198 réponses à ce sujet

[Burdokva]

Asheer_Khan wrote...

God... this slowly start to be ridiculous....

Tell me... WHAT ELSE you could learn from traumatized because of already damaged E-suit Quarian over what he registered from secuity cameras?
It's not like Veetor walked around colony during attack and have oportunity to closely observing how Collectors packed colonists to pods.

Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

Now, think this more seriously, and tell me how exactly would you know this if you were one of the Cerberus operatives there? In all honesty, if you just let him go (or provided medical care, asked a few honest questions and let him go, whatever) and it later turns out he knew classified information about the Collectors, was a Quarian agent and lied about his condition, what would you do? Shrug off any guilt, because hey, he might have been innocent?

There's a point in interrogations and that's not mindless violence, but making sure interrogated person says the truth. Do I need to make it even more clearer or do you fail to grasp the concept?

[Moiaussi]

Burdokva wrote...

Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

Now, think this more seriously, and tell me how exactly would you know this if you were one of the Cerberus operatives there? In all honesty, if you just let him go (or provided medical care, asked a few honest questions and let him go, whatever) and it later turns out he knew classified information about the Collectors, was a Quarian agent and lied about his condition, what would you do? Shrug off any guilt, because hey, he might have been innocent?

There's a point in interrogations and that's not mindless violence, but making sure interrogated person says the truth. Do I need to make it even more clearer or do you fail to grasp the concept?

Meta gaming or no, there is the question of whether Cerberus is trustworthy to debrief rather than interrogate (and there is a difference, namely in whether the other party is considered hostile).

The usefulness of such an interrogation is an independant question.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Burdokva wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

God... this slowly start to be ridiculous....

Tell me... WHAT ELSE you could learn from traumatized because of already damaged E-suit Quarian over what he registered from secuity cameras?
It's not like Veetor walked around colony during attack and have oportunity to closely observing how Collectors packed colonists to pods.

Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

Now, think this more seriously, and tell me how exactly would you know this if you were one of the Cerberus operatives there? In all honesty, if you just let him go (or provided medical care, asked a few honest questions and let him go, whatever) and it later turns out he knew classified information about the Collectors, was a Quarian agent and lied about his condition, what would you do? Shrug off any guilt, because hey, he might have been innocent?

There's a point in interrogations and that's not mindless violence, but making sure interrogated person says the truth. Do I need to make it even more clearer or do you fail to grasp the concept?

I'll take the tiny chance that I'm letting a Quarian secret agent slip through my fingers, in order to not risk a full-out interrogation of an obviously traumatized, ill, injured, and psychologically fragile individual. 

Never mind that Shep's old friend Tali is there to vouch for Veetor's condition, and pretty much says "go find him, Shepherd". 

[Asheer_Khan]

Burdokva wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

God... this slowly start to be ridiculous....

Tell me... WHAT ELSE you could learn from traumatized because of already damaged E-suit Quarian over what he registered from secuity cameras?
It's not like Veetor walked around colony during attack and have oportunity to closely observing how Collectors packed colonists to pods.

Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

Now, think this more seriously, and tell me how exactly would you know this if you were one of the Cerberus operatives there? In all honesty, if you just let him go (or provided medical care, asked a few honest questions and let him go, whatever) and it later turns out he knew classified information about the Collectors, was a Quarian agent and lied about his condition, what would you do? Shrug off any guilt, because hey, he might have been innocent?

There's a point in interrogations and that's not mindless violence, but making sure interrogated person says the truth. Do I need to make it even more clearer or do you fail to grasp the concept?

Speaking like true cerberus operative...<_<

Key is that from the very beginning i gave Jacob and Miranda pretty clear signal that my cooperation with them is ONLY temporal and since i was at friendly terms with Tali from ME 1 times i could expecting that when Quarians will help Veetor to get back to considerable normal status (like he was when i meet him later on during Tali's L-mission) she will let me known if he will remember something more from events in colony.

And with interogations in general is one problem... once you start, border between simple questioning and violent interrogation is very easy to cross... <_<

Modifié par Asheer_Khan, 30 août 2010 - 07:56 .

