39 réponses à ce sujet

[AntiChri5]

Optimystic_X wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Did you know, that to use the pull ability you have to spend seven points?

Two levels of charge, costs three points and unlocks Shockwave (granted, all Vanguards are getting charge anyway so this doesnt matter).

Then, two levels of Shockwave costs three points and unlocks pull. This is the problem. Having to put points in a useless skill to unlock a good one.

As you pointed out , really you are only spending 3 points (not 7) because all VGs would max Charge anyway, so it's not so bad. I do agree that prereqs shouldn't suck though, but it hasn't hurt the VG's popularity any.

Its still three points im not getting back.

Again, I agree with your point, I was just correcting your math.
When quantifying an opportunity cost, you can't add in the decisions you would have made either way.

The original point was not how much was wasted, but how much was needed to get pull.

If an Adept really wants to be able to pull quickly, it isnt a problem.

If a Vanguard does..........it is.

[AdamNW]

AntiChri5 wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

Did you know, that to use the pull ability you have to spend seven points?

Two levels of charge, costs three points and unlocks Shockwave (granted, all Vanguards are getting charge anyway so this doesnt matter).

Then, two levels of Shockwave costs three points and unlocks pull. This is the problem. Having to put points in a useless skill to unlock a good one.

As you pointed out , really you are only spending 3 points (not 7) because all VGs would max Charge anyway, so it's not so bad. I do agree that prereqs shouldn't suck though, but it hasn't hurt the VG's popularity any.

Its still three points im not getting back.

Considering having Champion, Heavy Charge, Squad Cryo Ammo, and at least lvl 3 Incendiary Ammo are basically required, I don't think you'll be too worried about those three points.

And the only change from lvl 1 to lvl 4 Pull (ignoring the branch) is the amount of time they are in midair.  I don't need them in the air for more than 3 seconds because they will certainly be dead by the time it wears off.  Anything past Pull 2 is pretty useless.

Modifié par AdamNW, 25 août 2010 - 09:34 .

[mcsupersport]

The advantage for me in using Throw/pull in area format over shockwave is they track the target. Shockwave is fire and forget, but it also means that when enemies see it coming they MOVE!!!! You wouldn't believe how many times stupid mercs just move over a box and watch it pass on by. There are only a few areas were I will use it much, and generally would rather use throw area.

[NICKjnp]

Asking about one power is harldy going to get a response. Lets come up with other questions and concerns about biotics.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

It's weird though that enemy Shockwave (Scion) is very powerful - it rips through shields like a knife through butter, but when Shepard or his/her teammates use it (Insanity) it's nothing even close to that. I also don't like you have to target Shockwave - it would be better to be able to use it like Cone of Cold in DAO (area attack instead of attacking a specific target)

i hate this! shepards powers pale in comparison to harbinger and random scions.

shouldnt shepard be the biggest bad ass with the biggest bad ass abilities???? not jsut becasue its "shepard" but becasue its a game were poeple are expecting to be the biggest bad ass in the galaxy.

shepard < scion


heres my questions:

if your trying to make a unique game based on abilities, how do you end up with a game that ISNT based on abilities?

why does armor and shields AND barrier make EVERY ability i have useless?

why can i use throw and not use medigel or overload untill throw has recharged?

why does my adept play more like a soldier instead of an adept, and why does a soldier with slam play almost exactly like an adept?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 26 août 2010 - 12:13 .

[AdamNW]

There should be no reason for Biotics to be stopped by shields or armor.

Modifié par AdamNW, 26 août 2010 - 12:38 .

[termokanden]

Adepts are already more than usable. If biotics worked through all defenses, then it would most certainly be overpowered.



I'm not saying the current system is perfect. It's a little harsh on biotics. But adepts are still good.

[AdamNW]

Cooldown exists for a reason.

[termokanden]

Still, you can disable a group of enemies every 3 seconds, less with research bonuses. It's just too much.



It's also bad if you just disable really tough enemies like that. They're meant to be threatening. Nothing is if you can just Pull and it works.

[AdamNW]

3 seconds only applies to Pull, doesn't it? That's the least threatening of all of them. And most major battles have at least one of these scenarios:

1) Enemies have barriers
2) Enclosed area with no possible way to OHKO
3) Enemies are too large/heavy to move a significant amount to begin with.

There's also no reason for Pull to disable the enemy's ability to attack.

Modifié par AdamNW, 26 août 2010 - 01:08 .

[SonofMacPhisto]

Pacifien wrote...

