272 réponses à ce sujet

[ProdigalMaster]

Don't know about you guys, but from start to finish I had the impression that, in essence, we're leading/gathering a squad of oddballs in ME2. Unique/weird/insane/eccentric beings that might actually -consider- taking part in a crazy suicide mission. Almost each is one of a kind in every case, and certainly outside the usual norms of galactic society due to the things they occupy themselves with. As opposed to the more "regular" crew of ME1 (Two system alliance soldiers, one quarian, one krogan, one ex-C-sec officer, and one Asari scientist/archeologist) Sure, ME1 squadies had their unique elements and quirks, etc... But they did seem closer to the norm, a bit more "standard," if you get my meaning.

Remember the odd party NPCs from Planescape Torment? Floating skull, Gith'zerai psionic blade, tiefling rogue, animated suit of armor, succubus? Our oddball collection of mercenaries gave me a similar vibe in ME2, granted, not for all the same reasons, but still.

Due to the unique nature of the NPCs we're discussing, their sometimes weird outfits didn't bother me at all. Quite the opposite, they only enforced the feeling that this time you're really stuck with cooperating with a wild collection of various (sometimes conflicting) elements, and that's the only way you have even the slimmest chance of getting your job done. Your squad is filled to the rim with psychopaths, assassins, fanatical asari killers, salarian ex-special ops, tank-bred krogans and "one of a kind" autonomous geth. Oh yeah, and you're working for a black-ops human organization named terrorist by many. Not to mention that you're cruuuusing with a real 100% authentic AI on board of your ship, that's not insane at all! Oh yeah, and you were totally not brough back to life with a (probably unethical) procedure that'd probably make the scientific community of the galaxy crap their pants.

The tone, circumstances, and atmosphere of the game makes it clear that we're dealing with some really exotic elements and individuals in ME2. That's it's charm for me. Complaining that they dont adhere to the norms of the galaxy seems a bit silly from my point of view. But I guess it's all a matter of taste.

Modifié par ProdigalMaster, 26 août 2010 - 10:09 .

[MrnDvlDg161]

See that's the thing.



A certain creeping consensus is, female characters that will " put out" for Shepard should only be wearing such outfits...in which case there wouldn't be a discussion about the so called " environmentally logical space armor" --- AHhhh. I see. Poor crew member has to do the ole' Kelly Chambers routine... THEEEeennnn its ok.



You want to talk about moral dilemmas in space!



Shepard: You --- what the hell is that your wearing? Did I not tell you that we're going on a dangerous mission with possible environments that will require you to have suits which fit non-vacuum and hazardous environments!



Miranda/Samara/Et.al --- ( Flashes Cleavage)



Shepard: I'm commander Shepard, and I approve your battle dress.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Well I suppose Commander Shepard could have imposed a Mass Effect Puritan Clause that they had to sign before boarding his vessel:



To All Female Recruits:



Here in out, if thy clothes shall not shed for thy Commander then thou will use appropriate, all covering gear to hide any assets given to you by your creator.



Sign Here:

[Spartas Husky]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Well I suppose Commander Shepard could have imposed a Mass Effect Puritan Clause that they had to sign before boarding his vessel:

To All Female Recruits:

Here in out, if thy clothes shall not shed for thy Commander then thou will use appropriate, all covering gear to hide any assets given to you by your creator.

Sign Here:

lol. can't we just have em show w/e they want in the ship, but go with full battle armor outside the ship?...is it so hard?....

Simple answer... EA at work... plain and simple.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Spartas Husky wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Well I suppose Commander Shepard could have imposed a Mass Effect Puritan Clause that they had to sign before boarding his vessel:

To All Female Recruits:

Here in out, if thy clothes shall not shed for thy Commander then thou will use appropriate, all covering gear to hide any assets given to you by your creator.

Sign Here:

lol. can't we just have em show w/e they want in the ship, but go with full battle armor outside the ship?...is it so hard?....

Simple answer... EA at work... plain and simple.

