Builders don't like to offer too many different involved paths because it's 2x the work (or 3x, or 4x, or more) for the same amount of gameplay time. If you make your whole game like this, though, so that people will actually want to replay it 2 or 3 or 4 times, you get that investment back. It's a big undertaking, though.
Choice and Failure in a module
Débuté par
kamalpoe
, août 26 2010 12:29
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#27
Posté 28 août 2010 - 04:46
kamalpoe
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Which asks the obvious question of what percentage of people replay a module? The path of evil intro module has four almost completely seperate paths, but I didn't see that many comments on it that people had gone back and replayed it to gt a different path.The Fred wrote...
Builders don't like to offer too many different involved paths because it's 2x the work (or 3x, or 4x, or more) for the same amount of gameplay time. If you make your whole game like this, though, so that people will actually want to replay it 2 or 3 or 4 times, you get that investment back. It's a big undertaking, though.
#28
Posté 28 août 2010 - 05:00
Leinadi
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It's not a problem for modules alone, most people don't replay full games either and a lot of people never even finish the games. There was a really great Obsidian presentation on choice in games at some gaming exp a while back, and one of the developers mentioned that not only is it of course more difficult to create a game with choice in it, it's also very difficult to convince a publisher to go for it because most people will only play the game once (and might not even get through that playthrough).
Immensely sad for someone like me who considers replayability a very important point of RPGs, but what can ya do? All I can say is that I definitely replay mods personally (if they're good of course!) and am very thankful for content that are unique to different playthroughs.
But I would argue that I find choice to be very important even if I just play a mod or game once, because if there is choice present, it makes me feel empowered. It makes me feel like me and my player are in charge. It makes me feel like I'm not simply being strung along a linear path. It's quite important I think, though I don't mind enormously in mods because I know how troublesome it can be to develop one.
Immensely sad for someone like me who considers replayability a very important point of RPGs, but what can ya do? All I can say is that I definitely replay mods personally (if they're good of course!) and am very thankful for content that are unique to different playthroughs.
But I would argue that I find choice to be very important even if I just play a mod or game once, because if there is choice present, it makes me feel empowered. It makes me feel like me and my player are in charge. It makes me feel like I'm not simply being strung along a linear path. It's quite important I think, though I don't mind enormously in mods because I know how troublesome it can be to develop one.
Modifié par Leinadi, 28 août 2010 - 05:02 .
#29
Posté 28 août 2010 - 08:06
Vaalyah
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@Dunniteowl: Sure, maybe you're right but... I've played BG2 about 3 or 4 times. Without mods, even if different NPCs lead to different side quests and dialogues, in the end the story is the same so... I don't think I'd like to replay the same game so many times one after another...
But probably I cannot really understand the kind of gameplay you are referring... :-(
But probably I cannot really understand the kind of gameplay you are referring... :-(
Modifié par Vaalyah, 28 août 2010 - 08:07 .
#30
Posté 28 août 2010 - 08:47
The Fred
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You probably do need to advertise the fact that a mod is replayable for people to go for it. The path they play also has to be good because they're not going to replay it if they don't like it as a whole, anyway.
That's (partially) why in my new mod I'm going for an "Origins"-type beginning, so that the game clearly has multiple paths from the very start. I've made semi-randomised and replay-orientated quests before, but this time I intend to do more of them, and work them in earlier, because a replayable quest is no good if you have to play through 3 hours of tedium to get to it.
That's (partially) why in my new mod I'm going for an "Origins"-type beginning, so that the game clearly has multiple paths from the very start. I've made semi-randomised and replay-orientated quests before, but this time I intend to do more of them, and work them in earlier, because a replayable quest is no good if you have to play through 3 hours of tedium to get to it.
#31
Posté 28 août 2010 - 10:04
Vaalyah
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I second the last paragraph by The Fred. In fact when I re-played BG2, I didn't start from the beginning but from a save point when I already was in Atkatla after having freed the slaves. The previous part was so... BORING!!!
#32
Posté 28 août 2010 - 10:31
PJ156
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kamalpoe wrote...
Which asks the obvious question of what percentage of people replay a module? The path of evil intro module has four almost completely seperate paths, but I didn't see that many comments on it that people had gone back and replayed it to gt a different path.
IMO this is about length of the module. I'm sorry Kamal I have not got to POE so I don't know its play length yet but I have had players replay Sheep and stone and comment on new material. But sheep and stone is only two to three hours. I think that swings it; I am not sure that many players will trawl through 6+ hours of play for plot deviations. In many cases unless you tell the player they may not even spot them. That is pretty sad given the time we put into this.
Other posts have mentioned that people don't finish mods, I think this is also a good reason for keeping mods shorter unless you are really grabing peoples attention hours of gameplay can be difficult to follow through to a conclusion. That said, it referred to players of the OC who buy the game. Some may just be testing out the genre or game. We deal with a more hardcore fanbase who love the game and will sometimes play anything to get a fresh experience.
PJ
#33
Posté 29 août 2010 - 11:36
The Fred
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Vaalyah wrote...
I second the last paragraph by The Fred. In fact when I re-played BG2, I didn't start from the beginning but from a save point when I already was in Atkatla after having freed the slaves. The previous part was so... BORING!!!
Indeed. That's where Candlekeep-be-Gone and Dungeon-be-Gone came from ("Dungeon-be-Gone" or "Dungeon-Begone"?).
#34
Posté 29 août 2010 - 01:55
Vaalyah
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Ehm, sorry, The Fred, but I can't understand your sentence. Being not-English, I cannot catch the meaning. Could you please explain it to me?
#35
Posté 29 août 2010 - 02:45
kamalpoe
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Candlekeep be gone and Dungeon be gone were mods for Baldurs Gate 1 and 2 respectively. They allowed you to immediately exit Candlekeep/Irenicus' dungeon, and gave you items/gold/xp as if you'd played through them. Useful for people that play those games over and over and got tired of going through the intro areas over and over.Vaalyah wrote...
Ehm, sorry, The Fred, but I can't understand your sentence. Being not-English, I cannot catch the meaning. Could you please explain it to me?
#37
Posté 05 septembre 2010 - 08:22
Vaalyah
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Thanks for the explanations! Yes, I can understand the meaning of those mods!
#38
Posté 06 septembre 2010 - 08:18
WyrinDnjargo
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kamalpoe wrote...
Which asks the obvious question of what percentage of people replay a module? The path of evil intro module has four almost completely seperate paths, but I didn't see that many comments on it that people had gone back and replayed it to gt a different path.
I've replayed maybe one user-created module, Ifrom what I've seen it's a minority that do replay.
#39
Posté 06 septembre 2010 - 02:55
nicethugbert
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Module replay ability would be an interesting topic in itself, play style accomadation vs. replay ability vs. suspense.
Modifié par nicethugbert, 06 septembre 2010 - 02:56 .
#40
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 09:59
The Fred
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Yeah it would. The thing with choice and failure is that by adding choice, you are adding replayability (but for more work). So if you don't care about your mod being replayable, choice is not that big an issue. A certain amount of chioce is good so that players realise they have choice, of course, but here it's more the illusion of choice that's important (though you need a little scope for actual choice in order to keep that illusion up).
