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[Raanz]

Like always, good post sage....

If BW does a VS dlc (I believe they will, I think they planned to all along), I'm pretty sure they'll flesh out either character a lot more then they did in ME2. Any character from ME1 that you saw in ME2 with a decent role (Garrus, Wrex, Tali, etc) have had their day in the sun, the only major characters left out (given cameos) were Liara, Ash and Kaidan. Liara has had her time now, they'll tie up the loose ends with the other two.

[sagefic]

Saibh wrote...
Shadow Broker did something ME2 didn't--bridged the gap between ME1 and ME2 emotionally. Liara is your friend or lover, she cares about you. She references Shepard as a person, not just as the Commander.

This.^ A thousand times, THIS.

That's what it was about ME2 - there was so much potential for strong emotional weight, but it rarely followed through.

Shepard frickin' DIED. I hyperventilate a little every time I see the intro movie. It's powerful, powerful stuff. There was so much that could be done with that and it just...wasn't. Saving Garrus - emotional. Helping Tali - emotional. Heck, I'm not asking for major drama always or crying my eyes out through the whole game, but seriously, you set up something like a death and you expect to see emotional payoff. The fact that Shepard goes through the rest of the game like a robot made a part of my RPer's soul shrivel up and die.

I've said it before, and ME1 was like a novel, ME2 like a short story collection. I understand that ME1 had i's flaws, but it also built emotional weight over the course of the story so things like Virmire mattered to the players. ME2 was good, but overall it sometimes failed to build up that sense that it all mattered. LotSB really did make it all matter again - you have to have this info to fight the Reapers - you need a friend on your side. Liara is back and she's cool and she's concerned about Shepard and Shepard speaks his/her mind about the situation. It really did bring back so much of the things I'd loved about ME1. It was a very good kind of closer/epilogue story for the ME2 saga and we just need one more loose end tied up before heading out for the Reapers...

All that really makes me hope if there is a VS DLC in the works, they make it EPIC. I don't mind waiting.

[Saibh]

And to add to my previous sentiment, I know this is rather controversial, but I'd like a VS DLC to be limited to post-campaign. In Shadow Broker, nothing of real interest is said either way regarding choices. In fact, I got a few references as being with Cerberus, which in some of my playthroughs was completely wrong. By limiting it to post-campaign, developers can focus on a specific few variables, instead of watering it all down to make room for all of the possible variables about where you are in the story at that point.



Let's say you romanced the VS, and it is played post-campaign the devs know that you stayed faithful or romanced someone else--one or the other. If played before, they have to account for the different levels of relationship you can be with your crewmates.



To my understanding, it would make the DLC more concise--rather than leaving out references because there's too much to account for, they can focus on what they know must have happened at this point.

[Mox Ruuga]

Having an existential convo with the VS would be grand.

Shepard is a fricking Cyborg Zombie... At least allow us an option to discuss that with someone we trust.

Am I still me? If not, who am I?

Ash especially, given her religious views, could have a lot to say here. And if the Shepard in question shared her faith (like we can in ME1), it could really prove a cathartic moment.

The more blunt among us could just say "I'm me and that's it", if they chose not to wallow in it... But come on! Shepard died. Was dead for what, two years? And no one really wonders about this...

And if we were in romance with the LI, the convo could be even more heartfelt.

[Chignon]

Saibh wrote...

And to add to my previous sentiment, I know this is rather controversial, but I'd like a VS DLC to be limited to post-campaign. In Shadow Broker, nothing of real interest is said either way regarding choices. In fact, I got a few references as being with Cerberus, which in some of my playthroughs was completely wrong. By limiting it to post-campaign, developers can focus on a specific few variables, instead of watering it all down to make room for all of the possible variables about where you are in the story at that point.

Let's say you romanced the VS, and it is played post-campaign the devs know that you stayed faithful or romanced someone else--one or the other. If played before, they have to account for the different levels of relationship you can be with your crewmates.

To my understanding, it would make the DLC more concise--rather than leaving out references because there's too much to account for, they can focus on what they know must have happened at this point.

Agreed. I would like a Kaidan & Ash DLC to be a "real" bridging DLC.

[SmokePants]

The suicide mission should never ever be usurped as the final mission. Strictly post-campaign DLC won't happen, unless it's a seperate module. Unfortunately, ME2 doesn't seem to have the capability of playing other modules like Dragon Age did.