Thats even worse, your turning an otherwise tightly ran warship into a floating  Bacchus Festival Cruise Liner.

Now..

Now...

You can't  blame EA or Bio Ware for this,  there's a whole lot of  Anime, comics, series, and some shady book companies that done let this type of thing become less taboo.  Soon as that damn Lady Death and Morigan Fairchild of Gen 13 came on deck --- it was down hill from there.

[Spartas Husky]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Well I suppose Commander Shepard could have imposed a Mass Effect Puritan Clause that they had to sign before boarding his vessel:

To All Female Recruits:

Here in out, if thy clothes shall not shed for thy Commander then thou will use appropriate, all covering gear to hide any assets given to you by your creator.

Sign Here:

lol. can't we just have em show w/e they want in the ship, but go with full battle armor outside the ship?...is it so hard?....

Simple answer... EA at work... plain and simple.

Thats even worse, your turning an otherwise tightly ran warship into a floating  Bacchus Festival Cruise Liner.

Wait wait, I gota get something straight, do you agree or disagree with the miranda, and  Samara's outfit?

I am not show w/e... not being that broad, t-shirt, short, long w/e.... their outfits right now I dont have a problem... could be because I am male, though, maybe I am being bias. But Miranda's outfit.... fits, for someone who thinks of her body of just another tool... although not to extremes.

And Samra's normal outfit is fine... would have add her a bit more light plates like the ones on her shoulders, across her abs, and legs... gives a bit more "biotic soldier" look... right now she gives me the impression of "biotic model" look.
Still... when they leave the ship, they have the same armor I wear... I want 3 heavy armed badasses .

2 of them behind me, watching my back, in N7 armor, or what not.

Having, biotic model over there, and skin tight crazy jaw behind me is not reasuring

Now... when it comes to jack.... she is just ona  different, level... her appereance, in the "alternantive" pack, with the vest and leather jacket, was pretty nice, reveals a bit of skin, and signals heavy tatoo work, without being all weird about the leather straps she uses. SO the alternative pack, was good in my view... very "merc with an attitude" look.

So in the end, I am not impliying for them to be more revealing.... what they have now is fine.... and jack in alternative appeareance is a nice default... any more revealing and it gets weird to have a normandy thought of "vessel with the deadliest special ops soldiers in the galaxy"....


Now when it comes to EA... of course they can be blamed, EA.... is all about bucks... they make games look good, and they are rutheless in their financial plans... sex sells, that is clearly EA's work.

Little tear here, little naked scene there... but not too much is a Bioware idea... we saw how that worked out in ME1.. which in my opinion was in a good balance.

Stripper clothing... dont think was BIoware idea.... then again I could be wrong, so dont quote me on it, if I am to stand in court

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 26 août 2010 - 11:23 .

[Epic777]

Her outfit, its the same as thanes.....

[Spartas Husky]

Epic777 wrote...

Her outfit, its the same as thanes.....

And shirt beneath his jacket/coat, would solve everything.

besides that, I dont really find anything wrong with Thane's outfit.

[MrnDvlDg161]

All Jokes aside.

To answer outright ... No I don't have a problem with such things. Did it cross my mind in a tactical sense? Yes... but then again I'm still questioning as to why they were all able to breath without masks on the Collector Base. I mean c'mon now... you even had Joker open the dang gone airlock door and he wasn't even swept away by a vaccum....and that was no planet either they were on.

It was space!

Albiet a strange space with an actual sky.

There are certain things that are left extremely stretched in all entertainment mediums. The more hard core will always vere towards " Realism". In my own opinion, the best Sci-Fi game yet that actually did this whole uniform/armor thing is Dead Space. You can't get any more realistic than that in my opinion...even when you entered Zero-G/outside the hull walks. 5 Stars for Realism.  Issac Clark and the enviorment of the Ishumora has not been matched yet.

They did a pretty good job as well with the beginning scene but then...if I am not mistaken... Joker should have been killed once he was taken from that barrier at the helm. 

