237 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

Hey, I'm in the 10 to 25 group. ;-)

As for MMOs, the fact of the matter is that some people are jerks, and the more you have playing a game, the more likely you are to encounter some. The example of Guild Wars given above is one which is actually nowhere near as bad as what you just described (which is why I kind of took exception to what SuperFly was saying, because it's a lot more mature than it could be) but still suffers from a share of stupid people. Apparently Lord of the Rings Online is pretty civil, though I can't vouch for that as I've never played it. This is partly down to the players themselves, though, as well as partly down to the design (a design which lets you grind and grind is always going to work against new players more than one where everything is pretty much capped and pretty low).

Modifié par The Fred, 28 septembre 2010 - 11:02 .

[dunniteowl]

Hey watch that crack about Old Fogeys MYB, I can still track the little 'uns in the arcades on the shooters like Area 51 and Chrono Trigger and I'll be 50 in about 13 days. Of course, I'm a crack shot anyway and like to keep the hand eye skills up.

I once had a crowd of about 35 or 40 people all watching me when Chrono Trigger came out. Of course that was a good while ago. Stll. My shooting skills are hard to beat even at 50 by most kids 30 years my junior. Experience counts.

dno

[MindYerBeak]

50. eh? Still a youngster then. I, too, was addicted to FPS games until one fine day Baldurs Gate came out. Now I'm addicted to RPGs. I'm a dab hand with a wand and have an itchy stabbing finger as a Thief. LORO is generally civil. The problems appear to start when schooltime ends, so the vets say. My experience with NeverQuest put me off MMOs, especially when the Devs were caught fiddling, were defended by the company and not sacked or even suspended. Lots of us left at that time. I know it was many years ago now, but reading the forums of Eve Online recently put me off them again. MMOs it seems aare nothing more than cash cows waiting to fleece the players. In NeverQuest if you died you had to run back from the starting point to recover your body, which could take an age. Lots of time doing nothing constructive, ensuring payment longevity to the company. In LORO you need to purchase NPCs if you're a casual player. I mean, 1 year just to progress in Eve Online? Such shenhanigins are the reasons why MMOs are forced to go F2P in my opinion. Players are leaving and not returning. Even when free you still need to pay for things in order to progress. Give me a single player game like NWN2 with Mods and internet play any time.

[dunniteowl]

I tend to play a bit of this a bit of that. I like PW play, what little of it I did on Dungeon Eternal (had a blast.) I like strategy games (and I don't mean those fake knock offs we call RTSs, which are a pretty heavy clickfest.) I come from the 'grognard' board wargame scene originally. So I have flight sims, tank sims, combat wargames, strategic, tactical and squad level stuff. I've got an old Sub Sim, all the Civs up to III (I think I'm finally Civ'd out) lots of adventure games and RPGs, as well as a fair number of FPSs and puzzle games. I do believe variety is the spice of life.

And on that note, I think that gaming has improved my mental capacity for memory, my hand eye coordination, my logical reasoning and spatial comprehension -- or at least kept them as sharp as I can manage to keep them.

dno

[Lugaid of the Red Stripes]

The thing that bothers me about NWOnline is that the DnD franchise already figured out a lot of these issues with the PnP setup, and they should really be trying to translate the pnp experience into a mmorpg rather than trying to make a DnD-inspired mmorpg. All these issues with players behaving badly, or gameplay devolving into repetitive, banal tasks, all that could be avoided if you launched the game with a corps of (amateur) dungeon-masters who watch over different areas, acting as a combination of a moderator, conductor, baby-sitter, and provocateur. Add in the same mixture of free, home-brew, and premium professional content, and you got a pretty model for growing a large, active community that will also be enthusiastic enough to pay for things on occasion.

[dunniteowl]

^^ This ^^

[Haplose]

MindYerBeak wrote...

MMOs are taking a hit, hence the Free2Play options coming out on all MMOs. It could boost their memberships by as much as 500%. NeverQuest 2 is also going F2P. It stands to reason that NWN Online, if an MMO, will also go the same way.

