is there really that big a difference in playstyle between these two videos? (adept related)
Débuté par
sinosleep
, août 26 2010 04:47
#1
Posté 26 août 2010 - 04:47
sinosleep
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From a playstyle standpoint I just don't see it. Powers are still the key, it just goes faster and smoother when making use of guns.
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#2
Posté 26 août 2010 - 05:41
tommyt_1994
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Nope, there isn't. Besides the fact the no guns version was much slower and more boring. People who cry about the adept, aren't doing it right. When you can master it, the adept is one of the strongest classes in the game. Not to mention that warp explosions are really fun.
Modifié par tommyt_1994, 26 août 2010 - 05:50 .
#3
Posté 26 août 2010 - 07:35
Kronner
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but..Adepts are not supposed to shoot; devs lied to us, Adept is only a nerfed Soldier 
/sarcasm
haha nice vids sinosleep, hopefully this will help with all the Adept whiners.
/sarcasm
haha nice vids sinosleep, hopefully this will help with all the Adept whiners.
#4
Posté 26 août 2010 - 08:50
AntiChri5
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The difference is one is tedious and looks moronic, the other is more active, less lazy, doesnt waste time.
You've got to be doing something during those cooldowns.
Unless your waiting for barriers to pop back up.
You've got to be doing something during those cooldowns.
Unless your waiting for barriers to pop back up.
#5
Posté 26 août 2010 - 09:11
sinosleep
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Well basically the first was a challenge in which someone requested doing Tali's loyalty mission without firing a shot. After I made it I decided to make a comparison vid of normal adept gameplay to show that IMO the core gameplay remains the same. It's still a lot of singularity, pull, and warp, gunplay just speeds things up. I don't think it's an inordinate amount of shooting or that it suddenly plays like a soldier because guns are involved like so many others seem to feel. I was firing powers on every cool down. Isn't that what makes an adept an adept? Constantly throwing powers out there?
#6
Posté 26 août 2010 - 09:17
AntiChri5
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If you are on cooldown more often then not, then your playing an adept right.
#7
Posté 26 août 2010 - 09:26
Tlazolteotl
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Hmm. I still don't think you shoot enough ...
Multiple instances of singularity catching a foe whose defenses get stripped, and you duck into cover, wait, and hurl a warp.
Take advantage of the double damage and shoot them while ragdolled. It's a lot faster for finishing them off.
Then you get another singularity or pull instead of having to wait for the warp cooldown (which is long enough to frustrate me).
Of course, I'll throw a warp instead of shooting if there are multiple foes to hurt with the warp bomb, or if I'm hurt and intend to hide for abit.
Often, I'll still prefer to shoot and use the cooldown for medigel.
Multiple instances of singularity catching a foe whose defenses get stripped, and you duck into cover, wait, and hurl a warp.
Take advantage of the double damage and shoot them while ragdolled. It's a lot faster for finishing them off.
Then you get another singularity or pull instead of having to wait for the warp cooldown (which is long enough to frustrate me).
Of course, I'll throw a warp instead of shooting if there are multiple foes to hurt with the warp bomb, or if I'm hurt and intend to hide for abit.
Often, I'll still prefer to shoot and use the cooldown for medigel.
#8
Posté 26 août 2010 - 07:09
sinosleep
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That's a playstyle thing. For one people don't realize how long reloading takes. I didn't film but I've done some testing and when you have a weapon that goes through clips the way the locust does the reloading time adds up. Not to mention that should something silly happen while you're firing and you choose to use a power later you can forget to reload and then get stuck with half a clip when you actually need it (which actually happened once in that vid when I was shooting the shield off a hunter) which is really irritating. Knowing that I've always got pull on practically no CD I'd rather just wait for warp and keep my gun fully loaded for when I actually need it since I can always just re-pull the mob should singularity run out or anything like that.
