48 réponses à ce sujet

[Bozorgmehr]

OniGanon wrote...

So what exactly is happening with Cryo Ammo and shotguns?

A shotgun with Cryo Ammo will almost certainly freeze an enemy on the same shot that strips their defense.

Do individual shotgun pellets have different travelling speeds or something?



Also, say Shepard has +Power Damage from an evolved passive or armor or something, and Jacob uses Squad Incendiary Ammo. Does the Incendiary Ammo on Shepard's gun benefit from that +Power Damage?

Good point, I was wondering the same thing coz when using SG against protected enemy using Cryo Ammo they (almost) always freeze. The pellet theory might be right - seems like the only possible explanation. Damage is calculated per pellet so assuming they don't hit at exactly the same moment - damage is calulated for each pellet. Interesting coz it's something very useful for shotties.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 30 août 2010 - 08:00 .

[PsyrenY]

Any rapid/burst fire weapon won't have to deal with this too much. It's the heavy, single-shot weapons (e.g. Widow, Grenade Launcher) where this would be most relevant - e.g. firing your GL at a shielded gunship and being surprised at the piddly damage its armor takes, or mistakenly using your last cloaked AP Widow shot on Harbinger while he has some Barrier remaining.

[kstarler]

My guess is that the pellets travel at the same speed, but because they spread, the distances to target vary, so that they strike at different times. It would certainly explain why Vanguards with Inferno Ammo and Claymores are so effective against possessed collectors, for example. It would also explain why (at least in my experience), at higher difficulty levels, the geth shotgun seems less effective, since the lower number of pellets and smaller spread would mean a lot lower chance of breaking through defenses to apply ammo powers.

[RGFrog]

OniGanon wrote...

Also, say Shepard has +Power Damage from an evolved passive or armor or something, and Jacob uses Squad Incendiary Ammo. Does the Incendiary Ammo on Shepard's gun benefit from that +Power Damage?

Huh, i thought +power only affected Warp ammo... would be great if i was wrong. Especially if it works as you say with Jack's squad warp!

[termokanden]

I don't think Shepard's +power damage works if someone else uses a squad ammo power. I mean, it's not Shepard using the power, so why would Shepard's bonus count there.



But it's definitely true that +power damage works on ammo powers.



And by the way, Warp Ammo has no special status among the ammo powers. It has exactly the same type as every other ammo: simply an ammo power. It's not actually a biotic power at all.

[OniGanon]

+Power Damage/Duration affects Ammo powers. It's just that I don't know if it's the caster's +Damage/Duration that matters, or the user's, or both.

[ryoldschool]

I recently tested squad cryo on the Reaper IFF mission with various combinations of squadmates and weapons and Thane + Garrus with incisor were 10% faster than Thane + Garrus with viper. Maybe it is because the Incisor puts out 3 shot packets and maybe the 2nd or 3rd one breaks down to health and does the freezing.

[The Spamming Troll]

so enemy defenses stop abilites whether they are biotics, techs or weapons.........





way to go bioware. youve made playing insanity essentially gears of space.

[OniGanon]

Err, no your runs with the Incisor were faster because the Incisor is bugged to do full damage for squadmates.

[ryoldschool]

Incisor - Where was that documented? I haven't seen that.

[OniGanon]

[ryoldschool]

Incisor - thanks I saw that video a long time ago, but never paid much attention because I didn't have the gun until the recent dlc. Thanks because I read the comments along with the video.

[sinosleep]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Good point, I was wondering the same thing coz when using SG against protected enemy using Cryo Ammo they (almost) always freeze. The pellet theory might be right - seems like the only possible explanation. Damage is calculated per pellet so assuming they don't hit at exactly the same moment - damage is calulated for each pellet. Interesting coz it's something very useful for shotties.

I don't think it's just that. In several of my vids I set organic enemies with full shields on fire without even shooting at them directly.

[Khuutra]

I think we can assume that each shotgun pellet does not hit simultaneously, and if they hit an enemy's health then each pellet has a chance to cause an effect like burning or freezing. We don't even really need confirmation for that one, simple testing proves it.

The more interesting thing here is that since that's the case, shotguns also partially bypass the problem of damage calls only applying to one layer. If you take down an enemy's armor in one shot with Inferno Ammo and even one pellet makes it through to health, then that pellet - as a new hit - gets a separate damage call on health.

If anyone could give confirmation on that I'd be appreciative, but it's the assumption I'm going to run with for now.

Modifié par Khuutra, 31 août 2010 - 02:15 .

[Eric Fagnan]

Every shotgun pellet does an ammo power damage call and a regular weapon damage call, so that would explain why you can freeze or panic enemies on a single shotgun shot if you get through resistances.

[Bozorgmehr]

Thanks for the info Eric, this is really cool for shotguns and it explains why only shotguns are able to trigger panic/freeze (and I assume the weapon overheating effect of Disruptor Ammo) even against (fully) protected enemies as long as at least one pellet hits their health.

sinosleep wrote...