[didymos1120]

Burdokva wrote...
Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

No.  It's just obvious, period. 

[Sajuro]

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

[Dark Penitant]

^^

I agree, that is definately what the morally acceptable choice would be, however, in any war, there is always going to be an absolutely massive force protecting the home (insert captial/country/continent/world), and there is no way that any general would leave his/her home planet unguarded to help an ally, especially if there is already distrust between the nations. You think that the Alliance would sacrifice a colony to help batarians? or even turians? Forgive me if I have a more cynical worldview, but I really cannot see any race in ME sacrificing their home world to help another race

[Mr. niceguy15]

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

Booyah! Sajuro in da house!

My opinion is basically like Sajuro's, the Paragon approach. I know MY ethics, and as Shepard said:
" I won't let fear compromise who I am".

[Sajuro]

Dark Penitant wrote...

^^
I agree, that is definately what the morally acceptable choice would be, however, in any war, there is always going to be an absolutely massive force protecting the home (insert captial/country/continent/world), and there is no way that any general would leave his/her home planet unguarded to help an ally, especially if there is already distrust between the nations. You think that the Alliance would sacrifice a colony to help batarians? or even turians? Forgive me if I have a more cynical worldview, but I really cannot see any race in ME sacrificing their home world to help another race

There is nothing to forgive Dark, we each have our own viewpoints and that way Mass Effect doesn't make the choice for us. I don't think that the alliance would willingly do it, and you'd probably alienate a lot of your human crew (If you remember one of their families was picked up by Cerberus and moved to earth shortly before the collector's took the colony). I am really hoping for a hard choice at the end of Mass Effect 3, but I'm not going to save the galaxy just for it to fall into hundreds of years of human tyranny, that does Humanity as much injustice if not more than it does to the aliens.

[DPSSOC]

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...

[quote]DPSSOC wrote...

I disagree, I think, with the exception of the Rachni, all the experiments were remarkably well contained.[/quote]

I seem to recall thorian creepers on quite a few worlds, and we know that Cerberus were experimenting with them.[/quote]

So was Exogeni.  Unless you have proof (say from the books which I have not read or something I simply missed in game) that Cerberus is Exogeni then it's just as likely that Exogeni was screwing around with Thorians, Cerberus had an agent in Exogeni who saw the potential, Cerberus took steps to acquire some creepers, Cerberus took Creepers to Binthu.  I would further request that if possible you (or anyone) list these worlds as I only recall seeing Creepers on Feros (where they're from), Nodacrux (Exogeni research facility), and Binthu (Cerberus research facility).

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...


[quote]The spores are generated by the Thorian itself not the Creepers and none of the people we encounter on Nodacrux give any indication they're suffering from Thorian control.  Furthermore it's important to note that Nodacrux was an Exogeni project not Cerberus.  Cerberus may have gotten involved but that's different.  The only clear indication of Cerberus Thorian Creeper experiments is durring the assignment on Binthu where the Creepers are very clearly, and safely, contained until Shepard shows up and starts wrecking s***.[/quote]Actually there are creepers on quite a few worlds, and Shep didn't bring them there.[/quote]
 
Again Exogeni was experimenting with the Creepers as well, you can't jump (unless you have the above requested proof) to the conclusion that every Creeper not on Feros was planted there by Cerberus.  We don't have that kind of information (unless you do).

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...
Also we know from ME2 that the survivers are still suffering after effects. It is not a given that they are 'clean' no matter what sensors say. The Thorian we met had survived millenia. What is the gestation rate for such a creature? How does it procreate and over what time period would it grow and mature?

No immediate blatently obvious danger does not mean a lack of danger.[/quote]

True but again that's Exogeni's mess, not Cerberus.

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...


[quote]Not really the Rachni need a Queen to breed and we find no evidence on any of the planets, or the station, where Rachni got loose.[/quote]Yes, because we got there and intervened. The security guards were losing. They hadn't slept in days and the Rachni were attriting them down. Benezia was indoctrinated and not thinking straight.[/quote]

Noveria, Binary Helix, Saren - not Cerberus.

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...


