272 réponses à ce sujet

[Skirlasvoud]

I always thought Samara's outfit makes sense.


As for her style, the high heels and the like: 

Asari always pride themselves with their style and art.  And anyone who is exceedingly good at what they do while they are supposed to strike a symbolic presence, are allowed their excentricities and little embelishments. Samourai often wore highly ornate armors, which made them look like demons. Royal European knights wore golden streaks through their armor  and wore usseless trinkets such as religous artefacts to give them strength.

Coupled with Asari tastes, this might be a Justicar's way of making her presence and identity known as a "warrior-monk"


As for the cleavage: Justicar's rarely leave Asari space. Meaning that these "women" ussually only frequent areas with other "women". It's not like there was any urgent need to cover up. It's only a problem now that she meets people who might have an oppinion of cleavage.
(Yes you... you and your dirty mind. Shame on you!)

And who knows? Maybe this red outfit is her idea of "suiting up". In Asari space and as someone who can deflect bullets and blows with her mind, I immagine there might well be no need to wear anything... at all.

[KateKane]

It's shallow fanservice.
Samara, Miranda, and Jack all look absurd in the name of fanservice. I know you guys were trying to get in on that 'idiot shooter fanboy' crowd that people think represent the bulk of gamers these days, but try to have a little more class than that Bioware.

I wouldn't even mind that much if it was just casual wear that you only saw them in on the ship, but no. They're dressed like ****s while fighting monsters, robots, and dark jedi.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Yeah but now everything is suddenly " Fan Service"



Everything from here on out that has anything to do with looks will automatically be " Fan Service" or the continuation of any character will be " Fan Boy/Fan Girlism".

[Siansonea]

Skirlasvoud wrote...


I always thought Samara's outfit makes sense.


As for her style, the high heels and the like: 

Asari always pride themselves with their style and art.  And anyone who is exceedingly good at what they do while they are supposed to strike a symbolic presence, are allowed their excentricities and little embelishments. Samourai often wore highly ornate armors, which made them look like demons. Royal European knights wore golden streaks through their armor  and wore usseless trinkets such as religous artefacts to give them strength.

Coupled with Asari tastes, this might be a Justicar's way of making her presence and identity known as a "warrior-monk"


As for the cleavage: Justicar's rarely leave Asari space. Meaning that these "women" ussually only frequent areas with other "women". It's not like there was any urgent need to cover up. It's only a problem now that she meets people who might have an oppinion of cleavage.
(Yes you... you and your dirty mind. Shame on you!)

And who knows? Maybe this red outfit is her idea of "suiting up". In Asari space and as someone who can deflect bullets and blows with her mind, I immagine there might well be no need to wear anything... at all.

I posted something similar earlier in the thread. Yes, from a meta-game standpoint the outfit was designed by 21st Century humans to look cool in a video game, and hopefully inspire lust in 13-year-old boys. But within the game universe, the outfit isn't at all scandalous/improper/slatternly/unrealistic. The asari aren't human. They all have boobies, so they have no special mystique among the asari themselves. Samara's cleavage is probably pretty tame and old-fashioned to the cosmopolitan asari. Suddenly humanity arrives on the galactic scene, and the asari are accused of being overly suggestive in their clothing. I'm sure the asari response would be something along the lines of "lolwut?".

[Vena_86]

Tup3xi wrote...

Those soft p0rn suits don't suit the game in my opinion. I'd rather see real armor than bare skin.

The you probably have/had a girlfriend unlike the target audience for this game.

[Elyvern]

AwesomeName wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Heavensrun wrote...

Why do -you- assume that a mystic warrior from an alien culture would have values and fashion rules even vaguely related to our own?  A mystic warrior woman from some cultures might run around completely topless.  That doesn't mean she's "flaunting what isn't for sale", it just means she comes from a culture where mystic warrior women don't wear shirts.

Why impose -your- standards on a character from a different planet, culture, and -species-?

I can see the reasons behind your argument (even included it as an option in my poll) but it falls apart when you examine the motivations for putting her in that outfit.

It doesn't fall apart though because his whole argument is exclusive to a POV "trapped" within the mass effect universe - that's the whole point.  You see there are 2 perspectives to appreciate this whole thing from: the context of the real world, or the context of the ME universe itself...  You have to separate the two.  In the real world, yes it's pretty obvious she was made to look sexy to us - and we can appreciate that our standards have been projected onto these characters during development, etc.  However, within that universe, from the perspective of a character who doesn't know what Bioware is, etc., it doesn't make sense to project our standards of modesty onto them. 

That's bull****, unless you yourself are an alien from another planet where showing boobies is the norm, the fact is EVERY player that's plays the game comes from Earth and the majority of us from western countries with a defined range of what constitutes as reasonable in terms of body part exposure. Because if you want to posit it that way, barring complaints about censorship, bad publicity and all the shenigan about a company's social responsiblity, Bioware can make Asari run around naked with their private parts exposed. Would that make it permissible base on your argument that they are from a "different universe" than us?  