I don't think it's just that. In several of my vids I set organic enemies with full shields on fire without even shooting at them directly.

Yeah I know, I've seen most of your vids Sinosleep; and one of them convinced me to drop AP ammo on my Vanguard, thanks for that. Using Inferno Ammo is very useful because of the AoE. It explains why nearby enemies are (potentially) ignited while shooting (health) or killing an enemy close by. The damage call of each pellet is determined separately increasing chance to freeze/ignite nearby enemies. Shotguns are only weapons capable of triggering multiple ammo damage powers. That's probably why I like them so much.

[Athenau]

The Incisor in the Aegis pack seems to have a more reasonable squadmate damage multiplier:

[SFXGameContentDLC_CER_02.SFXWeapon_IncisorSniperRifle_CER_02];;The Incisor Rifle Extends the base Sniper Rifle;;It pulls some stats directly from the antimat rifle
;; GUIPrettyName=351642
IconRef=2
GeneralDescription=351643
ShortDescription=351820
GUIImage="GUI_SF_DLC_PRE_Incisor.InsisorSniperRifle_512"
;; Burst Settings
BurstRounds=3
BurstRefireTime=0.825f
MinRefireTime = 0.65f
;; Recoil
Recoil=(X=1.0f,Y=1.0f)
ZoomRecoil=(X=0.0,Y=0.0)
;;Ammo
InitialMagazines=5
MaxSpareAmmo=(X=84,Y=84)
MagSize=(X=12,Y=12)
;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;
bUpgradesBasicWeapon=true
;; Damage and Ammo
Damage=(X=53.6,Y=53.6)
DamageAI=1.1f
DamageHench=0.6f
RateOfFire=(X=600,Y=600)
RateOfFireAI=1.0
fMagSize=(X=15,Y=15)
LowAmmoSoundThreshold=4
bUseSniperCam=true
bIsAutomatic=true

Modifié par Athenau, 31 août 2010 - 09:46 .

[ryoldschool]

Atenau, thanks for that info on Incisor. Eric ****nan told me this when I asked him



I asked our weapon designer and he has verified this in the past and the henchmen do still have a penalized damage output on that weapon. Keep in mind that henchmen are very accurate with that weapon, and the weapon always fires 3 bullets at a time. Also, henchmen have unlimited ammo.

[Mr_Raider]

Damn! Obscenity filter wreaks havoc on the devs name. No one is safe!

[OniGanon]

Well alright. Strange that they seem to do so much more damage with it than they do with Mantis or Viper.



And yeah as I get further into my playthrough with the GPS, I'm noticing it doesn't seem to do the one-shot-freeze as reliably as the other shotguns. A second shot usually does freeze them, though.

[mozez101]

OniGanon wrote...

Well alright. Strange that they seem to do so much more damage with it than they do with Mantis or Viper.

And yeah as I get further into my playthrough with the GPS, I'm noticing it doesn't seem to do the one-shot-freeze as reliably as the other shotguns. A second shot usually does freeze them, though.

I noticed that too. I tested the GPS with inferno ammo and found out that it doesn't actually set the enemy you shot on fire, but it still has the AOE panic attack. With the Claymore and other shotguns the enemy you shoot are set on fire. I don't really know if that really makes a difference because a fully charged GPS can one-shot every enemy except krogans and sub-boss enemies.

[Edit]

After further testing it seems to me that the AOE panic attack from the Inferno ammo happens more often with the Claymore than the GPS. From what I seen and played the Claymore almost always causes the panic attack from one shot and while the GPS also causes the panic attack with one shot it is not as consistent. It could just me, but maybe other people should test it out just to be sure.

Modifié par mozez101, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:09 .

[numotsbane]

So in general, I'd say this is all good for weapons with low damage/ high rate of fire, but worse for shotguns and snipers where one shot is likely to cross over multiple defences.

Though I am a tad confused because I'm sure I remember hitting enemies with my widow/ mantis with cryo ammo and having them freeze, even if there was a lil defence in the way. as long as it got down to health...

hmm.

[Bozorgmehr]

numotsbane wrote...

So in general, I'd say this is all good for weapons with low damage/ high rate of fire, but worse for shotguns and snipers where one shot is likely to cross over multiple defences.
Though I am a tad confused because I'm sure I remember hitting enemies with my widow/ mantis with cryo ammo and having them freeze, even if there was a lil defence in the way. as long as it got down to health...
hmm.

I thought the same about SR + Cryo Ammo, but it doesn't work. Only SG can freeze protected enemies because they fire 8 shots at once and all pellets are handled like a single shot, so if 4 are needed to remove defenses, the remaining pellets benefit from other ammo power effects. This makes using any ammo power that does not affect the first thing bullet touches worthless. Using AP ammo against enemies with barriers or shield has no effect whatsoever and using AP ammo against enemy with only a tiny piece of armor left will ignore damage bonus against health completely.