So in thinking about the biotic powers, none of them fail on Normal difficulty. I might wonder why the developers created Shockwave when you can use Throw -- in what way is Shockwave a better method than Throw? Longer range perhaps?

It has longer range, in so much that I think it'll keep going until the level geometry ends.  You'll also continually hit targets downrange.  With pull or throw, that baddie standing behind your target isn't affected.

[mcsupersport]

You know I would like to see pull/throw/shockwave the area version not work on armor and barrier, and the heavy version work on armor/shields with with reduced time/damage, but get full rag-doll effect. This would give you knock around power for one enemy in pull/throw, make shockwave useful above veteran and worthy of the cooldown, while letting those who want area give up effecting everyone.

This would also make a very viable reason to choose heavy on those talents versus wide.

Only singularity would I not change, because it is close to overpowered as is when used against bosses and the like. The pure holding ability is awesome to behold, though I wouldn't mind if it held longer and was bigger as well.

Modifié par mcsupersport, 26 août 2010 - 01:13 .

[termokanden]

Yep I think that's a very good idea. More fun using biotics this way without overpowering them completely.

[The Spamming Troll]

personally i dont think there should even be a choice present at master level. master level should include the heavy and the wide version. theres not even much of a noticable difference between 1 point in throw or master throw. master throw should include the wide version, the heavy version, and also nuke every enemy on screen.

i guess that my biggest problem actually. biotics arent what i think they could be. i play mass effect for a few reasons but one of the most important reasons why i play ME is because of biotics, for the same reason i play bioshock for plasmids. mass effect and bioshock really implemented their abilities awesomely. these were the first two RPG-shooters i had played other then gears and halo so i was super pumped with anticip[ation for what i had in store for me in future games. but no other game ever did the same thing for me as ME1 and bioshock did. ME2 is a great game, its basically gears of war in space with a choose your own adventure which is really ****ing awesome, but the problem is ME2 did nothing for me like ME1 and bioshock had done before. its not like the matrix trilogy tho. the first matrix movie blew my mind, then i saw the second one and said what the hell. its hard to have your mind blown more then once, which is the reason im scared to see inception. but ME2 didnt dissapoint in that regard, it just left me wanting to play what is basically a combination of ME1 and ME2, which hopefully is what ME3 will give us.

i think the people in here, in this exact topic can formulate a logical and reasonable application biotics and more importantly ALL the abilities could potentially be in ME3, which is why we are all here in the first place. i know i have tons of ideas and obviously you do too. so why dont WE, THE PEOPLE, come up with what we think would be the best combat ME3 could have. it seems like such an easy fix, i dont see why bioware should be the only ones useing their brains here.......

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 26 août 2010 - 03:47 .

[RGFrog]

edited: ugg... sorry for the long post. I should stop posting after 10 pm.

In short: Shields and armor should protect against weapons with kinetic force (i.e. bullets, missiles, etc.) Biotic barriers should only protect against biotics.

-------------example, skip if you wish--------------------------

This way biotics would work against those only geared to deal with soldiers (armor+sheilds) and those with only biotic barriers should be just as vulnerable against guns as an unarmored character. Mix and match for the greatest overall protection.

Bosses would have all 3 layers of protection. Armor+shields would affect only the damage modifier but do nothing to prevent something like pull, throw, shockwave's, etc. toss effects. Barrier+sheild would protect from both biotics and weapons fire, but do nothing but affect the damage from melee. Sheild+Armor would protect from melee and kinetic weapons, but only affect the damage done by biotics, not block them as getting through the layers should weaken the biotic.

Each of the merc groups would have combinations specific to their roles. For instance, eclipse (being mostly assari and very technical) at each level would have shields, then shields + biotic barrier, then bosses would have all three (on hardcore and above) . Blue suns, armor, then armor+sheilds, then all 3. Reds, armor, armor + barrier, then all 3 (since there are biotic krogans aka Wrex). Collectors, barrier, then barrier+armor (like it is now, but would make the hardest class adept in the suicide run). The player would then need to rely on various squad members to make up for weaknesses, especially if he/she was a biotic.

As it is now, a Barrier and Sheild and Armor are interchangeable and don't seem to do anything different save for the grpahics tha represent them.

----------------end example-----------------------------------

Finally, the question: Is the adept nerfed at tougher game modes in order to showcase the soldier class as the ultimate, since this is a shooter with a story? If so, will a bullet be the only thing capable of taking care of a reaper?

Modifié par RGFrog, 26 août 2010 - 06:24 .