I wasn't making a speed run so I wasn't all that concerned with time. Mostly what I set out to do was show that it's not as if adepts have to play like a gimped soldier on insanity in order to be effective which is what MANY people claim on these forums. I tried to use powers on every CD, which if you're doing you aren't a gimped soldier. And even on insanity using powers ever CD doesn't require you to shoot an inordinate amount of the time. It plays NOTHING like any of the other classes. And adept is an adept on insanity just as much as on normal.
I wasn't making a speed run so I wasn't all that concerned with time. Mostly what I set out to do was show that it's not as if adepts have to play like a gimped soldier on insanity in order to be effective which is what MANY people claim on these forums. I tried to use powers on every CD, which if you're doing you aren't a gimped soldier. And even on insanity using powers ever CD doesn't require you to shoot an inordinate amount of the time. It plays NOTHING like any of the other classes. And adept is an adept on insanity just as much as on normal.
#9
Posté 26 août 2010 - 07:44
Bozorgmehr
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You can use reload trick to speed up the reloading animation. Just use power when you hear the reload 'click'.
#10
Posté 26 août 2010 - 10:02
Tlazolteotl
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Well, all I gotta say is, those "MANY" people don't know what they're talking about.
Heck, I flatly refused to entertain a certain thread questioning the devs about biotics design 'cos (with the exception of shockwave) biotics are, simply, obscenely good.
Unless those people play like cruc1al (and I'm quite certain they don't), soldiers can't really control the battlefield.
So soldier usually ends up being a contest of who is able to shoot harder.
It's not a question of cooldowns, either.
An adept can make very little use of powers and still be highly efficient.
The trademark of an adept isn't in the casting, it's in the ridiculous amount of time your enemies spend not being able to shoot at you.
Totally better than a soldier.
Heck, I flatly refused to entertain a certain thread questioning the devs about biotics design 'cos (with the exception of shockwave) biotics are, simply, obscenely good.
Unless those people play like cruc1al (and I'm quite certain they don't), soldiers can't really control the battlefield.
So soldier usually ends up being a contest of who is able to shoot harder.
It's not a question of cooldowns, either.
An adept can make very little use of powers and still be highly efficient.
The trademark of an adept isn't in the casting, it's in the ridiculous amount of time your enemies spend not being able to shoot at you.
Totally better than a soldier.
#11
Posté 26 août 2010 - 11:50
numotsbane
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Biotics are awesome on any difficulty. A lot of the people seem to have the idea that what's wrong with them is that they arbitrarily don't work against enemies with defences. If I had a dollar for every time someone said 'why doesn't pull work when they're wearing armour?'... I would have six dollars.
this is a flawed argument - in ME1 armour upgrades clearly are designed to work against biotics. if its really an issue I'm sure you can make some rationalisations based on the established lore. it also is an argument which says 'all the things which make the game harder for the other classes shouldn't affect me'
...what?
in the end, you also need to take into account gameplay reasons as well. defences are added for the challenge. if the challenge makes you upset, don't play at that level.
this is a flawed argument - in ME1 armour upgrades clearly are designed to work against biotics. if its really an issue I'm sure you can make some rationalisations based on the established lore. it also is an argument which says 'all the things which make the game harder for the other classes shouldn't affect me'
...what?
in the end, you also need to take into account gameplay reasons as well. defences are added for the challenge. if the challenge makes you upset, don't play at that level.
#12
Posté 27 août 2010 - 07:20
khevan
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As I'm slowly working my way through Hardcore with my first real attempt at an Adept run, I'm realizing that the Adept is not gimped at higher difficulties. The problem seems to be that the Adept has a fairly steep learning curve, at least for me, and so instead of learning how to play the Adept properly, people QQ and complain that the "Adept sucks!"
It's a fairly complex class to play, yes, but when you get that down, it's a heluva lot of fun. Toss a Singularity, squadmate overload to strip shield, watch the dead-but-doesn't-know-it-yet mook fly for a second until he becomes a Warp bomb that strips the defenses of most of the rest of the enemy, and suddenly they're just snacks for biotics.