MMOs are designed to suck you dry of your money. It would take forever to travel from A to B on foot, so you can buy a horse at the online store, for example. To get anywhere in Eve Online you need to play for a YEAR in order to become proficient, 3 years before some of the better guilds will accept you. You zip off to mine an asteroid only to find a Guild has been there before you and mined everything in site. Then there are the spammers, twits and campers to contend with, and level 60s PVPing the n00bs. I had enough of such aggro on NeverQuest and have never played MMOs since. If NWN Online is an MMO you can be sure such problems will exist, and Atari, being the greedy beast it is, will try and fleece as much cash as it possibly can from players.

Game companies target the 10 to 25 age group, they don't cater for us Old Fogeys, hence an abundance of First Person Shooters and too few simulations and RPG games. Even Dragon Age is reminiscent of an FPS at times, with a little RPG thrown in. An overwhelming number of baddies caters for the FPS crowd. That's how it seems to me at times. A Neverwinter MMO is unlikely to peek my interest, unless it's outstanding and free from spammers/campers, which is unlikely. All MMOs suffer from such problems.

DDO is a cooperative MMO and doesn't really suffer from the issues listed. All quest areas are instanced, so there are no interactions with members of other parties. No competition to kill "Raid Bosses" or camping/pvp-ing for other profits. Actually PvP was added as an afterthought, is limited to small arenas in tawerns, purely optional and a non-factor. There is a limited number of levels and you can reach the cap in a relatively short time.

It has it's problems too, sure. Monty Haul loot, rerolls of established players who start with uber equipment and detailed knowledge of quest locations, which leads to racing through quests to finish/get the reward - if they are present in your party. Most importantly gets repetetive and old after a while.

But frankly I have a really hard time seeing how NWN3, considering how it's advertised, can be different and significantly better then DDO.

[Shallina]

They should make a real MMO in the DnD universe. Not a little instanced thing.



HOW to avoid to many player on a spot ? really easy, lot of content is the answer. Basically making a real MMO with a lot of thing to do and not an half assed game.

[The Fred]

I was never really very good at FPSs, but I *was* like a Pacman prodigy back in primary school. I would play a Pacman MMO for sure.

The thing with Free-to-play MMOs is that to keep going, they either need to keep expanding or to sell "extras". I know Guild Wars took a brave decision by refusing to sell extra with actual game significance (they do sell cosmetic extras and storage space, though), but as a result the support for the game has kind of dwindled (I guess all their people are working on GW2). However, building an MMO is a whole different kettle of fish to building a Single Player game; I personally wouldn't want to try it. Still, we can wait and hope, I guess.

Modifié par The Fred, 29 septembre 2010 - 12:05 .

[kamalpoe]

Lugaid of the Red Stripes wrote...
 a corps of (amateur) dungeon-masters

No such thing as AOL found out in a class action lawsuit over "volunteer" mods for their chatrooms.

[MindYerBeak]

I'd sign up for a Pacman MMO provided you didn't need to buy an orse.



Civ 5 is out, now with hexagonal tiles, worthy graphics and no more armies of doom. As always I'll wait a few months until it's properly patched with good player reviews before I purchase.



The Mods in NeverQuest were volunteers, or perhaps elected volunteers. Two of them were caught on the fiddle, so perhaps paid non-playing Mods would be the best answer. That way there'd be no incentive for them to cheat as did the NeverQuest Mods. It must be difficult knowing where an uber RodOf EverlastingOofishness would be and not be tempted to nick it. Being paid a good wage - which a popular MMO could do - would encourage Mods to toe the line.



If they follow the D&D rules there shouldn't be any nerfing problems related to game balance, since it's basically inbuilt. Quests should be updated regularly with few if any Fedex quests. With a recession taking hold I think players are now reluctant to spend their hard earned having to run long distances to quests or reclaim their bodies. It's time wasting and the players know why it's being done, to make more money out of players. If the NWN MMO did away with this practice I'm sure it would boost their membership. Imagine being killed in DAO and having to run back to the Mines from the Korcari Wilds.

