232 réponses à ce sujet

[Marionetten]

Saibh wrote...

The Warden could not be a complete psychopath.

I think you need to look up the definition of psychopath before continuing this discussion.

Saibh wrote...

Abandoning Shianni for money is not a complete psychopath. It's an evil greedy bastard thing to do, but well within sanity limits. There are also justifiable reasons for doing so--like Vaughn says, you'd only cause more problems with your people for killing him. Personally, that particular Origin always bugs me since you can't say "Nope, I'm taking Shianni, you keep your gold, and you'd better let us go if you want to live". If Vaughn really was that stupid, he could have attacked you and you could have killed him anyway...but...I digress.

Greed combined with a complete lack of empathy. Sounds like the classic psychopath to me.

Sure, there were valid reasons to give it up. That doesn't mean that you had to pick those reasons.

Saibh wrote...

Everything I've read about DA2 suggests you're allowed to be vicious in your rise--not evil, but somewhere along the Warden's lines. In the end, you saved Ferelden, you stopped the Blight. You didn't just run off in Orlais in live in sin.

You could become a tyrant in Dragon Age: Origins. Stopping the Blight was a matter of self-preservation.

Saibh wrote...

I disagree. You cannot be evil and psychotic in Mass Effect. You are a Renegade--a hero with a flexible moral code, but ultimately a hero out to save people. You take a "kill a hundred to save a million" approach, every time, all the time. Even Renegade Shep thinks it's mean to pick on Conrad Verner.

Now I think you're the one trolling here.

Punching reporters in the face during live interviews isn't psychopathic? Renegade Shepard was definitely mentally unstable and extremely prone to acts of violence. Yeah, he gets **** done but not without breaking a few eggs for his own enjoyment in the process of doing so. Narcissistic and violent. Two more classical psycho traits.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 août 2010 - 12:25 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Punching reporters in the face during live interviews is not psychopathic

[Faust1979]

Kordaris wrote...

So it seems that now we are not only forced to be a obnoxious character called Hawke, without any choice regarding his race, name, history. Now it is getting even worse-we aren't even allowed to decide his relationships and are thrown into being forced to love and grief for his family members.

That's really dissapointing-I hoped I could at least direct my character. In addition-the forced feelings for some annoying sister seem irritating. As a single childre player I hope I can get to kill her, or give her away to Chantry, but from the looks of it, we will have to loooooveeee her, because Hawke is not our character but Bioware's.

you have the option of not buying the game then you won't have complain about it. 

[Saibh]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Mass Effect is awesome because you don't have a family forced on you

They are overrated, I say we kill them all

You had Helen Shepard. You might have only spoken to her once, but you are an adult with a career in the future, where extranet communication is possible. You're at least supposed to care about your mom.

Also, as previously mentioned, DAO had families and people you were supposed to care about in every Origin, excluding perhaps the Mage Origin. Did you hate that game?

Is this a trick question

Yes. I plan on winning the argument either way.

[Marionetten]

Collider wrote...

Renegade Shepard is a bit of an anti-hero to me.

Hannibal Lector is an anti-hero.

Just saying.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Punching reporters in the face during live interviews is not psychopathic

Sure. That's why we see government representatives running around socking nosy reports in the face 24/7. Yeah, no. No sane person in Shepard's position would do something like that. No sane person would give such a position to an individual like Renegade Shepard to begin with. But yeah, chosen one and all that.

Let's not forget that there was a whole background which easily justified psychological issues.

[Saibh]

Marionetten wrote...

Saibh wrote...

The Warden could not be a complete psychopath.

I think you need to look up the definition of psychopath before continuing this discussion.

Saibh wrote...

Abandoning Shianni for money is not a complete psychopath. It's an evil greedy bastard thing to do, but well within sanity limits. There are also justifiable reasons for doing so--like Vaughn says, you'd only cause more problems with your people for killing him. Personally, that particular Origin always bugs me since you can't say "Nope, I'm taking Shianni, you keep your gold, and you'd better let us go if you want to live". If Vaughn really was that stupid, he could have attacked you and you could have killed him anyway...but...I digress.

Greed combined with a complete lack of empathy. Sounds like the classic psychopath to me.

Sure, there were valid reasons to give it up. That doesn't mean that you had to pick those reasons.

Saibh wrote...

Everything I've read about DA2 suggests you're allowed to be vicious in your rise--not evil, but somewhere along the Warden's lines. In the end, you saved Ferelden, you stopped the Blight. You didn't just run off in Orlais in live in sin.

