3512 réponses à ce sujet

[siriusrambles]

the reg situation is interesting. we would not have spacer families if everyone followed the rules. maybe when you develop feelings for another officer, you have to report it and then someone is transferred. you can continue the relationship on shore leave and downtime without the added messiness of being squadmates. though i do not believe kaidan would have broken regs with shep had they not already committed mutiny. i think he would have waited until after the mission was over.

[jillyfae]

siriusrambles wrote...

the reg situation is interesting. we would not have spacer families if everyone followed the rules. maybe when you develop feelings for another officer, you have to report it and then someone is transferred. you can continue the relationship on shore leave and downtime without the added messiness of being squadmates. though i do not believe kaidan would have broken regs with shep had they not already committed mutiny. i think he would have waited until after the mission was over.

Ok, fraternization is not between all Alliance personnel.  It is getting involved with someone in your direct chain of command.  (Or, frequently, officers getting involved with enlisted personnel.)  Most spacer families, or dual-military families nowadays, have different jobs, different duties, and/or different commanders.  That said, I definitely agree that Alenko would probably have never been willing to break the regulation if they hadn't been forced into mutiny by the Alliance's failure to act. 

Modifié par jillyfae, 11 octobre 2010 - 09:43 .

[siriusrambles]

sorry i was not clear. i meant the fact that shep and kaidan were superior and subordinate about the spacer family dealie. i forget everyone else is not in my head when i'm talking.

[jillyfae]

Sorry, didn't mean to jump all over you. I've come across the argument I thought you were making before, and it annoys me. Being in a military family and all. How do you think all those military people keep breeding? A lot of them marry other military people. Cause they spend their time with other military people. And I frequently am very confusing because I forget no one else knows what's going on in my head. ^_~

[sagefic]

Brodyaha wrote...

siriusrambles wrote...

sorry i was not clear. i meant the fact that shep and kaidan were superior and subordinate about the spacer family dealie. i forget everyone else is not in my head when i'm talking.

This happens to me more than you know.  

I would like the breaking of regs to be addressed in DLC (I want a lot of things to happen in potential DLC  ) but I don't know if it would be better saved for ME3.

to be honest, i am not sure if i care to see the Alliance "figure it out" so to speak. it think getting found out really depends on the shep, and what the player thinks their shep and the romanced VS did. some people didn't even spend the night together before ilos (and yet got the email). others may figure that was one time deal. others may imagine there was more after. i think that treads into details the player is best off filling in themselves.

however, i would like to see some sort of nod to the regs - to what it meant, what the stance really is, etc. i've heard people argue that any relationship amongst alliance personnel is no-no, others argue it's like traditional militaries  (keep it out of the chain of command), and others say it doesn't really matter. while BW hints at the middle option, i think, it might be nice to be reminded of that.

and i do recall someone pointing out that even friended kaidan/ash could be a problem, as close friendships (esp. with CO to NCO) would be fraternization as well.

just thinking out loud here. i guess i'm saying that i would love to see the regs re-stated (just for a reminder about what was at stake) and a clarification about that the rules are now that shep is listed as KIA. 

Modifié par sagequeen, 12 octobre 2010 - 02:43 .

[siriusrambles]

jillyfae wrote...
Sorry, didn't mean to jump all over you. I've come across the argument I thought you were making before, and it annoys me. Being in a military family and all. How do you think all those military people keep breeding? A lot of them marry other military people. Cause they spend their time with other military people. And I frequently am very confusing because I forget no one else knows what's going on in my head. ^_~

i was not making an argument so i'm definitely confused.  it was an innocuous comment about how i thought the regs seemed important to kaidan in relation to him pursuing his commanding officer.  i'm kinda lost at how i annoyed you.  it was unintentional whatever i did.

[earthbornFemShep]

prizm123 wrote...

i want something that sort of addresses why didn't Liara tell or get help from Ashley/Kaiden in recovering Shepard's body or at least let them know what was going on. They were not antagonistic in ME1, and were squadmates. It could have avoided the whole mess on Horizon and with the Council not trusting you.

Obviously this is just me pointing out a rather obvious plot hole, but it is a valid question i think.

Ash wasn't keen on Liara.  Not to mention that neither of them were keen on Cerberus.  If Liara told them, they probably would have tried to stop her.  Also, they are Alliance soldiers and don't get to choose their assignments.

[SagaciousTien]

I've also wondered why no-one other than Liara went to the lengths to save Shepherd according to Redemption. Assuming that the Virmire Survivor was somehow held by red tape at the Citidel and Wrex was dead - why didn't Tali (who apparently was romantically interested and cared deeply for us) and Garrus (who came to regard Shepherd very highly and comes to be a romantic interest as well) help in some way?

[earthbornFemShep]

SagaciousTien wrote...