The fact of the matter is, you need some lee-way in such areas in order to sell the universe for better or for worse. Sci Fi is going to have its own brand of essentrics as will Swords and Socerery. I think someone made the connection with the strange outfits of the Matrix world. Same deal --- you need to bring fourth something different with an eye-appeal otherwise you'll loose out.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 26 août 2010 - 11:39 .

[Jaron Oberyn]

The only ones who are worried about it are little kids who don't want their parents walking in on them when she's in the camera. She barely shows anything. Come on guys, grow up.



-Polite

[MrnDvlDg161]

Sides... its not like this Mass Effect: The Emmanuel Edition.



Its really light-core stuff.

[Spartas Husky]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

All Jokes aside.

To answer
outright ... No I don't have a problem with such things. Did it cross
my mind in a tactical sense? Yes... but then again I'm still questioning
as to why they were all able to breath without masks on the Collector
Base. I mean c'mon now... you even had Joker open the dang gone airlock
door and he wasn't even swept away by a vaccum....and that was no
planet either they were on.

It was space!

Albiet a strange space with an actual sky.

There
are certain things that are left extremely stretched in all
entertainment mediums. The more hard core will always vere towards "
Realism". In my own opinion, the best Sci-Fi game yet that actually did
this whole uniform/armor thing is Dead Space. You can't get any more
realistic than that in my opinion...even when you entered
Zero-G/outside the hull walks. 5 Stars for Realism.  Issac Clark and
the enviorment of the Ishumora has not been matched yet.

They did
a pretty good job as well with the beginning scene but then...if I am
not mistaken... Joker should have been killed once he was taken from
that barrier at the helm. 

The fact of the matter is, you need
some lee-way in such areas in order to sell the universe for better or
for worse. Sci Fi is going to have its own brand of essentrics as will
Swords and Socerery. I think someone made the connection with the
strange outfits of the Matrix world. Same deal --- you need to bring
fourth something different with an eye-appeal otherwise you'll loose
out.

Which Joker, being pulled into vaccum are you talking about? Aboard SR1... when sheperd shoves him into the escape pod... because int hat case... heck yes.

If is when the collectors attacked though.... no... EDI said she sealed the engine room.

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Sides... its not like this Mass Effect: The Emmanuel Edition.

Its really light-core stuff.

.....I have no idea what that ment....whats "emmanuel"??? thats military jargon, a name? a ship?

[Khaanmouq]

Spartas Husky wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

Sides... its not like this Mass Effect: The Emmanuel Edition.

Its really light-core stuff.

.....I have no idea what that ment....whats "emmanuel"??? thats military jargon, a name? a ship?

If he's referring to what I think he is, then he just revealed something about his age ... [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png[/smilie], that movie was allready a bit outdated, when I was young ... imdb-link inside

[Spartas Husky]

.....erm. thought he/she was talking about something else.... I suggest taking the link off, I think someone got in trouble for somethign similar before....... Moving on:whistle:

Armors, outside normandy dammit.... specially for jack... vaccumed sealed

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 27 août 2010 - 01:49 .

[brfritos]

Spartas Husky wrote...

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

All Jokes aside.

To answer
outright ... No I don't have a problem with such things. Did it cross
my mind in a tactical sense? Yes... but then again I'm still questioning
as to why they were all able to breath without masks on the Collector
Base. I mean c'mon now... you even had Joker open the dang gone airlock
door and he wasn't even swept away by a vaccum....and that was no
planet either they were on.

It was space!

Which Joker, being pulled into vaccum are you talking about? Aboard SR1... when sheperd shoves him into the escape pod... because int hat case... heck yes.

If is when the collectors attacked though.... no... EDI said she sealed the engine room.

Sometimes I have the impression that Mass Effect 2 was rushed in the market because of this factors.
Maybe I'm wrong, I will give you people that, but in the first game there a lot of attention to details.
We have lots of scenes were the Normandy or Shepard works in space or in hazardous enviroment.