[quote]Learning how to treat Thresher Maw burns, does the acid spread, what's the rate of spread, how long do you have to treat it before the only option is amputation, lethality once it enters the bloodstream, etc.  It's crude science, it may even be bad science, but when dealing with the completely unknown you can't always be clean about it.[/quote]And that is uber important information, why? Tests can't be done with human substitutes, like pig flesh or even cloned flesh?[/quote]
 
Yes and no.  You could but those won't give you truly accurate results.  There's only one way to truly see how Thresher Maw venom/acid affects a live human being, subject a live human being to Thresher venom/acid.  Anything else requires extrapolation and assumption which results in error.

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...
How often are thresher maws an issue anyway? Shep takes how many down?[/quote]

How many civillian personnel, hell how many military personnel have access to the firepower Shepard walks around with.  On top of that it's pointed out numerous times that Shepard is special, elite, unique; the exception rather than the rule.

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...
They are used routinely to test Krogans as a right of passage.... [/quote]

Yes and they haven't managed to kill one since Wrex's run at it (and he's how old).  Furthermore how many humans have the regenerative capabilities or redundant systems a Krogan does?

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...
What's next? Lets bombard Earth to see how a human capital can handle it, just in case aliens bombard Earth some day?[/quote]

Nah I'm pretty sure we've tested that out long before we even encountered alien life.  Heck self-anihilation seems to be our hobby.

[quote]Moiaussi wrote...


[quote]I don't deny that many of the Cerberus projects we encounter are complete disasters but as I said we're not privy to all that information.  We have no idea how many successful operations Cerberus has run.  Furthermore we have no idea what other benefits came from these projects.[/quote]That is like saying 'Stalin was probably a great guy because of all the nice things we didn't see him do.' It is nonsensical. Cerberus might be as you say, but simply assuming they are is nothing but blind faith.[/quote]

Except we have records of everything Stalin did, the good and the bad, so we can look at him objectively and make an assessment.  We have no such objectivity with Cerberus.  Unless ME3 decides to dump spreadsheets outlining all of Cerberus' operations the successes and the failures so we can measure them up we never will.  I'm not trying to defend what we know they've done I'm simply pointing out we don't know the whole story.

[Sajuro]

I must admit I was under the impression that you didn't need to do closed tests to know what happens when people get injected with acid.

[Lewie]

Burdokva wrote...

Asheer_Khan wrote...

God... this slowly start to be ridiculous....

Tell me... WHAT ELSE you could learn from traumatized because of already damaged E-suit Quarian over what he registered from secuity cameras?
It's not like Veetor walked around colony during attack and have oportunity to closely observing how Collectors packed colonists to pods.

Sure. From the meta-gamer perspective it's pretty obvious he's a traumatized poor Quarian who the player should defend for Paragon points/betray for Renegade.

Now, think this more seriously, and tell me how exactly would you know this if you were one of the Cerberus operatives there? In all honesty, if you just let him go (or provided medical care, asked a few honest questions and let him go, whatever) and it later turns out he knew classified information about the Collectors, was a Quarian agent and lied about his condition, what would you do? Shrug off any guilt, because hey, he might have been innocent?

There's a point in interrogations and that's not mindless violence, but making sure interrogated person says the truth. Do I need to make it even more clearer or do you fail to grasp the concept?

TIM's weapon is apparently information, if he is the big guy with all this info why doesn't he use it correctly? if he wants cerberus to be seen as helping humans and having no-bias towards aliens, then he should at least try not to send people back to their homeworld as a wreck. Its not about guilt its a -1 to TIM.

[mosor]

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate. I'd sooner burn the entire galaxy if the local cluster could be saved. Sorry but sentencing your own people to extinction so you can prevent some alien worlds from being devestated is pretty damn treasonous. If aliens want to prevent their worlds from being devestated, then they should step up and help defend against the threat. However, I'm not going to sacrifice billions of innocent humans just so alien civilizations can continue.

As for being the change you want to see. Only self hating humans would want their world destroyed so the turians, asari and salarians could live happy prosperous lives by not making any sacrifices themselves to stop the reapers.