[Saibh]

sagequeen wrote...

This.^ A thousand times, THIS.

That's what it was about ME2 - there was so much potential for strong emotional weight, but it rarely followed through.

Shepard frickin' DIED. I hyperventilate a little every time I see the intro movie. It's powerful, powerful stuff. There was so much that could be done with that and it just...wasn't. Saving Garrus - emotional. Helping Tali - emotional. Heck, I'm not asking for major drama always or crying my eyes out through the whole game, but seriously, you set up something like a death and you expect to see emotional payoff. The fact that Shepard goes through the rest of the game like a robot made a part of my RPer's soul shrivel up and die.

Oh, that always bothers me. People seem to...underestimate the weight of, yanno, dying (I love Thane, but I roll my eyes every time he says "I was dead for ten years, I know the feeling"; no, Thane, not metaphorically, I suffocated to freaking death in space). I think Jacob's romance references something about this briefly, but it didn't feel like enough.

When I picked the Renegade option to Liara's "How are you really feeling", I went slackjawed and then cheered aloud. Vasir referencing a Sole Survivor Shepard was absolutely an amazing feeling--I was so offended that you can't say anything in vanilla. It was so disconcerting to see all of these references to the experiments they did but not a single thing about the experiment they did on you.

Also, I always had difficulties getting attached to my crew. In their own loyalty mission (not so much recruitment mission), you see into their character, and I liked them then. Outside of that, it was just a Q&A about their species or past experiences. It's like Tali and Garrus had so little dialogue because you'd already asked them all about their species and views in ME1, and Shepard just couldn't think of anything else to talk about.

The Dossiers in the Lair made me care about them in a way I never did before. I saw them as people, not tools. I absolutely adore that Grunt likes Hemingway and orders action figures. There was little insight into Miranda's character outside of cold, hard b*tch with sympathetic self-esteem issues--reading about her dating attempts, her infertility, her connection to Oriana was moving.

I've said it before, and ME1 was like a novel, ME2 like a short story collection. I understand that ME1 had i's flaws, but it also built emotional weight over the course of the story so things like Virmire mattered to the players. ME2 was good, but overall it sometimes failed to build up that sense that it all mattered. LotSB really did make it all matter again - you have to have this info to fight the Reapers - you need a friend on your side. Liara is back and she's cool and she's concerned about Shepard and Shepard speaks his/her mind about the situation. It really did bring back so much of the things I'd loved about ME1. It was a very good kind of closer/epilogue story for the ME2 saga and we just need one more loose end tied up before heading out for the Reapers...

All that really makes me hope if there is a VS DLC in the works, they make it EPIC. I don't mind waiting.

I agree for a second count, as well. I have little else to add, you put it very well; except, for ME3, I'd like to see everyone connect. All of your squadmates live on their own portions of the ship. Kasumi helps make them seem together, but mostly they're completely secluded from each other. I would have loved to walk past the mess hall to see Thane taking lunch with some of the crew, or listening to Zaeed corner a crewmate (totally Kelly) and ramble on and on, or for Kasumi and Tali to gossip like I know they would.

ME3 doesn't need to worry about continuity from the first games like the other two did. Hopefully, this will allow for detail and characterization to shine through.

[Saibh]

SmokePants wrote...

The suicide mission should never ever be usurped as the final mission. Strictly post-campaign DLC won't happen, unless it's a seperate module. Unfortunately, ME2 doesn't seem to have the capability of playing other modules like Dragon Age did.

Not as the final mission--as an extended sidequest, similar to Shadow Broker. You don't need to do it, you choose to. Maybe Anderson e-mails you, warning you about a dangerous and important mission he sent Kaidan/Ashley on. You may choose to help, or not. 

It'd be no different than playing any sidequest after campaign, only this time, you get references about what you did.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 septembre 2010 - 05:10 .

[sagefic]

Saibh wrote...

When I picked the Renegade option to Liara's "How are you really feeling", I went slackjawed and then cheered aloud. 

Me too. I felt like LotSB was worth the price of admission for that alone. Well, that and the car chase. And seeing the SB...okay, but that line made me cheer. I was SO happy I'd picked that line (my Shep is MAD at this point) and I loved the emotion to it. In ME1 you had many things Shep could say about his/her feelings, past, etc. If you want to be a "stoic tough badass"  (bor-ing!) you can. but i liked being able to have shep be human finally.

