and then of tense "where are we now?"  It was so classic buddy film banter (or lover banter, as the case may be). Tali and Garrus made my day in ME2 because the dialog was also just more easy with them - there was not that "Cerberus wha?" stuff with the other folks. They treat you like old buddies and you want to do the same back to them. While Horizon can't be completely gotten over at once, if, as things get going, the "brothers/sisters/former lover-in arms" role came out, that would be cool. Kaidan was at your back from the very start, Ashley, from the first mission. They were there when the whole thing got started and for many of us, were there right until the end. whatever issues have to get dealt with, that would be nice to see shep and the VS fall into their friendship again.

4) with that: Let their humor shine through. Both are really funny, but unless you take them in the squad, you don't see that. a lot of people dump the humans the moment the aliens show up. more moments of their respective humor (ashley's sly teasing, kaidan's deadpan sarcasm) would be lovely.

5) Let their personalities shine and develop without a retcon. Liara's odd behavior in ME2 was explained in LotSB and we went on and her sweet, slightly awkward shyness came out. there was no retcon - instead, her sharper edge now fits being a deadly info broker. I say, execellent. Ashley is suspicious of aliens (i think rightly so in most cases) and religious. I would hate to see that changed about her. But a moment or two to explain it a little, to see how she's grown and changed over the years and her faith helped her through shep's death and she's come to respect aliens more - yeah, cool. Kaidan was never "whiny" or "boring" to my mind, but a nod to his stoic nature or his introversion or his headaches (he never did mention them to my sheps), would also be nice. that, of course, requires them getting some different dialog options, which is necessary to make them awesome - since their different dialog options made them so awesome in ME1 anyhow.

6) Show us why humans and the Alliance are awesome. ME1 set up the alien vs. human divide well. Most people thought aliens were cool, hence, "humans are boring" and by extension, the alliance squaddies. ME2 did not show the alliance in a very good light. personally, i LOVED the military aspects of ME1. i felt like shep was a little lost without it as a mere hired gun in ME2. I want to go back to seeing why the Alliance rocks (faults and all, they did kick a** at the battle of the citadel. remember THOSE cinematics?). Ash and Kaidan are Marines - some of the best - and that makes them unique out of all of our Cerberus allies with all their various reasons for joining a (once/still - take your pick) terrorist organization. I want to see them shine AS MARINES.

anyhow, a few random thoughts there. Ash and Kaidan were and are awesome characters, but I cannot count the number of times I seen hate or "i never liked them much" followed by a "well, i never took them anywhere in my party." Those people's loss, for sure, but I would love to see a VS DLC go a long way to showing everyone why Kaidan/Ashley are worth knowing.

This.

[Terastar]

In Mass Effect 1 while doing the assignment of looking for a data pad that the monkeys had while driving I spun around to leave and ran over the monkey. I loved Kaidan response to that. "Remind me to never get on your bad side." But like others said you had to take him with you to hear just how funny he is. I really want to get us back to lovers and have him as a squad mate again.

[Chignon]

Terastar wrote...

In Mass Effect 1 while doing the assignment of looking for a data pad that the monkeys had while driving I spun around to leave and ran over the monkey. I loved Kaidan response to that. "Remind me to never get on your bad side." But like others said you had to take him with you to hear just how funny he is. I really want to get us back to lovers and have him as a squad mate again.

Yes, please, more of that! Ash's was great too: "Ma'am, I would have just thrown a rock."

[Selenora]

sagequeen wrote...
anyhow, a few random thoughts there. Ash and Kaidan were and are awesome characters, but I cannot count the number of times I seen hate or "i never liked them much" followed by a "well, i never took them anywhere in my party." Those people's loss, for sure, but I would love to see a VS DLC go a long way to showing everyone why Kaidan/Ashley are worth knowing.

Yes, their loss. I, as i said before, was a bio member for years (with another  name) but i 've never ever bothered to participate in these old "I hate Kaidan/Ash" threads. What for?
what can i say to ppl that didnt even take them with them in missions but are too quick to judge them coz they are just that smart?
I liked all my squadmembers from ME1. I did had my preferences, yes, but i didnt dislike anyone. Neither had i judged anyone.
I dont like all my new squadmates from ME2 but i dont accuse them either. Different ppl have different tastes.

Btw, i tried all the romance options for my femShep so far. (the male ones at least)
I finished game with each of them and then i deleted them all, one by one.
im sticking with Kai. IMO hes the best romance option  so far.
I loved the fact that he was already interested in the femShep . flirting with her was on his mind.i just had to push things a little.
but as i said................different ppl....different tastes

[close2myheart]

@: sage: bloodyhell briliant post. <3<3<3
      One of (many other things) that I love about Kaidan is his smart sense of humor. Went a replay in ME1 again with an all aliance squaddie and I thoroughly enjoy their banters. I hope there'll be an adequate proportion of these in the VS dlc to come ^^v
For a kick a** cinematics, how about the VS suddenly swooping in and saving Shep from a tight situation? Hell I'd like to see that. Shep's been doing a lot of saving; Th SR2 crew and even the galaxy. Just for once I'd like to see Shep got rescued (well, maybe that will count as the 2nd one. Since the 1st would be the whole 'resurecting Shepard' kinda thing)

-Just an idea-

Terastar wrote...

In Mass Effect 1 while doing the assignment of looking for a data pad that the monkeys had while driving I spun around to leave and ran over the monkey. I loved Kaidan response to that. "Remind me to never get on your bad side." But like others said you had to take him with you to hear just how funny he is. I really want to get us back to lovers and have him as a squad mate again.

This and 1000x this!

[Saibh]

You know, I gotta say, the weird thing is, I never liked Liara before Shadow Broker. She was plain creepy to me, and very clingy.

But just being able to act like a human being with actual emotions around her raised my opinion of her rapidly. No one ever asks about Shepard. So far, in just ME2, everything that could count as an emotional reaction is sort of swept away: Shep hardly has only a brief nod about Horizon, the new romances are quick and handled cleanly--no messy fights or jealousy or questions about old relationships. Hell, the LI dying in the suicide mission garners almost no reaction. I believe only Thane and Jack have separate dialogue if they die and are romanced.

Shadow Broker did something ME2 didn't--bridged the gap between ME1 and ME2 emotionally. Liara is your friend or lover, she cares about you. She references Shepard as a person, not just as the Commander.

This is the response I want in a Kaidan/Ashley DLC. I want the ability to feel like Shepard is a person, not a walking gun that asks a lot of questions ("Tell me what you know about..."). I would love to see a confrontation between love interests, new and old. I know it's unlikely to happen, but I really would love their voice actors to return and ask you about it. If Kaidan/Ashley return for ME3, it'll probably be saved till then, but I feel like it's strangely discordant to sleep with Liara while knowingly cheating on your other LI and them not being even suspicious.

I really want to have the ability to have a strong, variable reactions about Horizon. I would hate it if it boiled down to:

Paragon: I understand, I know you're loyal to the Alliance, but I love you.
Neutral: You should have trusted me--we have a lot to talk about.
Renegade: Dickface, I've been sleeping around behind your back, haha!

I want to be able to react strongly as a Paragon, too. Out of all of the outcomes and conversations I've played in both games, I think this one tops, or comes close to topping, my list of scenarios where I want more than three possible paths.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 septembre 2010 - 03:46 .