303 réponses à ce sujet

[Coyote Hunter]

trying_touch wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...

Oh God this crap again.

why are you being unnecessarily annoyed? it's a forum... people ask questions and often those questions get repeated...

Because every time BioWare releases a game, this is the question that immediately gets asked.  This thread ends one of two ways:

1. It derails into off topic debate of the human condition by first year philosophy students, or some similar silliness, or
2. A dev or mod ACTUALLY comes in here and answers the question.  Kind of.  There answer will be something bland and all in corporate speak like, "I totally support homosexuals as they exist in civilization, but as to whether or not we include same-sex adult relations in this particular project is up to whether or not we feel like we can do it in a way that fits our creative vision, while respecting the motives and seriousness that the characters and narrative deserve in these circumstances."

And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

[mellifera]

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

I fail to see how this would be any different for heterosexual romances.

Modifié par yukidama, 26 août 2010 - 04:34 .

[trying_touch]

yukidama wrote...

Yeah. If Hawke can choose Woman A, B, or C, I don't see why it is that big a stretch to let him have a relationship with Man A, B or C. Or vice versa for a female Hawke. Why his/her sexuality has to be set in stone even though we can choose pretty much everything else about him/her is just baffling.

this was kind of the case in mass effect... although i have a feeling there is same-sex romance in mass-effect universe, even between humans.... since as kelly said, para-phrasing, you can be attracted to others no matter what their beliefs, race, or gender...

and honestly, being able to romance asari as a woman is lesbian romance... no technicality around that...

hmm... how about a warrior gay romancable? rogues just make it seem like only traitorous sneaks will do gay hawke, haha...

[Saibh]

yukidama wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

I fail to see how this would be any different for heterosexual romances.

The only valid excuse is that it's a lot of effort and money for a feature very few people would care to take advantage of. It's not exactly the most pleasing thing to hear, but at least it's less full of skullduggery then claiming Hawke is too predefined to be anything but straight.

Modifié par Saibh, 26 août 2010 - 04:39 .

[eucatastrophe]

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

You know what they say about people in glass houses right?

Modifié par eucatastrophe, 26 août 2010 - 04:44 .

[Coyote Hunter]

yukidama wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

I fail to see how this is any different for heterosexual romances.

Say 200 hundred man hours of work go into the heterosexual romance, and 200 hundred man hours of work go into the homosexual romance.  If 5% of gamers play the game with the intention of pursuing the homosexual romance, and 50% of gamers play the game with the intention of pursuing the heterosexual romance, is the allocation of the work by artists, modelers, writers, the voice cast, the camera team, etc. as justified for the homosexual romance as the heterosexual romance?

Would you spend 20 million dollars financing two films with two different audiences if you knew that one would attract 5% of a group, while the other attracted 50% of that same group?  Would you do it if you knew that 5% would probably go see the other film the 50% intend to see anyway?

[Onyx Jaguar]

eucatastrophe wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

You know what they say about people in glass hosues right?

That they are only a banjo solo away from a ho-down?

Modifié par Onyx Jaguar, 26 août 2010 - 04:41 .

[trying_touch]

Coyote Hunter wrote...

Because every time BioWare releases a game, this is the question that immediately gets asked...

gay people who play these games probably play it for more than just that seven second GI joe doll sex scene...

it's just nice, you know? as a distraction from all the world-ending, army-building topics... it's nice that you can romance someone you in real life would want to...

it's nice to have options...

gays will take what they can get, even if it's rare... typically it's players who don't want same-sex romance who criticize their realism and validity...

gays are just glad it's there...

honestly, they'd rather have a bad gay romance, than not one at all...

[mellifera]

Coyote Hunter wrote...

yukidama wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

I fail to see how this is any different for heterosexual romances.

Say 200 hundred man hours of work go into the heterosexual romance, and 200 hundred man hours of work go into the homosexual romance.  If 5% of gamers play the game with the intention of pursuing the homosexual romance, and 50% of gamers play the game with the intention of pursuing the heterosexual romance, is the allocation of the work by artists, modelers, writers, the voice cast, the camera team, etc. as justified for the homosexual romance as the heterosexual romance?

Would you spend 20 million dollars financing two films with two different audiences if you knew that one would attract 5% of a group, while the other attracted 50% of that same group?  Would you do it if you knew that 5% would probably go see the other film the 50% intend to see anyway?

Well then, why not cut all "unpopular" choices from the game and just have it be completely linear with only what you believe to be "more popular" choices left in? It cuts out so much more work and money spent on the game than cutting out a couple romances.