[Chignon]

Brodyaha wrote...

So sorry people who have been looking at the OP in various ugly stages.  All of the bullets weren't turning out right, and I suck at HTML.  So, I've emphasized the points using emoticons.  I hope that works.  Please let me know what you think, as other alternatives didn't look good.

I think it works just fine and it certainly gets the point across.

My personal fave:

Phoenix armor on Kaidan

Priceless, Brody!

[SmokePants]

Saibh wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

The suicide mission should never ever be usurped as the final mission. Strictly post-campaign DLC won't happen, unless it's a seperate module. Unfortunately, ME2 doesn't seem to have the capability of playing other modules like Dragon Age did.

Not as the final mission--as an extended sidequest, similar to Shadow Broker. You don't need to do it, you choose to. Maybe Anderson e-mails you, warning you about a dangerous and important mission he sent Kaidan/Ashley on. You may choose to help, or not. 

It'd be no different than playing any sidequest after campaign, only this time, you get references about what you did.

The difference is huge. Suppose I insist on completing every side mission before doing the Collector base? That post-SM-only DLC would be like that last little poop nugget that refuses to be flushed -- doing laps around the bowl, mocking me.

I said it before LOTSB came out that it would be playable before the SM and I was correct, while a lot of people who misinterpretted "bridging DLC" were incorrect. Bioware is not about to supplant the story endpoint of the game with side content.

[LadyJaneGrey]

Saibh wrote...

And to add to my previous sentiment, I know this is rather controversial, but I'd like a VS DLC to be limited to post-campaign. In Shadow Broker, nothing of real interest is said either way regarding choices. In fact, I got a few references as being with Cerberus, which in some of my playthroughs was completely wrong. By limiting it to post-campaign, developers can focus on a specific few variables, instead of watering it all down to make room for all of the possible variables about where you are in the story at that point.

Completely agree.:innocent:

[Terastar]

So gang what do we want Kaidan or Ashley I really want him to know that thto know when we do see them?



For me: Kaidan (Lover) (Warning: I am not a writer in any way shape or form)



I really want him to know that one of the first things I wanted to know about when I first woke up was what happen to you and the rest of my crew? I was told by Cerbus that everyone moved on it's been 2 years. I was abandoned by everyone and everything I knew was now different except that the Reapers were still a threat and Cerberus would help me. That is all I had to live for.That and thinking of destroying the Reapers because they took me from you. I tried to ask Anderson about you and he would not tell me anything then Cerberus sent me to Horizon saying you was there and in danger. I came and then my heart nearly burst when I seen you but then Cerberus came between us. Your email did give me hope is there hope or am I just fooling myself? I am sorry that I hurt you but I am not with Cerberus on the last mission I broke ties by destroying a collectors base that TIM wanted to keep. So whats been going on with you?

[FireEye]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

Saibh wrote...

And to add to my previous sentiment, I know this is rather controversial, but I'd like a VS DLC to be limited to post-campaign. In Shadow Broker, nothing of real interest is said either way regarding choices. In fact, I got a few references as being with Cerberus, which in some of my playthroughs was completely wrong. By limiting it to post-campaign, developers can focus on a specific few variables, instead of watering it all down to make room for all of the possible variables about where you are in the story at that point.

Completely agree.:innocent:

Yes.

[Saibh]

SmokePants wrote...

Saibh wrote...

SmokePants wrote...

The suicide mission should never ever be usurped as the final mission. Strictly post-campaign DLC won't happen, unless it's a seperate module. Unfortunately, ME2 doesn't seem to have the capability of playing other modules like Dragon Age did.

Not as the final mission--as an extended sidequest, similar to Shadow Broker. You don't need to do it, you choose to. Maybe Anderson e-mails you, warning you about a dangerous and important mission he sent Kaidan/Ashley on. You may choose to help, or not. 

It'd be no different than playing any sidequest after campaign, only this time, you get references about what you did.

The difference is huge. Suppose I insist on completing every side mission before doing the Collector base? That post-SM-only DLC would be like that last little poop nugget that refuses to be flushed -- doing laps around the bowl, mocking me.

I said it before LOTSB came out that it would be playable before the SM and I was correct, while a lot of people who misinterpretted "bridging DLC" were incorrect. Bioware is not about to supplant the story endpoint of the game with side content.