For example, the first time you dock in the Citadel there are people working on the docks and as the Normandy approches my first reaction was "WTF, how can they work in zero-g without a suit"?
Then it was showed a mass effect field as the ship enters the hangar.
"Ah, so they are protected".

ME2 leaves a lot to be desired in the details, it's very crude.
The Normandy Crash site, for example, is very different from the game in general, the attention given to the scene is insane.
Take a look on the piece were the Normandy name is writing, the bulk door for the scape pods is in the same position you saw in the game opening cutscene.

And I'm not comparing ME1 x ME2, I'm only saying that I was used to a certain standard.

As for EA, look what they did with every series they put their hands on.
Medal of Honor and Command & Conquer are one of the many examples what they did to a franchise.

The first one was originally created by Dreamworks for the consoles and 2015 Inc. for the PC.
When EA LA took command of the dev, the games literally goes down the drain.
C&C was from Westwood Studios and developted by them.
Red Alert and Red Alert 2 was an Westwood creation and Red Alert 3 is an EA LA creation.

This goes on and on, it's really annoying.

And it's funny that in the beginning EA was not like this, they were a good studio, developer and publisher.
But today when you see a series were EA took control of the publishing AND development, you can began to scratch your head and worry about.

Modifié par brfritos, 27 août 2010 - 02:36 .

[brfritos]

sorry double post

Modifié par brfritos, 27 août 2010 - 05:59 .

[Spartas Husky]

Duno, I got the same feeling, although not so much as you make it out to be.



But I admit, ME1 had more "attention to detail" in my view.

[MrnDvlDg161]

Showing my age -- lol --- ouch.



I an't that friggen old

[PHub88]

Samara needs no covering up..



However...I do find it rather ridiculous you need to gain Jacks loyalty to basically make her put a shirt on...it just seems rather backwards to me.

[Iakus]

MrnDvlDg161 wrote...

The fact of the matter is, you need some lee-way in such areas in order to sell the universe for better or for worse. Sci Fi is going to have its own brand of essentrics as will Swords and Socerery. I think someone made the connection with the strange outfits of the Matrix world. Same deal --- you need to bring fourth something different with an eye-appeal otherwise you'll loose out.

The problem is that even science fiction and fantasy operate on rules.  How much those rules differ from our own reality depends on the world being written of course.  Mass Effect has eezo, for example.  But the rules of this world still need to be consistent.  Children of asari are always asari, regardless of the species of the father.  Mass effect fields can do X but can't do Y.  that sort of thing.  If suddenly the dangers of the vacuum of space become way more hit and miss (compare Shepard's suit rupturing to the outfits of say Jack and Samara...) this really hurts the suspension of disbelief in a story.

The fact that some of Shepard's crew (Grunt, Tali, Garrus) wear actual armor into battle while others wear spandex suits or even less(Miranda, Jacob, Jack, Samara), makes for a very colorful, but also very inconsistent world. 

[Xeranx]

PoliteAssasin wrote...

The only ones who are worried about it are little kids who don't want their parents walking in on them when she's in the camera. She barely shows anything. Come on guys, grow up.

-Polite

What did you think about Age of Conan giving the ability to play female characters who could be topless from time to time?  I'm just curious.

[zvbxrpl]

I, um, don't see why this specifically is a problem.  By which I mean, why are we focusing Samara's cleavage and not Miranda's catsuit*,  or the way ME1's female armor seems to conform to the hips and behind awfully closely, or Morrigan's cleavage, or the amount of tight leather and other fetishy outfits on the show Farscape, or every superheroine's costume ever?