Modifié par yukidama, 26 août 2010 - 04:44 .

[eucatastrophe]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

eucatastrophe wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...
And best case scenario for the people who want gay romance in the game: countless hours of work for an awkward seven second sex scene that resembles two naked G.I. Joe dolls being clunked together that will be viewed by a teensy pathetic percentage of people who actually buy the game.

You know what they say about people in glass hosues right?

That they are only a banjo solo away from a ho-down?

A D'oh down

[Coyote Hunter]

trying_touch wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...

Because every time BioWare releases a game, this is the question that immediately gets asked...

gay people who play these games probably play it for more than just that seven second GI joe doll sex scene...

it's just nice, you know? as a distraction from all the world-ending, army-building topics... it's nice that you can romance someone you in real life would want to...

it's nice to have options...

gays will take what they can get, even if it's rare... typically it's players who don't want same-sex romance who criticize their realism and validity...

gays are just glad it's there...

honestly, they'd rather have a bad gay romance, than not one at all...

I don't want to give the wrong impression, so let me stir the pot more gently.  I don't think there will be a gay romance in DA2 because it will be a financial decision.  I don't think there should be a gay romance because BioWare is bad at them.

If gay people actually liked the homosexual relationships in the previous games, by all means keep hollerin' for 'em, but until they can reach that kind of emotional peak with a gay character that they did for Morrigan or Alistair, I think that these characters beclown gays with their stereotypical or just poorly written behavior.  And that's why I'd personally like to see it ommitted until one of the BW writers prove that they can do it right, better than Hollywood.

[Mallissin]

This is why sexuality is more heavily censored than violence.

Everyone has their god damn preferences to how and who to ****.

But in the end, no one gives a damn how they kill someone as long as the person is dead.

Modifié par Mallissin, 26 août 2010 - 04:49 .

[mellifera]

I think there was more of an emotional peak with Alistair and Morrigan because they were more intimately tied in with the main plot, not because of their sexual preference. I didn't romance Morrigan as a female but I'm very sure asking Alistair or Loghain to do the Dark Ritual with her (or sacrifice myself or Alistair because I couldn't bear to let them) would have been even more heartrending as her female lover if that were the case.

Modifié par yukidama, 26 août 2010 - 04:53 .

[Spelling]

Mallissin wrote...

This is why sexuality is more heavily censored than violence.

Everyone has their god damn preferences to how and who to ****.

But in the end, no one gives a damn how they kill someone as long as the person is dead.

QFT.

Thanks for the lol

[Coyote Hunter]

yukidama wrote...

I think there was more of an emotional peak with Alistair and Morrigan because they were more intimately tied in with the main plot, not because of their sexual preference. I didn't romance Morrigan as a female but I'm very sure asking Alistair or Loghain to do the Dark Ritual with her (or sacrifice myself or Alistair because I couldn't bear to let them) would have been even more heartrending as her female lover if that were the case.

Now make a lesbian romance with Morrigan make sense and be interesting in the beginning and middle parts of the relationship, given your knowledge of the character's history and ultimate motivations.  Probably impossible, but that's some good Sally Sue fan fiction you got brewing, there.

[trying_touch]

i was pretty satisfied romancing leliana as a female character...


i liked her friendliness and general likability... though there was a bit of drama involving her personal quest, it was never drama that made it like our relationship won't work...


i liked that the homosexual romancables didn't have a doomed relationship... like you can't really be with morrigan no matter how much she loved you, or that, king alistair insists that he can't have a relationship with you, because the throne needs babies...


in the end, i don't think they were badly written romances... granted morrigan and alistair had more tragic and dramatic moments, but the lack of complication was refreshing enough, and appropriate for how i played the characters...

Modifié par trying_touch, 26 août 2010 - 05:04 .

[burrito]

I hope DA2 doesnt end up a gay romance sim or straight dating sim. Everyone demands romances though.

[burrito]

trying_touch wrote...


i was pretty satisfied romancing leliana as a female character...


i liked her friendliness and general likability... though there was a bit of drama involving her personal quest, it was never drama that made it like our relationship won't work...


i liked that the homosexual romancables didn't have a doomed relationship... like you can't really be with morrigan no matter how much she loved you, or that, king alistair insists that he can't have a relationship with you, because the throne needs babies...


in the end, i don't think they were badly written romances... granted morrigan and alistair had more tragic and dramatic moments, but the lack of complication was refreshing enough, and appropriate for how i played the characters...

I romanced Leliana as a male and I will admit the bisexual romances are alot less complicated then the straight ones.  Morri was **** and made you feel bad where you get the happy ending with Leliana.