[Giggles_Manically]

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate. I'd sooner burn the entire galaxy if the local cluster could be saved. Sorry but sentencing your own people to extinction so you can prevent some alien worlds from being devestated is pretty damn treasonous. If aliens want to prevent their worlds from being devestated, then they should step up and help defend against the threat. However, I'm not going to sacrifice billions of innocent humans just so alien civilizations can continue.

As for being the change you want to see. Only self hating humans would want their world destroyed so the turians, asari and salarians could live happy prosperous lives by not making any sacrifices themselves to stop the reapers.

So its better to kill more aliens than let a single human die?
Glad youre not deciding how things are run.

[Barquiel]

mosor wrote...

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate.

I think the same about some of the cerberus fans here....

[mosor]

Barquiel wrote...

mosor wrote...

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate.

I think the same about some of the cerberus fans here....

Yes but in my hands, you're more likely to be alive (unless you get in my Sheps way ) rather than be sacrificed on the alter of human loathing idealism.

[mosor]

Giggles_Manically wrote...


So its better to kill more aliens than let a single human die?
Glad youre not deciding how things are run.

It's as simple as if I had a choice of saving my brother or a few strangers, I'd save my brother every time (unless my brother wanted to sacrifice himelf). Some of you would rather save the strangers. That's fine, but I wouldn't want to be your brother.

Modifié par mosor, 30 août 2010 - 10:51 .

[Sajuro]

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate. I'd sooner burn the entire galaxy if the local cluster could be saved. Sorry but sentencing your own people to extinction so you can prevent some alien worlds from being devestated is pretty damn treasonous. If aliens want to prevent their worlds from being devestated, then they should step up and help defend against the threat. However, I'm not going to sacrifice billions of innocent humans just so alien civilizations can continue.

As for being the change you want to see. Only self hating humans would want their world destroyed so the turians, asari and salarians could live happy prosperous lives by not making any sacrifices themselves to stop the reapers.

I didn't say I wanted earth to be destroyed, I said it would sacrifice it for the good of the galaxy. I don't get the line of arguement that anyone who doesn't obey TIM must  be a traitor or hate humanity though.
Fun Fact: Letting the rest of the galaxy get destroyed rather than sacrificing Local Cluster would probably be more likely to result in the extinction of humanity along with every one else.

[mosor]

Sajuro wrote...

I didn't say I wanted earth to be destroyed, I said it would sacrifice it for the good of the galaxy. I don't get the line of arguement that anyone who doesn't obey TIM must  be a traitor or hate humanity though.
Fun Fact: Letting the rest of the galaxy get destroyed rather than sacrificing Local Cluster would probably be more likely to result in the extinction of humanity along with every one else.

What else does sacrifice mean? If you're sacrificing something, you're pretty much giving up on it. Besides, I never said you're trecherous for not supporting TIM. I said you're being techerous by sacrificing earth to save alien worlds. If sacrificing earth is a requirement to stop the reapers, then by all means, go down fighting. However if the reapers can be stopped without having to sacrifice earth, then that's the route I'm going to take. I'm not going to put coucil homeworlds ahead of earth.

[Sajuro]

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

I didn't say I wanted earth to be destroyed, I said it would sacrifice it for the good of the galaxy. I don't get the line of arguement that anyone who doesn't obey TIM must  be a traitor or hate humanity though.
Fun Fact: Letting the rest of the galaxy get destroyed rather than sacrificing Local Cluster would probably be more likely to result in the extinction of humanity along with every one else.

What else does sacrifice mean? If you're sacrificing something, you're pretty much giving up on it. Besides, I never said you're trecherous for not supporting TIM. I said you're being techerous by sacrificing earth to save alien worlds. If sacrificing earth is a requirement to stop the reapers, then by all means, go down fighting. However if the reapers can be stopped without having to sacrifice earth, then that's the route I'm going to take. I'm not going to put coucil homeworlds ahead of earth.

If the galaxy falls then we fall and earth can be repopulated after the Reapers are destroyed. There are plenty of humans scattered throughout the galaxy that would die under your plan to let the galaxy burn. Betraying someone implies you were loyal to them in the first place, my shepard swore an oath to protect the galaxy upon becoming a Spectre and that takes precedence... after all, what's six billion when compared to the lives of trillions.