[RazorrX]

I would like to have a broad open world with instanced quests. Just my preference. Kind of ruins the immersion if you are doing the tomb of horrors and there are 50 other people doing the same quest right with you, etc. So dungeons as instances are cool to me, but would very much like to see vast sweeping outdoor areas open, and populated with people and monsters, etc.



Another thing that I *hope* to see is randomness in the dungeons themselves. IF there is ANY way to randomize trap locations, etc. then I really hope they do. After playing DDO for 4 years, I knew most of the dungeons inside and out, could do them blindfolded.

[Seagloom]

Eurogamer Interview



Jack Emmert lets slip a few new tidbits this time around.

[Banshe]

Yeah. Interesting... But someone should shoot the interviewer:



"Eurogamer: The Neverwinter Nights toolset cheapened the game content for me. I had access to all the monsters, all the items, everything - the incentive to keep playing the game to gather the best equipment was gone."



Also interesting to know they are hiding amongst us now, checking the content on the vault and reading these boards:



"...Neverwinter Nights people. People have done a lot of great mods and stuff. We researched that in secret and we definitely want to reach out to them because we want to make sure that the people who made great Neverwinter Nights mods over the years are included into the process of developing our UGC tools and really part of where we take this game."



If they steal Hellfire et al., I'm going to be pissed...

[Hellfire_RWS]

Banshe wrote...

If they steal Hellfire et al., I'm going to be pissed...

No comment

[Banshe]

Hellfire_RWS wrote...

Banshe wrote...

If they steal Hellfire et al., I'm going to be pissed...

No comment

That better not mean what I think it does...

[painofdungeoneternal]

The thing i wondered at, not that it matters since it's 4th edition, but it seems like it is not even using d20 type rules. More akin to them making a video game based on a D&D movie and the setting than based on the game system. Bet this is the combat system they already have in place.

For instance, there's no two-hit roll. We've used boons in a slightly different manner. Hit-points aren't exactly the same. But, by and large, the structure is similar. It's not turn-based.



There are dice rolls going on, but it's not turn-based in the sense that you can pause it. You target something, you attack, you swing. The random aspect is going to be how much damage you do, and that's affected by your feats and abilities.



It's not an action-RPG, but it's also not straight D&D where you roll a die to hit.

I would not worry too much, if they take hellfire he gets a new day job. He really should work full time making models for games. Hopefully they give him time off which he can do things which he wants to do ( and don't force a non compete, and that he does not get tired of it all ). Really we need great D&D games no matter where they come from or who does them, more people playing D&D online means more people overall who will check out NWN2, NWN1 and Dragon Age.



I think they will take some of the folks making stories and see what they need. It should not hurt NWN2 really, it won't affect me since my focus is on the actual gameplay, rules and scripting. While i might be able to give advice, i rather doubt they will do something which allows me to add new spells, new scripting sytems, new items and features like i can do in NWN2. ( much less allow me to start creating magic circle spells which allow the characters to bind and bargain demons, i'm sure they would not touch that with a ten foot pole even if it's actually in D&D )

[MasterChanger]

Banshe wrote...

Yeah. Interesting... But someone should shoot the interviewer:

"Eurogamer: The Neverwinter Nights toolset cheapened the game content for me. I had access to all the monsters, all the items, everything - the incentive to keep playing the game to gather the best equipment was gone."

What, you mean the game had to actually live or die based on the quality of the adventure, areas, characters, and story itself, rather than on promising you the next Phat Lewt if you just played a little bit more?

There are some very different things that players get out of NWN, a variety of ways to play blah blah blah. But if an interviewer makes a statement like this, then clearly they don't understand the NWN community at all.

[MokahTGS]

Eurogamer: You've mentioned there's going to be a fee to play Neverwinter. Is that right?



Jack Emmert: I did. We haven't talked about the business model at all. We've got some things planned.

and they lost me...

[Banshe]

MasterChanger wrote...

Banshe wrote...

Yeah. Interesting... But someone should shoot the interviewer:

"Eurogamer: The Neverwinter Nights toolset cheapened the game content for me. I had access to all the monsters, all the items, everything - the incentive to keep playing the game to gather the best equipment was gone."