[trying_touch]

burrito wrote...

I romanced Leliana as a male and I will admit the bisexual romances are alot less complicated then the straight ones.  Morri was **** and made you feel bad where you get the happy ending with Leliana.

my point exactly...and yeah... everyone wants a romance... so why not give it to them?

and happy endings (not a euphemism) are always a plus!!

[Saibh]

Coyote Hunter wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I think there was more of an emotional peak with Alistair and Morrigan because they were more intimately tied in with the main plot, not because of their sexual preference. I didn't romance Morrigan as a female but I'm very sure asking Alistair or Loghain to do the Dark Ritual with her (or sacrifice myself or Alistair because I couldn't bear to let them) would have been even more heartrending as her female lover if that were the case.

Now make a lesbian romance with Morrigan make sense and be interesting in the beginning and middle parts of the relationship, given your knowledge of the character's history and ultimate motivations.  Probably impossible, but that's some good Sally Sue fan fiction you got brewing, there.

Make sense? Obviously sexuality is a piece of the character, but if you can switch Morrigan to be bisexual, little of her romance would change. It would be just as interesting to a female as a male--perhaps more so, since it isn't exactly what you'd expect. There's no reason sexuality can't develop seperately from history--Morrigan may have been raised to use her body against men, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have enjoyed women as well, or used them the same way. And if you say Morrigan has no reason to romance a female Warden because she can't conceive a child, well, she had no reason to befriend her either. She also had reason to make Alistair love her, but she didn't do that either.

But, like Yuki said, asking Alistair to sleep with Morrigan as her female lover would be heartrending for a number of different reasons. Losing Alistair because he can't marry a man would be as well.

Both canonically bi characters certainly experience happier endings, but if they were straight, would anything change? No. It has to do with what plot they are involved in.

[mellifera]

Saibh wrote...

Coyote Hunter wrote...

yukidama wrote...

I think there was more of an emotional peak with Alistair and Morrigan because they were more intimately tied in with the main plot, not because of their sexual preference. I didn't romance Morrigan as a female but I'm very sure asking Alistair or Loghain to do the Dark Ritual with her (or sacrifice myself or Alistair because I couldn't bear to let them) would have been even more heartrending as her female lover if that were the case.

Now make a lesbian romance with Morrigan make sense and be interesting in the beginning and middle parts of the relationship, given your knowledge of the character's history and ultimate motivations.  Probably impossible, but that's some good Sally Sue fan fiction you got brewing, there.

Make sense? Obviously sexuality is a piece of the character, but if you can switch Morrigan to be bisexual, little of her romance would change. It would be just as interesting to a female as a male--perhaps more so, since it isn't exactly what you'd expect. There's no reason sexuality can't develop seperately from history--Morrigan may have been raised to use her body against men, but that doesn't mean she couldn't have enjoyed women as well, or used them the same way. And if you say Morrigan has no reason to romance a female Warden because she can't conceive a child, well, she had no reason to befriend her either. She also had reason to make Alistair love her, but she didn't do that either.

But, like Yuki said, asking Alistair to sleep with Morrigan as her female lover would be heartrending for a number of different reasons. Losing Alistair because he can't marry a man would be as well.

Both canonically bi characters certainly experience happier endings, but if they were straight, would anything change? No. It has to do with what plot they are involved in.

I was writing a response but it wasn't coming out right. Thank you <3

[trying_touch]

Saibh wrote...

Both canonically bi characters certainly experience happier endings, but if they were straight, would anything change? No. It has to do with what plot they are involved in.

 i was just saying that i was pretty happy with them... that contrary to what coyote hunter said, they were well-written...

i didn't mean to infer that they were happy endings only as same-sex romances... sorry...

Modifié par trying_touch, 26 août 2010 - 05:23 .

[mellifera]

trying_touch wrote...

Saibh wrote...

Both canonically bi characters certainly experience happier endings, but if they were straight, would anything change? No. It has to do with what plot they are involved in.

 i was just saying that i was pretty happy with them... that contrary to what coyote hunter said, they were well-written...

i didn't mean to infer that they were happy endings only as same-sex romances... sorry...

I don't think this directed at you but to those arguing that somehow sexuality would be the sole thing dictating the way the relationship ends up in the game (even though it was the same whether you romanced as a same sex or opposite sex character).

[burrito]

Dam I wish Morrigan was bi but when I asked if she wanted to join Lel and my warden she snapped. lol

[Arrtis]

You guys just like to argue about these things right?

DA:O had it.

DA2 will have it.

BIoware knows many people like the option.

It will not take that much away from the game by including it.