I've also wondered why no-one other than Liara went to the lengths to save Shepherd according to Redemption. Assuming that the Virmire Survivor was somehow held by red tape at the Citidel and Wrex was dead - why didn't Tali (who apparently was romantically interested and cared deeply for us) and Garrus (who came to regard Shepherd very highly and comes to be a romantic interest as well) help in some way?

Wrex went to solve family matters (or was dead), Tali continued her pilgramage, and Garrus went back to C-Sec (or Spectre training).  Not great excuses, but apparently they were too busy to bother with retrieving a corpse.  You'd think that if you did all three of their ME1 'loyalty' missions they would have helped Liara out... but since it was a comic book I guess they assumed you hadn't.  Maybe none of them liked Liara... tho that is pretty petty when you consider that it was about saving YOU not her.

[Bryy_Miller]

This thread disturbs me. Any Ashley/Kaidan DLC would most likely be horrible due to the fact that it would need to be completely different for each choice, and DLC does not work like that.

[Chignon]

Brodyaha wrote...

 I do recall Kaidan asking my ManShep (been a while since I played as FemShep) if his opinion was, off the record, and my paragon response was, "there's nothing in the regs that says you can't be friends with your commanding officer."  Furthermore, Kaidan says in one of the response options before Ilos that flirting is one thing, but a physical relationship is another.

So I interpreted that as that people are aware that there are boundaries, and they're expected, to be followed, but unless you've consummated a relationship with them, then it's not the end of the world.

.And I've assumed that it's fine if you and your partner are both in the Alliance (just make it known to the Alliance and they'll assign you and your partner to different ships).

Also, there's something in Ashley's Mass Effect wikia page that hints that there's rules for sleeping with your fellow officers.  I have no idea where it's from; I assumed this email was from ME1, but I didn't find it anywhere (if anybody would tell me, I'd be happy).

But no matter how it goes: Shepard was Kaidan and Ashley's CO.  They were subordinates.  One was sacrificed on Virmire, and if it was to pursue a relationship, then the Alliance can assume Shepard's feelings and thoughts were compromised.  I have a feeling that decision could bit Shepard in the butt in DLC or ME3.

And sorry if it's taking off the DLC topic, but I'm just trying to say that I would like to see something mentioned about breaking regs should BioWare choose to put it in DLC (or even at all).

I was wringing my hands over how to  write what I am thinking about the whole issue, but you - again - did it so much better than I. Great post.

[Selenora]

My Shep.........actually all of them, didnt put that much of atention to the regs issue.......im sure if its to couse any trouble ill be able to deal with it and get me and Kai out of trouble

[sagefic]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This thread disturbs me. Any Ashley/Kaidan DLC would most likely be horrible due to the fact that it would need to be completely different for each choice, and DLC does not work like that.

I agree it would be a difficult DLC to make, but I don't see that it is impossible or the result must be "horrible." Consider:

* If the Ashley/Kaidan story arc is to be dealt with, it must do so in such a way that brings that character back into Shep's life, has them establish a relationship with Shep (reconciled or not) and then plays a role in the upcoming battle with the Reapers. Unless they plan to cut out Kaidan/Ashley altogether (God forbid), they will need to do this in ME3. Fans are simply asking for an expansion of that story arc and for that expansion to get its own time in a DLC.

* The DLC would not need to be completely different for each choice. If you mean it would require different character models, slight changes to animation, and different voice actors, yes. But they did that in ME2 and will likely need to do that for ME3 (see above). It would be a push and a challenge to pull it off, but not impossible. If you mean it would require two separate DLCs, no, I don't think it would. Check the OP again - many people would like to see the VS work with Shep on an Alliance-related mission involving Anderson/Hackett that ends with Shep resolving his/her standing with the Alliance (either leaving or returning or just being a spectre), uncovering valuable Reaper data, saving an Alliance person from Cerberus, etc. Any of those missions could be done by Ashley or Kaidan both. The fans have asked that in personal dialog with Shep and at key moments, Ashely and Kaidan be given different dialog to reflect their different personalities, but there could still be a lot of overlap.

example: Cerberus agent attacks Kaidan/Ashley and Shep
Kaidan/Ashley: A friend of yours, commander?/A friend of yours, skipper?
Shepard: Not anymore.
Kaidan/Ashley: Let's do this./Bring it on.

^ okay, totally off the cuff example, but you see what I mean. if they're already recording two different voice actors, you can change up the lines a bit, but the mission/baddies/etc. is pretty much the same.

* You said DLC doesn't work like that. Again, if you mean because they wouldn't make 2 separate DLCs, yeah, I agree. If you mean because it would be too hard to make a single one work for two different characters/cases - well, first, going off the above, the ideas in the OP and so on, I don't see why this would be much different than what's already needed to finish the Ashley/Kaidan storyline. Also, this is the trend BW has set. LotSB had all sorts of variations that I never saw because I played a shep that didn't romance Liara. LotSB was not just a single story, but multiple variations on the SB tale.

