237 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

Why is it being lumped in with the NWN3 topic?  Obviously the two games are not the same.  People keep starting NWMMO topics only to have them shut down and sent to the NWN3 topic, a topic speculatiing on a game that is not even hinted at becoming reality.  I suspect this would all stop if we had a topic for NWMMO.

EDIT:   Incidentally, NWMMO sounds like D&D online, i.e., BOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIING.  All the hype surrounding it does not help.  Hype bores me.  It's so transparent and irrellevant.  What we do have that's concrete information points towards another D&D Online, boring.

[mod edit: agreed with Superfly_2000, this should be a bit more specifically named, so I added to the title: "Nights Online" dno]

Modifié par nicethugbert, 26 août 2010 - 04:02 .

[Dorateen]

I agree. The new Cryptic project is most definitely not NWN3.

It is more like DDO 2

Long live NWN2

Harumph!

[dunniteowl]

Well if everyone could keep it in one thread, that'd be great. I noted (though Euryptid beat me to it) that most posts were going into the NWN3 thread, which I thought odd in the first place. So, due to that, I'm guessing that's why Euryptid made that particular call.

Still, if we could get everyone who has any more or anything to say on NWNO to post it here instead. Then I would prefer that myself.



dunniteowl

[Tonytobinus]

That's how I view it as well. For all I know, this could end up being a spectacular game in its own right, but it is not a successor to the current chain of Neverwinter titles. Not in design, and certainly not in spirit. But there's no problem with sharing the franchise. I may even give it a try.



Just not at the expense of my NWN2 time.

[Sir_Rule]

I still have many seething suspicions and it's taking a big will save for me to withhold my judgment until I see more. I would be lying though if I said I wasn't interested in a 4E Neverwinter, if only to see how the mechanics will work.

[MrMidas]

I would love to see NWN3 not MMO. I am just looking into getting the 4E D&D books and if they are half as good as I am expecting then this would be an awesome game. Just thnking about how cool player-made realms would be with a new engine and ruleset gets me itching to hear a confirmation about what form NWN3 would take.

[nicethugbert]

MrMidas wrote...

I would love to see NWN3 not MMO. I am just looking into getting the 4E D&D books and if they are half as good as I am expecting then this would be an awesome game. Just thnking about how cool player-made realms would be with a new engine and ruleset gets me itching to hear a confirmation about what form NWN3 would take.

If you're interested in NWN3 not MMO then why are you posting in the Neverwinter MMO thread?  Trolling perhaps?

[kamalpoe]

dunniteowl wrote...
Well if everyone could keep it in one thread, that'd be great.
dunniteowl

You might want to mention that to the other mod who locked those other threads :-)

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

I'd like to start putting together a list of demands for a community petition in regards to this new project. My initial thought was just to cut-and-paste the design specs for The Next cRPG with a Toolset, but seeing as Cryptid's Neverwinter is going to be more of a light MMORPG, I though it might be better to tailor a set of demands to Cryptid that might actually have a chance of being implemented. For example, the game is going to be 4.0, so there's no point asking for 3.5 or Pathfinder or even a more open system.



I think we should also focus more on 'community rights' rather than specific features. For example, rather than demanding that they implement X class, should we demand that we can create custom classes? How do we feel about being hit up for more money every time they introduce a new class in an expansion pack or DLC? Do we have a 'right' to all 12 base classes, or whatever the basic 4.0 edition book has in it? Ditto for creatures, spells, feats, races, items, etc.



For me, at least, I'm more concerned about the new 'Forge' toolset for creating custom quests. What does the new toolset need to enable players to create decent modules for Neverwinter? What I've read about Cryptic's previous efforts is discouraging (no custom areas, no non-combat quests, no multi-linear quests or conversations), but nor do I think a 'light' MMORPG needs a monster toolset like NWN2's Electron. Maybe a return to NWN1-style tile-based areas, and maybe with some guidelines or limitations to 'idiot-proof' the whole module-building process.



What do builders, PW-creators, and folks with DM aspirations and a pile of fanfic need to bring their ideas to fruition? What should the scripting language look like? The Convo editor? Cutscene tools? NPC and creature creation? Encounters? Should we worry about Cryptic limiting the size or complexity of modules? Again, lets think about this in terms of rights, the right of the community to build their own adventures that rival the official content in terms of scale and polish.

[The Fred]

Thing is that while an NWN MMO might not be what we players of the NWN series are typically inclined to, it might get more people interested in the originals - if it were any good. If it's bad, it could do just the opposite.