You could become a tyrant in Dragon Age: Origins. Stopping the Blight was a matter of self-preservation.

Saibh wrote...

I disagree. You cannot be evil and psychotic in Mass Effect. You are a Renegade--a hero with a flexible moral code, but ultimately a hero out to save people. You take a "kill a hundred to save a million" approach, every time, all the time. Even Renegade Shep thinks it's mean to pick on Conrad Verner.

Now I think you're the one trolling here.

Punching reporters in the face during live interviews isn't psychopathic? Renegade Shepard was definitely mentally unstable and extremely prone to acts of violence. Yeah, he gets **** done but not without breaking a few eggs for his own enjoyment in the process of doing so. Narcissistic and violent. Two more classical psycho traits.

I think I wasn't using the technical definition of psychopath, and instead meant someone completely evil and insane, which is where we are not seeing eye-to-eye. Do a switcharoo, and my point still stands.

I tend to use the word to mean "Hitler" and not "sociopath".

[Onyx Jaguar]

Marionetten wrote...

Collider wrote...

Renegade Shepard is a bit of an anti-hero to me.

Hannibal Lector is an anti-hero.

Just saying.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Punching reporters in the face during live interviews is not psychopathic

Sure. That's why we see government representatives running around socking nosy reports in the face 24/7. Yeah, no. No sane person in Shepard's position would do something like that. No sane person would give such a position to an individual like Renegade Shepard to begin with. But yeah, chosen one and all that.

Let's not forget that there was a whole background which easily justified psychological issues.

Pschological issues?  Maybe

Psychopath, no.  A psychopath would either be very destructive to everything around them, or do nothing at all at that moment.  Anger Management issues?  That is what Shepard has got.

And yeah I've seen politicians freak out, maybe not during interviews however because they are used to it

[yummysoap]

Ser Cousland.

[Saibh]

Marionetten wrote...

Collider wrote...

Renegade Shepard is a bit of an anti-hero to me.

Hannibal Lector is an anti-hero.

Just saying.

You had a problem with my use of "psychopath" and you try calling Hannibal Lector an anti-hero? Being Affably Evil is not the same thing as an anti-hero.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sure. That's why we see government representatives running around socking nosy reports in the face 24/7. Yeah, no. No sane person in Shepard's position would do something like that. No sane person would give such a position to an individual like Renegade Shepard to begin with. But yeah, chosen one and all that.

Let's not forget that there was a whole background which easily justified psychological issues.

People are not immediately defined as sociopathic and insane when they are a marine losing their cool to a snide reporter. Even Admiral Hackett said most people would have punched her.

[Marionetten]

Saibh wrote...

I think I wasn't using the technical definition of psychopath, and instead meant someone completely evil and insane, which is where we are not seeing eye-to-eye. Do a switcharoo, and my point still stands.

I tend to use the word to mean "Hitler" and not "sociopath".

The only instance in which I found myself unable to play my completely evil and insane mage correctly was the mage tower. There was no option to butcher every single templar in there and that disappointed me. It was either "**** the mages" or "let us all try and get along fairyrainbows and pixybutts." Thankfully, it went much better for my completely evil and insane noble.

Note that I'm not saying that Dragon Age: Origins didn't have shortcomings. I'm saying that it looks like Dragon Age 2 will have even more of them. This is unfortunate.

[Heimdall]

Saibh wrote...

Marionetten wrote...

Collider wrote...

Renegade Shepard is a bit of an anti-hero to me.

Hannibal Lector is an anti-hero.

Just saying.

You had a problem with my use of "psychopath" and you try calling Hannibal Lector an anti-hero? Being Affably Evil is not the same thing as an anti-hero.

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

Sure. That's why we see government representatives running around socking nosy reports in the face 24/7. Yeah, no. No sane person in Shepard's position would do something like that. No sane person would give such a position to an individual like Renegade Shepard to begin with. But yeah, chosen one and all that.

Let's not forget that there was a whole background which easily justified psychological issues.

People are not immediately defined as sociopathic and insane when they are a marine losing their cool to a snide reporter. Even Admiral Hackett said most people would have punched her.

Having followed this exchange for a few posts, I support Saibh

[Marionetten]

Saibh wrote...

You had a problem with my use of "psychopath" and you try calling Hannibal Lector an anti-hero? Being Affably Evil is not the same thing as an anti-hero.

Hannibal Rising.

Read it.

Saibh wrote...