To be more explicit about that last run-on sentence, Mass Effect is merely one case among many in science fiction which (a) has visuals in general and costumes in specific that sacrifice realism for stylishness, often in a big way**, and ( incorporates sex appeal into its female characters' outfits as part of point a, again, often in a big way.  Now, Samara's cleavage is just one aspect of how this shows in the Mass Effect series, as well as how points a and b are more pronounced in ME2 than in the original.***

Now, those tendencies are a big elephant in the room among sci-fi fans, and on one Dungeons & Dragons message board, a few members**** have come up with a simple mnemonic regarding a character's depiction.  It's the Frank Sinatra 'do be do be do' test.  The original form is--'Is this a character you want to do or is this a character you want to be.'  Made a little more technical, and a little less divorced from pen-and-paper RPG manual illustrations, it goes like this:  Is the first impression you get of this character primarily one of sex appeal or of coolness?  With Samara, there is sex appeal present, but unless you saw a particularly uncharacteristic or misleading (Misleading her would be something like straddling Morinth about to kill her) screenshot, it would be a secondary, tertiary, or even more insignificant aspect.  If, instead, you saw a good screenshot of a cutscene of hers, or a short video of her in action, you would probably understand what her character was about with the whole warrior monk thing, or at least get an inkling of some kind of martial and/or spiritual center to her character, and while she would certainly be attractive, she wouldn't really seem to be hypersexualized*****.


<Now come the so-called footnotes.  Feel free to ignore these unless you're interested in a few tangential thoughts not directly pertaining to the central argument of my post.>

* I'd imagine that this is because, at least in the 21st century USA, breasts are seen as the one female body part that are always sexual and almost always the most sexually notice-worthy part of the female form.  Samara's breasts are displayed, while Miranda's outfit mostly draws notice to her rear.  I'm not going to go into a long bit of overly revealing blather about my own turn-ons, but, even though I'm a 19-year old straight male, I don't understand this.  I'm not attracted to breasts, I'm attracted to women (at my age, this includes pretty much anyone over 18).

**I, myself, do not put special weight on realism.  If something looks cool and is realistic, that's no better than if it looks cool and is very unrealistic.

***Part of the complaints could come from a not-altogether-unjustified sense that the changes in ME2 are, as a whole, bad, and thus any change in ME2 is bad.  I think TVTropes calls this "They changed it, now it sucks."

****Yes, it's Astrid's Parlor.  No, I do not agree with everything every regular poster says on there.  In fact, I sort of think that it's a bit of an odd duck on the WotC forums, and I'm not entirely sure it has been a successful experiment.  I still think this is a handy rule of thumb.

*****I don't actually think Samara is a terribly asexual character.  Her asceticism is mostly focused on keeping her emotions under wraps, and any self-denial in terms of physical urges is done in service of that larger denial of passions.

[Siansonea]

It's not inconsistent. The squadmates who use biotics (Samara, Miranda, Jack, Jacob, Thane) wear less armor than the squadmates who don't use biotics (Grunt, Garrus, Zaeed, Legion, Tali, Kasumi, Mordin).



Things to consider: Biotics require a great deal of freedom of movement, the biotic learns a set of coordinated gestures that help them shape and control the mass effect fields they create. Bulky, constrictive armor would hinder those gestures. Also, clearly a person with biotic abilities can create a mass effect barrier that offers them protection that is as good as (if not better than) armor. Think about it, when a ship has a hull breach, a mass effect 'force field' is generated to keep the atmosphere intact and prevent further damage to the interior of the ship. Biotic abilities aren't just sparkly telekinesis. It is not unreasonable to expect that a biotic barrier can protect a person from hard vacuum, since mechanically produced mass effect fields do the same thing for a spacecraft or other structure that is sealed against a hostile external environment.

[Spartas Husky]

joking about the subject... is that if Miranda and Samara are the only females we find with balanced bodies..... it is sad to say the universe has gone down in diversity

[MrnDvlDg161]

All I'm saying is the hard core will find faults but it won't affect the story nor the game's progression in any shape or form.

In ME1, its generlly the Alliance's show --- so the armor part was uniformed like a standing military.

In ME2, your supposed to get a feel for a more  Privateer/Civilian Contract approach.

Modifié par MrnDvlDg161, 27 août 2010 - 06:08 .