Modifié par Elyvern, 26 août 2010 - 05:26 .

[Siansonea]

"Hi, I have an absolute inability to suspend disbelief and immerse myself within a game experience without projecting my own subjective viewpoint upon every aspect of the game."

[Elyvern]

No, I haven't. My point is there is no way to isolate our frame of reference to any work of art, even if it's a piece of work that aims to create a maximum distance from our baseline pre-conceptions and social conditioning. To say that we cannot project our standards of modesty on the ME universe is to dismiss the perceptions of the target audience and the validity of their interpretation. Not that ME would be considered primarily a work of art in the first place.

[Elyvern]

AwesomeName wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

No, I haven't. My point is there is no way to isolate our frame of reference to any work of art, even if it's a piece of work that aims to create a maximum distance from our baseline pre-conceptions and social conditioning. To say that we cannot project our standards of modesty on the ME universe is to dismiss the perceptions of the target audience and the validity of their interpretation. Not that ME would be considered primarily a work of art in the first place.

Yes you have, it's ridiculous...  Of course you can project your standards onto the ME universe, within the context of this universe (the one we belong to) - I said that WITHIN the ME universe (i.e. IF you're a character in there, and that THIS universe doesn't exist), you can't.  Get me now? 

Rather moot, considering you can't wish away THIS universe and your existence in it, isn't it?

[theelementslayer]

I love samara, i dont care what they say she is totally awesome.

[Siansonea]

Elyvern wrote...

No, I haven't. My point is there is no way to isolate our frame of reference to any work of art, even if it's a piece of work that aims to create a maximum distance from our baseline pre-conceptions and social conditioning. To say that we cannot project our standards of modesty on the ME universe is to dismiss the perceptions of the target audience and the validity of their interpretation. Not that ME would be considered primarily a work of art in the first place.

I'm not saying we can't project our standards of modesty into the universe, no doubt many people in-universe feel the same way about Samara's outfit as the posters in this thread. My point is that the asari themselves do NOT share this view. Samara has no doubt been wearing some version of this outfit during her entire tenure as a Justicar, a career she began before humanity even arrived on the scene. The universe doesn't seem to be populated primarily by dual-gendered sapient mammals, the quarians being the only example outside of humanity that I can think of off the top of my head. Therefore, being overly concerned about covering their Lovely Asari Bumps doesn't seem realistic from an asari point of view. They ALL have breasts. Why would they feel a sense of modesty about them? Why would asari have a sense of modesty about ANY part of their bodies? A few decades ago, humans arrived and started gawking at asari boobs. I'm sure the asari just shrugged their shoulders and filed that little tidbit of info away, and went about their business. Why should they suddenly as a species change the way they dress because a bunch of lowly humans are weird about it?

[Elyvern]

AwesomeName wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

AwesomeName wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

No, I haven't. My point is there is no way to isolate our frame of reference to any work of art, even if it's a piece of work that aims to create a maximum distance from our baseline pre-conceptions and social conditioning. To say that we cannot project our standards of modesty on the ME universe is to dismiss the perceptions of the target audience and the validity of their interpretation. Not that ME would be considered primarily a work of art in the first place.

Yes you have, it's ridiculous...  Of course you can project your standards onto the ME universe, within the context of this universe (the one we belong to) - I said that WITHIN the ME universe (i.e. IF you're a character in there, and that THIS universe doesn't exist), you can't.  Get me now? 

Rather moot, considering you can't wish away THIS universe and your existence in it, isn't it?

Well at least you're finally acknowledging what I was saying all along...  

It's called a thought experiment that requires a bit of lateral thinking and brain power...  Christ...

My point is you can never truly divorce your social conditioning and preconceptions no matter how much you want to, so to say that we should approach Samara's costume entirely within the context of the ME universe without bring our personal sense of what is socially acceptable is not possible in the first place, no matter how much you think otherwise.  Anyway, I sense we're still at cross-wires here, so let's just leave it at that.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Wow, who new that a pair of blue ****** could turn an other wise simple subject into some quasi-debate about moral dilemmas and parallel universes.



Don't debate the things! Grab them!

[Siansonea]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Wow, who new that a pair of blue ****** could turn an other wise simple subject into some quasi-debate about moral dilemmas and parallel universes.

Don't debate the things! Grab them!

That's a good way to get a face full of Reave.

[HTTP 404]

Samara's cleavage doesnt look natural. it looks like a botched surgery

[Aradace]

What you have to understand OP, is that some people *glares around* are apparently prudes. If a woman (video game or otherwise) shows even a little bit of skin and not dressed like a ******* bee-keeper, they go nuts....literally.