As for player-created content, I'm not sure how well it's even possible for that to work in an MMO unless it's quite a big part of it. An MMO with a little afterthought level creator tacked on which just uses the MMO engine to run things wouldn't really excite me. An MMO where player-created stuff is a big feature could be cool, but could also be very messy (like, can the creator give players loot and things, and if so, couldn't that mess up the rest of the MMO?) but if the game were built for it, maybe it could be really awesome (think like some sort of Planescape-esq City of Doors sort of thing, linking players to player-made mods which needn't be in keeping with each other, for example).

[The Fred]

As to what Lugaid was saying, I don't think an MMO-type toolset would ever be the same as what we have for NWN(2) so I'm not actually overly concerned about that (i.e. if I don't like it I just won't go near it), but the one thing I would demand would be that they don't make a terrible botch job which slanders the whole "Neverwinter" name, thereby harming this unrelated (apart from setting) game.

[Dorateen]

Since this is going to be a multiplayer platform, I would think combat is going to be in Real Time.

Yet isn't one of the supposed key features touted by 4E, turned-based combat?

Harumph!

[The Fred]

Might be semi-turn-based, like we have now?

[BardKesnit]

I started to address your petition in the NWN3 thread, but posted here per DNO's request. I see you made some changes to the other post which addressed some of what I was going to say, so I'll only address what you have here.

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...

I'd like to start putting together a list of demands for a community petition in regards to this new project.

I will be very surprised if you get people to agree on anything but the most basic things.

Also, Cryptic has been working on this for over a year. I do not believe they will scrap everything they have done because people on one forum (or even a few NWN forums) send a petition. As stated above, you are not going to get people to agree. It's just human nature. I really enjoy the NWN games, but have gotten into discussions on the forums about particulars of the game that I like but others did not. Also, while the people who post in the forums are a selection of players, we are a very small selection. Most people do not go to forums unless they are having an issue with the game - and that includes games they like. Even if everyone here agreed on something, that does not mean the majority of the player base would like it.

I think we should also focus more on 'community rights' rather than specific features. For example, rather than demanding that they implement X class, should we demand that we can create custom classes?

We can ask, but I do not think they would be included, unless the game is designed more to serve as multiple PW's, rather than one overarching game. Custom classes risk being unbalanced, and being able to add Uber-Blasty-Basher to the game can easily ruin it for everyone else. Also, custom content makes it difficult to patch, or requires the creator to update after every patch. It's one thing if someone is using custom hot bars that do not work under the latest patch - they just disable to custom bars until the one who made them updates the mod for the patch. But what is someone to do if their maxed-out PC is suddenly unplayable because the patch broke their class. (I don't mean nerfed the class. I mean nothing works.)

How do we feel about being hit up for more money every time they introduce a new class in an expansion pack or DLC?

This is one area I suspect there will be disagreement. I know I prefer free-to-play MMOs because I am limited on my free time. However, if a game is really good, I will pay the fee. (Currently playing Warhammer Online.)

Do we have a 'right' to all 12 base classes, or whatever the basic 4.0 edition book has in it? Ditto for creatures, spells, feats, races, items, etc.

According to the official site, there's only 5 classes, so no to your first question.

For me, at least, I'm more concerned about the new 'Forge' toolset for creating custom quests. What does the new toolset need to enable players to create decent modules for Neverwinter? What I've read about Cryptic's previous efforts is discouraging (no custom areas, no non-combat quests, no multi-linear quests or conversations), but nor do I think a 'light' MMORPG needs a monster toolset like NWN2's Electron. Maybe a return to NWN1-style tile-based areas, and maybe with some guidelines or limitations to 'idiot-proof' the whole module-building process.

From official comments made, your first concern sound like the right answer. There are no modules as we know them. Instead, they are instanced side missions.

Again, lets think about this in terms of rights, the right of the community to build their own adventures that rival the official content in terms of scale and polish.

Sadly, players have no rights. There is no "right" to be able to make custom content, need not mention content better than the main game.

[nicethugbert]

Ha, forgot about 4e being turn based. Yeah, I chuckle when I hear people say that 4e is more cRPG friendly. I went through the rule books and didn't see that. I did see old D&D mechanisms that don't translate well or at all into a cRPG, for example the roll modification mechanism that cryptic is going to replace for NW MMO. But, those mechanisms are ignored or replaced in all D&D based cRPGs. So there is nothing particularly cRPG friendly about 4e and NW MMO will not be any better in this regard than any other D&D based cRPG becaue of 4e. So all this crowing about 4e in NW MMO is ... HYPE.