What, you mean the game had to actually live or die based on the quality of the adventure, areas, characters, and story itself, rather than on promising you the next Phat Lewt if you just played a little bit more?

There are some very different things that players get out of NWN, a variety of ways to play blah blah blah. But if an interviewer makes a statement like this, then clearly they don't understand the NWN community at all.

Exactly. It almost offends me that someone would play any game like that, much less NWN2. Even if you like having the best equipment, the fact that you lose the incentive to play if you can get the best loot through using the toolset... What about the challenge of getting the best loot? What about the joy of discovering the best loot?

And finally, the interviewer must lose the incentive to play lots of games as cheat codes are a regular part of gaming these days (god mode, get item, autokill, even autowin).

[I_Raps]

MokahTGS wrote...


and they lost me...

... and me.

[Seagloom]

I admit the fact they are charging a fee lowers my chances of buying this nearly to zero. I own one pay to play online game and it's still in plastic wrap. I'll still keep an eye on Neverwinter but all signs point to me trying out Guild Wars 2 instead. Of course I'll also continue playing NWN1&2.

The comment about NWN's toolset was also vexing. I literally facepalmed when I read it. Bashe summed up the rest of my thoughts on that.

Modifié par Seagloom, 05 octobre 2010 - 11:38 .

[MerinTB]

Dunno -

interview looked good to me.



But I still don't like monthly fees. I'm not against them - I just haven't had a game where I wanted to keep paying to keep playing.



I'm intrigued by what TOR and NWN Online might mean for online role-playing. I'm excited to see what happens, moreso than I am for the games at this point.

[The Fred]

Banshe wrote...

MasterChanger wrote...

Banshe wrote...
...
"Eurogamer: The Neverwinter Nights toolset cheapened the game content for me. I had access to all the monsters, all the items, everything - the incentive to keep playing the game to gather the best equipment was gone."

...But if an interviewer makes a statement like this, then clearly they don't understand the NWN community at all.

Exactly. It almost offends me that someone would play any game like that, much less NWN2. Even if you like having the best equipment, the fact that you lose the incentive to play if you can get the best loot through using the toolset... What about the challenge of getting the best loot? What about the joy of discovering the best loot?

And finally, the interviewer must lose the incentive to play lots of games as cheat codes are a regular part of gaming these days (god mode, get item, autokill, even autowin).

Totally agree. I can see that getting all the cool stuff early on would spoil the game (and I'm giving the interviewer the benefit of the doubt here and hoping he simply meant that, and not that the only reason for playing the game was to get the stuff) but using the toolset to give yourself stuff is cheating. It's the same as using a cheat code. You're using an out-of-game resource to affect your game, it's like using a saved game editor or something.

And to say the toolset cheapened the experience shows a complete lack of understanding of it. Clearly the interviewer is talking about playing the Original Campaign and how the toolset impacted it. Really, the toolset is the game and the OC is just a demo. That's how NWN1 has first explained to me (a 4-chapter, many-hours-long, epic demo, maybe, but still just a demo in terms of the phenomenal power of the toolset) and that's how I still like to think of the game.

I am slightly paranoid about stealth researchers on these boards, but if they want something to read they can read that.

Also:

Eurogamer: Would those lucky folks be people that frequent your community site?
Jack Emmert: Yeah, yeah, it might be that, it might also [be] by Neverwinter Nights people.

This made me raise my eyebrows. Of course, while being able to playtest a new MMO might be quite cool, I don't think they'd necessarily get what they expect with NWN playtesters (unless they expect a highly skeptical and critical reviewer).

Modifié par The Fred, 06 octobre 2010 - 08:33 .

[Banshe]

The stealth researchers do make you read some positive posts here a little differently. And they already have gotten their talons into Hellfire. j/k



I suppose one of two things is happening:



1. They say they came here because it means that they are pay lip service to the NWN fans. It is the reason why you see NWN-specific terminology in the interviews. But perhaps they are not here.



2. They have come and they have asked certain people in the community to highlight what they want in an NWN Online game. Especially with regards to the toolset. But there isn't any way an MMO's toolset can equal NWN's toolset.