It's not a "hit a hotkey, aim and shoot 'til they're dead" class like the Soldier is (not knocking the Soldier, btw), but it's incredibly powerful and a fun way to play. I still think I prefer Infiltrator, but that's just me, and the Adept is definitely fun, and in no way gimped. It just takes time and skill to play it right.
It's a fairly complex class to play, yes, but when you get that down, it's a heluva lot of fun. Toss a Singularity, squadmate overload to strip shield, watch the dead-but-doesn't-know-it-yet mook fly for a second until he becomes a Warp bomb that strips the defenses of most of the rest of the enemy, and suddenly they're just snacks for biotics.
It's not a "hit a hotkey, aim and shoot 'til they're dead" class like the Soldier is (not knocking the Soldier, btw), but it's incredibly powerful and a fun way to play. I still think I prefer Infiltrator, but that's just me, and the Adept is definitely fun, and in no way gimped. It just takes time and skill to play it right.
#13
Posté 27 août 2010 - 09:51
sinosleep
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numotsbane wrote...
Biotics are awesome on any difficulty. A lot of the people seem to have the idea that what's wrong with them is that they arbitrarily don't work against enemies with defences. If I had a dollar for every time someone said 'why doesn't pull work when they're wearing armour?'... I would have six dollars.
this is a flawed argument - in ME1 armour upgrades clearly are designed to work against biotics. if its really an issue I'm sure you can make some rationalisations based on the established lore. it also is an argument which says 'all the things which make the game harder for the other classes shouldn't affect me'
...what?
in the end, you also need to take into account gameplay reasons as well. defences are added for the challenge. if the challenge makes you upset, don't play at that level.
Honestly the lore angle has always meant less than nothing to me. I am and always have been of the opinion that the lore needs to bend to the gameplay NEVER the other way around. I don't get made when I play a fantasy game in which the lore tells me wizard/mages/whatever annihilate entire armies on their lonesome by the mage in my party has a hard time taking down 5 guys. I don't get angry when the same fantasy games tells me I just picked up some epic sword of awesome that felled countless armies in the hands of some bad ass warrior at level 6 and it's useless by level 11. None of that junk bothers me. If the game requires that you upgrade your gear ever 4 levels and they don't want to call every sword you pick up until the end game broadsword #1/longsword #3/etc/etc well I'm not going to make an issue out of it.
Does it sound a bit hokey when you say outloud that armor and shields are going to stop biotic attacks? Sure. Do I care though? No. I think the rock/paper/scissors gameplay works well and if it doesn't march in lock stop with the lore oh well. Gameplay will always trump the lore IMO, and generally if you really look at the games we've been playing all these years it always has.
#14
Posté 27 août 2010 - 10:36
numotsbane
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Absolutely; It's a game first, interactive story (very) close second. I don't want to have to stop using biotics every five minutes to stave off aftersickness, because that would be the most boring game ever.
I was just about to say that if Sinosleep, Bozorgmehr, AntiChi5 and co all agree, then they must be right. but then I thought: we're all people who've played this game multiple times on insanity (well, I'm going to assume so, correct me if I'm wrong) - Have we forgotten how hard it used to be when we first played it?
I'm not sure if thats an argument with any weight though. if its hard you should persevere, not complain. or at least persevere whilst complaining. or do neither.
I was just about to say that if Sinosleep, Bozorgmehr, AntiChi5 and co all agree, then they must be right. but then I thought: we're all people who've played this game multiple times on insanity (well, I'm going to assume so, correct me if I'm wrong) - Have we forgotten how hard it used to be when we first played it?
I'm not sure if thats an argument with any weight though. if its hard you should persevere, not complain. or at least persevere whilst complaining. or do neither.
#15
Posté 27 août 2010 - 12:00
AntiChri5
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It is a bit hard to get into the mindset of a novice when you of played the game so many times on Insanity.