If that's how you feel about it; personally, if it's DLC, it's optional. It's an extended sidequest not necessary to the mission. It's just one that happens between games. The entire point of ME2 revolves around the Suicide Mission--nothing will ever supplant it. You must do it. You don't have to do DLC. I'm simply saying that if I choose to do a sidequest after campaign, well, it's still content that occurs after the mission. It doesn't mean that it's more important than the Suicide Mission, or more necessary. It just so happens to occur then, is all.

I think the pros far outweigh the cons. As I said, I understand it's not to everyone's tastes.

[Chignon]

The FemShep thread has brought a small detail to my attention: there is an empty picture frame on the desk near Shepard's bed. Maybe this DLC could add a picture of Shepard and Kaidan/Ashley or maybe even all three of them to it.

[Saibh]

Chignon wrote...

The FemShep thread has brought a small detail to my attention: there is an empty picture frame on the desk near Shepard's bed. Maybe this DLC could add a picture of Shepard and Kaidan/Ashley or maybe even all three of them to it.

Wait, really? Huh, I'll have to go check. That would be nice. I could see it adding a new picture of you and Kaidan/Ashley, or you and your new LI, especially if it is post-campaign.

I was hoping for ME3, you'd get a new picture of you and your love interest, like...I dunno, dinner with Oriana and her family with Miranda, or with Thane in the desert, or meeting Senior Vakarian with Garrus (actually, no, that needs to be done in the game, this is important), or maybe something like meditating with Samara if loving her in a long-term but unrequited way is optional.

Modifié par Saibh, 30 septembre 2010 - 10:47 .

[Chignon]

Yep, never noticed it myself until today. But I don't like the SR-2 too much so I guess I never took the time to really look around it. And I love your ideas, Saibh!

[ADLegend21]

I want a reminiscing scene for the VS like there was with Liara. and that is my contribution.

[mopotter]

Terastar wrote...

So gang what do we want Kaidan or Ashley I really want him to know that thto know when we do see them?

For me: Kaidan (Lover) (Warning: I am not a writer in any way shape or form)

I really want him to know that one of the first things I wanted to know about when I first woke up was what happen to you and the rest of my crew? I was told by Cerbus that everyone moved on it's been 2 years. I was abandoned by everyone and everything I knew was now different except that the Reapers were still a threat and Cerberus would help me. That is all I had to live for.That and thinking of destroying the Reapers because they took me from you. I tried to ask Anderson about you and he would not tell me anything then Cerberus sent me to Horizon saying you was there and in danger. I came and then my heart nearly burst when I seen you but then Cerberus came between us. Your email did give me hope is there hope or am I just fooling myself? I am sorry that I hurt you but I am not with Cerberus on the last mission I broke ties by destroying a collectors base that TIM wanted to keep. So whats been going on with you?

Yep, I went to the citadel first thing, went to talk to Anderson asked how Kaidan was and I just know Anderson didn't tell him.     I really wanted the option to answer some of the e-mails, if nothing else than with a upper right "thinking of you, still care and we need to talk", or a bottom right "you should have trusted me and we are done"

[mopotter]

Very nice Brodyaha. I especially agree about phoenix armor, on any of them. Pink just is not my favorite color. I always apologize to anyone who wears it and I get rid of it as soon as possible.



I hope they will consider these ideas. I like both Kaidan and Ash and your right, they are two completely different characters and need different dialogue. They did it in ME1 they can do it for a DLC, if they want to, and I sure do hope they want to.

[mopotter]

Brodyaha wrote...

Saibh wrote...
I'd like a VS DLC to be limited to post-campaign. In Shadow Broker, nothing of real interest is said either way regarding choices.
By limiting it to post-campaign, developers can focus on a specific few variables, instead of watering it all down to make room for all of the possible variables about where you are in the story at that point.
To my understanding, it would make the DLC more concise--rather than leaving out references because there's too much to account for, they can focus on what they know must have happened at this point.

Snipped, but I agree.
I was thinking yesterday that it should probably be post-campaign, although I know people will disagree.  I played LotSB before going through the Omega 4 relay, and although it was cool to see some of the changes between playing pre-relay vs post-relay, if BioWare is  serious about the, "bridging" DLC part, then having it post-campaign would make more sense.
Furthermore, from a story angle, having the Horizon encounter, then having the ability to go and team up with Kaidan and Ashley right away after?  It would be ill-fitted.

Add me to the post-campaign crowd.  I started writing my reasons why, but you both have already said it.