But I guess my main thinking is this: BW sets the bar high. They did Virmire and they've followed through on keeping the dead character dead. Most companies would not bother with the resources needed to pull of that epic and dramatic moment AND to keep up with its consequences. But I tend to think if BW set up the decision, then they're ready to deal with the fallout of it, and so the DLC is a natural way of doing so.

Modifié par sagequeen, 12 octobre 2010 - 05:31 .

[Saibh]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This thread disturbs me. Any Ashley/Kaidan DLC would most likely be horrible due to the fact that it would need to be completely different for each choice, and DLC does not work like that.

Anything concerning Ashley or Kaidan would be like that. If they don't want to relegate them to cameos in the third game, they're going to have to take into account their level of dead. Honestly, so long as their personality was different, the DLC itself wouldn't have to concern a different mission entirely. The dialogue and some of the cutscenes could change, but, then, romancing Liara changes quite a bit of dialogue in Shadow Broker. Obviously this would be a helluva lot more, but it wouldn't be impossible.

[FireEye]

Brodyaha wrote...

Also, there's something in Ashley's Mass Effect wikia page that hints that there's rules for sleeping with your fellow officers.  I have no idea where it's from; I assumed this email was from ME1, but I didn't find it anywhere (if anybody would tell me, I'd be happy).

It's from Bioware's Mass Effect website, here.

I was pleasantly surprised that they brought up fraternization at all.  I would be interested to see who knows what, since only Joker and Kaidan seem to know there was any relationship at all. 

[Chignon]

sagequeen wrote...

I agree it would be a difficult DLC to make, but I don't see that it is impossible or the result must be "horrible." Consider:
*snipped for length*

Great post, sagequeen!

Bryy_Miller wrote...

This thread disturbs me. Any Ashley/Kaidan DLC would most likely be horrible due to the fact that it would need to be completely different for each choice, and DLC does not work like that.

You do realize that Bioware is a company that takes pride in saying that choices matter in their games, no?

The only way I could see a theoretical Ash & Kaidan DLC "be horrible" would be if it was handled in the same way as their Horizon cameo:
-interchangeable lines with no regard to their different characters and character development in ME1
-little to no difference for a Shepard who chose to pursue a romance with one of them
-sloppy animation
-complete out of character behaviour
-very limited conversation options

If Bioware avoids those points and learns from past mistakes of ME2, I don't see one reason why it inevitably has to be horrible just because it would have to be done differently for Kaidan and Ashley.

[Bryy_Miller]

Chignon wrote...
You do realize that Bioware is a company that takes pride in saying that choices matter in their games, no?

*facepalm*
You know what, nevermind. Move along.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 12 octobre 2010 - 07:40 .

[Chignon]

I agree, Brody. Especially with this:

I consider the DLC as part of their ME2 development, and a Horizon cameo doesn't cut it.

Bryy_Miller wrote...

*facepalm*
You know what, nevermind. Move along.

Care to contribute something constructive to the actual topic when you are done acting superior?

Modifié par Chignon, 12 octobre 2010 - 08:15 .

[Raoune]

I assumed there was Liara DLC because that has effectively "concluded" her storyline. You're either staying with her or you ended it (if you were involved). I see the lack of Kaidan/Ash DLC to indicate they'll be returning as a party member in 3, whereas Liara will be in her role as information broker for Shep.

[sagefic]

Raoune wrote...

I assumed there was Liara DLC because that has effectively "concluded" her storyline. You're either staying with her or you ended it (if you were involved). I see the lack of Kaidan/Ash DLC to indicate they'll be returning as a party member in 3, whereas Liara will be in her role as information broker for Shep.

If this was the case, I would be very happy and would forgo a DLC to have Kaidan/Ashley back. Honestly, at this point, I think a lot of us are as much for DLC as we are for any news at all re: Kaidan/Ashley's role in ME3.

Well, I'll speak for myself. I know I am.

Modifié par sagequeen, 12 octobre 2010 - 11:28 .

[Gundar3]

sagequeen wrote...

Raoune wrote...

I assumed there was Liara DLC because that has effectively "concluded" her storyline. You're either staying with her or you ended it (if you were involved). I see the lack of Kaidan/Ash DLC to indicate they'll be returning as a party member in 3, whereas Liara will be in her role as information broker for Shep.

If this was the case, I would be very happy and would forgo a DLC to have Kaidan/Ashley back. Honestly, at this point, I think a lot of us are as much for DLC as we are for any news at all re: Kaidan/Ashley's role in ME3.

Well, I'll speak for myself. I know I am.

This is very true.  Any info at all would be good regading DLC and the start of marketing for ME3.