#16
Posté 27 août 2010 - 01:00
JaegerBane
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I think a lot of the 'biotics are crap/adepts are crap' arguments stem from the transition from ME1 to ME2. Biotics were presented as something akin to The Force, only more science and less mysticism, and hence it did come across as rather blunt that stuff like telekinesis can only work if you've shot someone enough times. It was the cinematic equivalent of Yoda having to smack Luke's X-Wing several times before he could raise it from the swamp.
Shockwave is the extreme example of certain people's dislike of how the defence system was enacted - a power that is ultimately useless on higher difficulties, as it's so dependant on it's physics effect to prove it's worth.
It is interesting to note that *all* of the classes are branded as 'combat classes' in ME2 - back in ME1 there was quite a difference between how combat and 'non-combat' classes played. I don't have a problem with that - I just think that if they are to be all treated as specialist 'Marine' style classes then the weapons option should really have been expanded from the get go.
But hey, that's what modding is for. Revenant/Widow/Locust/Claymore Adepts FTW!
Shockwave is the extreme example of certain people's dislike of how the defence system was enacted - a power that is ultimately useless on higher difficulties, as it's so dependant on it's physics effect to prove it's worth.
It is interesting to note that *all* of the classes are branded as 'combat classes' in ME2 - back in ME1 there was quite a difference between how combat and 'non-combat' classes played. I don't have a problem with that - I just think that if they are to be all treated as specialist 'Marine' style classes then the weapons option should really have been expanded from the get go.
But hey, that's what modding is for. Revenant/Widow/Locust/Claymore Adepts FTW!
#17
Posté 27 août 2010 - 02:01
Tlazolteotl
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AntiChri5 wrote...
It is a bit hard to get into the mindset of a novice when you of played the game so many times on Insanity.
Newbies are cool 'cos everyone's new sometime, but n00bs are those people who think like this:
On Dragon Age Origins:
I pick mage 'cos I like casting spells!
I pick lots of curses, oh yeah!
I try to play on nightmare, and OBVIOUSLY MAGES SUCK SWEATY BALLS ON NIGHTMARE.
The mindset of a n00b is to blame everything other than their own ineptitude first.
So, in relation to ME2, let's assume for a second, just one second, that biotics work regardless of defenses.
OMG, I'll just chain cast pull and everything is dead they just don't know it yet, anyone who even considers playing a soldier is totally dumb.
Don't those people realise that (and being invincible) is the sort of thing that made ME1 combat really bad?
You start with an auto-win, and it's just a matter of spending time grinding down their HP.
#18
Posté 27 août 2010 - 02:08
numotsbane
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what makes ME1 so frustrating is its either auto-win or auto-lose. you're invincible with immunity/ barrier, or a collosus one shots you...
#19
Posté 27 août 2010 - 03:23
sinosleep
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numotsbane wrote...
what makes ME1 so frustrating is its either auto-win or auto-lose. you're invincible with immunity/ barrier, or a collosus one shots you...
ME 1 snipers were ridiculous as well. You're just walking along mowing people down and next thing you know BOOM head shot! I used to HATE enemy snipers in ME 1.
Modifié par sinosleep, 27 août 2010 - 03:24 .
#20
Posté 27 août 2010 - 03:23
PsyrenY
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numotsbane wrote...
what makes ME1 so frustrating is its either auto-win or auto-lose. you're invincible with immunity/ barrier, or a collosus one shots you...
Or you Nemesis Lift that Colossus while he has full shields up. ME1 can get ridiculous sometimes.
#21
Posté 27 août 2010 - 04:26
AntiChri5
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sinosleep wrote...
numotsbane wrote...
what makes ME1 so frustrating is its either auto-win or auto-lose. you're invincible with immunity/ barrier, or a collosus one shots you...
ME 1 snipers were ridiculous as well. You're just walking along mowing people down and next thing you know BOOM head shot! I used to HATE enemy snipers in ME 1.
Nothing can touch you for so long that you stop being careful and just enjoy being the long lost son of god and then WHAM sniper.
After a while on ME 1, there were only one or two things that could hurt you, but those can fricken instakill you.
Yeah.......i dont miss that........