People are not immediately defined as sociopathic and insane when they are a marine losing their cool to a snide reporter. Even Admiral Hackett said most people would have punched her.

Most people in Shepard's position wouldn't have. Which is why you don't see government officials doing that. They would be replaced.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 août 2010 - 12:43 .

[AlanC9]

Marionetten wrote...
Punching reporters in the face during live interviews isn't psychopathic? Renegade Shepard was definitely mentally unstable and extremely prone to acts of violence. Yeah, he gets **** done but not without breaking a few eggs for his own enjoyment in the process of doing so. Narcissistic and violent. Two more classical psycho traits.

Could we maybe say Extreme Renegade Shepard instead? My RenSheps aren't typically that far out there

[Marionetten]

AlanC9 wrote...

Could we maybe say Extreme Renegade Shepard instead? My RenSheps aren't typically that far out there

We could but isn't that a bit irrelevant to the point?

The point being that it's fully possible to play a psychotic Shepard.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I don't think you understand what psychotic implies

[Marionetten]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't think you understand what psychotic implies

On the contrary, you seem to believe that psychopaths goes around kicking babies. If that was the case they wouldn't be an issue. They would quickly be identified and removed from society.

A psychopath is not a mindless beast. It's a human being with a distinct lack of empathy. Typically, they are intelligent and extremely capable of blending into society. Manipulative, narcissistic and callous they have more than just brute force at their disposal.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 août 2010 - 12:51 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

Marionetten wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

I don't think you understand what psychotic implies

On the contrary, you seem to believe that psychopaths goes around kicking babies. If that was the case they wouldn't be an issue. They would be quickly identified and removed from society.

A psychopath is not a mindless beast. It's a human being with a distinct lack of empathy. Typically, they are intelligent and extremely capable of blending into society. Manipulative, narcissistic and callous they have more than just brute force at their disposal.

A sociopath you mean.  Someone with Anti-social personality disorder

A psychopath is not the same thing.  A psychopath does not have as firm a grip on reality.

[Vandrayke]

rofl I love how threads totally get derailed. What is or isn't psychopathic, what politicians do in real life compared to what shepard did, murdering antagonists as anti-heroes... gotta love it.

Either way the real reason why games hardly ever allow you to be completely evil is that almost everyone is going to be some version of heroic and a decent truly evil plot arc would have to be totally different. Since few people actually want to play a truly evil path, it simply wouldn't be worth it financially to make one available in the game; you wouldn't sell enough additional copies to justify the expense.

Modifié par Vandrayke, 26 août 2010 - 12:53 .

[Heimdall]

Marionetten wrote...

Saibh wrote...

You had a problem with my use of "psychopath" and you try calling Hannibal Lector an anti-hero? Being Affably Evil is not the same thing as an anti-hero.

Hannibal Rising.

Read it.

Saibh wrote...

People are not immediately defined as sociopathic and insane when they are a marine losing their cool to a snide reporter. Even Admiral Hackett said most people would have punched her.

Most people in Shepard's position wouldn't have. Which is why you don't see government officials doing that. They would be replaced.

But Shepard's a Spectre and therefore immune to most any political reprisal.  So why not

[Marionetten]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

A sociopath you mean.  Someone with Anti-social personality disorder

A psychopath is not the same thing.  A psychopath does not have as firm a grip on reality.

http://en.wikipedia....iki/Psychopathy

It's a rather broad term. I'd thank you not to misuse it.

Lord Aesir wrote...

But Shepard's a Spectre and therefore immune to most any political reprisal. So why not

Because he's a representative of humanity?

If you had that responsibility on your shoulders would you really make it your priority to make yourself look as much of an **** as possible? I don't see why any sane individual would. Most of us feel responsibility towards other individuals. Psychopaths do not.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 août 2010 - 12:58 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

That definition hasn't been used in years!

[Bobad]

Well I'm glad this particularly stupid thread is being derailed with discourse on the precise definition of psychological disorders.

[Marionetten]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

That definition hasn't been used in years!

You're right in that it isn't used in modern psychology.

That however does not change its meaning. Pinel originally described it as manie sans délire or insanity without delerium.

Modifié par Marionetten, 26 août 2010 - 01:10 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

If you would have just wrote that you can play Shepard as someone who is antisocial then it would be fine. Hell you can play Shepard as a Schizoid



I just want to play as someone who is Schizophrenic

[Vandrayke]

Bobad wrote...

Well I'm glad this particularly stupid thread is being derailed with discourse on the precise definition of psychological disorders.

rofl Kordaris definitely won this round