However, my problem with Samara doesnt stem from her outfit....I used to not know why I didnt like Samara but Ive been milling it over and over in my head and finally come up with a reason why. To me, (and this is strictly my opinion before anyone gets their panties in a twist.) Samara's voice acting sounds somehow....."Robotic". The doesnt seem to be any emotion behind it at all what so ever. And yes, this is probably "part of her character" but at the same time, you can do a "monotone" voice without sounding like a bloody android lol.



Other than that, I have no issue with Samara. I used to think that I just didnt like Asari in general (Because I hate Liara too lol.) but I thought about it and I actually like Aria T'Loak and Shiala. I even liked Nelyna (spelling?), the greeter for the consort in ME1.

[Elyvern]

Siansonea II wrote...

Elyvern wrote...

No, I haven't. My point is there is no way to isolate our frame of reference to any work of art, even if it's a piece of work that aims to create a maximum distance from our baseline pre-conceptions and social conditioning. To say that we cannot project our standards of modesty on the ME universe is to dismiss the perceptions of the target audience and the validity of their interpretation. Not that ME would be considered primarily a work of art in the first place.

I'm not saying we can't project our standards of modesty into the universe, no doubt many people in-universe feel the same way about Samara's outfit as the posters in this thread. My point is that the asari themselves do NOT share this view. Samara has no doubt been wearing some version of this outfit during her entire tenure as a Justicar, a career she began before humanity even arrived on the scene. The universe doesn't seem to be populated primarily by dual-gendered sapient mammals, the quarians being the only example outside of humanity that I can think of off the top of my head. Therefore, being overly concerned about covering their Lovely Asari Bumps doesn't seem realistic from an asari point of view. They ALL have breasts. Why would they feel a sense of modesty about them? Why would asari have a sense of modesty about ANY part of their bodies? A few decades ago, humans arrived and started gawking at asari boobs. I'm sure the asari just shrugged their shoulders and filed that little tidbit of info away, and went about their business. Why should they suddenly as a species change the way they dress because a bunch of lowly humans are weird about it?

Your argument would be valid if it was the Asari that created Mass Effect. But the sticking point is the game was created by humans for humans, and generally people inhabiting the western hemisphere of Earth at that. To discount the validity of our social preconceptions and the fact that the Asari are conceptualised by human beings like us, and chalking it down to the fact that they get a free "get out of jail" card solely from the fact that they are an alien race is not tenable. And in case it's not clear, I have not argued for or against Samara's taste in clothing if you're gunning for that cause.

Modifié par Elyvern, 26 août 2010 - 07:14 .

[wizardryforever]

HTTP 404 wrote...

Samara's cleavage doesnt look natural. it looks like a botched surgery

Might not look natural on a human, but this is a fictional alien race we're talking about here.  The asari are a Bioware creation, who are we to say what is and isn't natural for them?  People can rationalize most alien quirks with the "different culture" approach, and people can be ethnocentric about everything if they choose (ie, our way is the only way and everything else is stupid/ridiculous/barbaric).  I don't have a problem with Samara's breasts, mainly because I don't really notice them, and haven't really since the first time I saw her.  Unlike what some people would have you believe, you can be a young heterosexual male and not be turned on automatically by cleavage.  I swear, some people seem to think guys ji.zz in their pants at the sight of cleavage.

Modifié par wizardryforever, 26 août 2010 - 06:31 .

[Relinquished2]

Blk_Mage_Ctype wrote...

All I'm seeing in the Alternate Appearance Pack Suggestion Thread is how Samara needs to be "covered up" 
That actually offends me a little... I mean, what, are breasts suddenly so unsightly that they must be covered up at all costs? Yeesh, no wonder ME2's sex scenes were toned down. If Samara's cleavage has offended so many people then Liara's side-boob must've brought these boards to it's knees.

Now, I agree whole-heartedly that Miranda needs Armor, (I myself want her to have the Cerberus Assault Armor in all it's bulky glory!) but what's so wrong with Samara showing some cleavage? 
Samara & Jack can get away with not wearing armor because they're uber biotics.

Personally, I like Samara's default suit, and I think it suits her well. Yes, it shows cleavage, but it's not like anyone has time to stare at it during a firefight. So what's the big deal?

I'm not saying I'd care if she got an Alternate Appearance without cleavage, I'm just wondering why everyone is pushing for it so hard.
Samara just wouldn't look right in armor IMO, even if you're going to cut the cleavage out, at least retain the mystic look of her attire.

Also, to whom it concerns, this was made separate from the Alt Appearance thread to prevent disruption of the topic's purpose. 

This can be easely remedied for everyone who wants Samara to keep showing her cleavage.

Pay attention, cause this is really gonna open your eyes and blow your mind:
 
You ready? ok.






- Just ignore Samara's Alternate Appearance Costume and stay with the cleavage one.

Probleme solved.