I think the petition is a good idea. We should be specific and reasonable in what we ask for. Unless we want to high light through implication NW MMO's short comings vis a vis other D&D based games such as NWN2. We should take into consideration how 4e can be modified in PnP and still be 4e-ish.

I think it'll be easy to send Cryptic/Atari into defensive spasms by asking for PC customization such as classes. They will want to keep a tight reign on their world so the cheaters and PKers don't chase everyone out. But, what about custom monsters and the like? I don't see how a player gains an advantage over other players with a custom monster that not even he can defeat.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 25 août 2010 - 07:08 .

[Ingthar]

BardKesnit wrote...

Sadly, players have no rights. There is no "right" to be able to make custom content, need not mention content better than the main game.

Players have the right not to buy or not to play a game. A strong community may enforce some changes like a labour union in working world (... or not).

If Lugaid is... harrumph... willingly enough to bring up a petition he should get our support but no bad vibrations.

nicethugbert wrote...

I think the petition is a good idea. We should be specific and reasonable in what we ask for.

A toolset like in NWN2. And a single player campaign like MotB or SoZ. Oops, oh, looks like I'm requesting NWN3. So let us forget the latter, let's focus on a reasonable toolset (or 'Forge').

[MokahTGS]

I'm not sure why people think NWNMMO is going to have an out of game toolset like NWN2.  Cryptic already made an MMO with an in game toolset for creating adventures exactly like what they are describing for the new NWNMMO. 

Look at City of Heroes Mission Architect for the future** of NWNMMO.










**All comments are baseless assumptions of The Grumpy Strumpet and all known affiliates.  Comments about the future have not been evaluated by the FDA and should not be used to diagnose, treat or cure any known or unknown malady, disease, habit, or symptom.  All people mentioned in all statements regarding the future are purely coincidental and not due in part or whole to any time travel, transcendental relocation, or mystical scrying.  No animals were harmed in the posting of these comments; accept for the wombats, which had it coming.

Modifié par MokahTGS, 25 août 2010 - 08:59 .

[Ingthar]

MokahTGS wrote...

I'm not sure why people think NWNMMO is going to have an out of game toolset like NWN2.

Maybe we do not expect it. But, we dream of it. So we name it for Lugaid's petition.

Don't harm the wombats!

[Ticladesign]

The link to the architect website doesnt work.

[SuperFly_2000]

Please change the topic title to "About Neverwinter online" instead.

It is not going to be an MMO anyway. Well...maybe some parts of it...but still the developers are taking a stance from it, which is ground breaking and deserves posters to stop mis-interpreting it.

Modifié par SuperFly_2000, 26 août 2010 - 09:13 .

[nicethugbert]

Title fixed.

[barfoobaz]

Actually it's amusing that I now fear that it may not be enough of an MMO.

I think actually they planned to develop an MMO but had to dodge the Turbine lawsuit. (I suspect their initial work was in that direction.)

Now its five player co-op. Ugh. I hope thats just one mode of play and we can do 60 people PWs. But the ability to run your own server is far from guaranteed.

They are touting a toolset they are calling "Forge" but who knows what it'll be able to do. Remember I don't think any of the NWN1/2 work is licensed, this is a brand new beast.

I'd love it if Atari/Cryptic would do a little outreach and start working with the community now.

- Bar

Modifié par barfoobaz, 28 août 2010 - 02:06 .

[Tonytobinus]

Regarding the five person teams, I am amused that Mr. Emmert makes the assumption that every team will be composed of one of each class. This is the kind of mindset that earned him a lot of criticism over in city of heroes.



The man tends to have a very specific "vision" of how his game was meant to be played. To the point where he called it "the Vision" and took measures to counteract playstyles that did not match it. I don't think it was a particularly malicious attitude, just an absent-minded one.



Hopefully one of the lessons he has learned is to just give players freedom and trust them to have a good time without a specific intended experience.

[Haplose]

barfoobaz wrote...

Now its five player co-op. Ugh.

And it's really very different from DDO being 6-man coop....

Well okay, you can form 12-man coops for a few  top "raid boss" instances in DDO.

[Ticladesign]

A team of Rogues is a very potent one =p



Believe me, I was part of one such group in the PW Myseria2, and we got all the way to the end of the goblin dungeon. No Mage or Cleric needed, we dropped things too fast! =D



However.. in a situation where certain classes are absent, use a Henchman of that class, as you can do in Guild Wars. When I play GW, I actually have a whole team of henchies, and play on my own, most of the time, (Due to erratic playtimes, and my slow-paced playstyle)



So i'm not that concerned about finding a well balanced team. Let's first await more info about all this before starting some kind of community revolution, lol.