[Dean_the_Young]

Actually, Shepard didn't swear anything to the Council: they just recite some things at you.

You do, however, have the prior oath of service to the Systems Alliance and humanity.

'Plenty'? Well, a breeding population, perhaps. But the off-world population is in the millions: not hundreds of millions, not tens of millions (or, maybe just passing ten million), but millions. Terminus is hundreds of thousands, but let's round that to a million. Eden Prime, the largest colony of all, isn't 4 million. Terra Nova, the next biggest, is the same. Most colonies are barely in the thousands. Altogether, the off-Earth population of Humanity might be over 10 million, but under 20 million.


But the population of Earth alone is [/i]11.5 billion[i]. Each billion of that is a thousand million. If you let the local cluster alone get wiped out, even assuming another 20 million out there safe you remove over 99.8% of humanity from the board.

By comparison, the Asari trade world of Illium alone has a population of millions (84, to be exact). Other species have similarly long established colony worlds. If humanity loses just Earth, it goes virtually extinct. If any other race loses their home system, they don't.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 30 août 2010 - 11:47 .

[didymos1120]

Dean_the_Young wrote...
If humanity loses just Earth, it goes virtually extinct.

Um, no.  A species doesn't need all that many members to be viable. It's dependent on a variety of factors, but it can go down to triple (and sometimes even double) digits and still be perfectly recoverable: northern elephant seals, for example.  Humanity would simply become a minority.  Still more numerous than the drell, however.

So, yeah, a  "mere" breeding population numbering in the millions is way more than enough for humanity to keep going.  So too would one in the hundreds of thousands be, or the tens of thousands, or....

[ExtremeOne]

Siansonea II wrote...

Yeah, for what they did to Jack, Admiral Kahoku, Corporal Toombs, and countless other humans and non-humans alike, Cerberus will always be an extremist group, literally a terrorist organization. Not really very sympathetic to their cause, but then I'm not terribly pro-humanity.

   



you are just like all the other ME 1 fans who can not deal with the story and issue at hand in ME 2.  in war there is horrible things. what Cerberus is pro human and will do what ever it takes to save humanity. 

[ExtremeOne]

Sajuro wrote...

mosor wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...


QFT.

I take the risk of a Cerberus dictatorship over the risk of galaxy-wide genocide every single time. Destroying the base is the single biggest mistake from any reasonable strategic viewpoint, and people only do it because they know Bioware won't put any kinks in their super-idealistic storyline.

One of my biggest wishes for ME3 is drastic consequences for both decisions, no "you can have the cake and eat it" as I'm sure we'll get. Keep the base, and there'll be Cerberus-like human domination for 200 years. Destroy it, and humanity gets the really short end of the stick: Earth and the biggest 20 colonies will be destroyed because a means against the Reaper attack can't be found until it's almost too late, leaving the pitiful rests as a Council protectorate for the foreseeable future. I wonder how many would stick to their "destroy the base" decision then.

I would still stick to my choice to destroy the base, because the moment we joined the citadel race our fates (like it or not) became intertwined with theirs and we are part of the same galaxy. The Reaper threat isn't just about preserving one race, it is about the galaxy coming together to end that damned cycle once and for all. The same goes for if I have to choose between sacrificing the local cluster (where earth is) or having multiple races absolutely devastated, I'll sacrafice the local cluster everytime. I know people are going to say "Gaw! That's not how the real world works, countries will cell eachother out :pinched:" But I know a wise man once said "Be the change you want to see in the world" and the change I want to see is where species are less centered on who is dominating and are banded together for the good of the galaxy.

Bah, glad you're not in charge of my fate. I'd sooner burn the entire galaxy if the local cluster could be saved. Sorry but sentencing your own people to extinction so you can prevent some alien worlds from being devestated is pretty damn treasonous. If aliens want to prevent their worlds from being devestated, then they should step up and help defend against the threat. However, I'm not going to sacrifice billions of innocent humans just so alien civilizations can continue.

As for being the change you want to see. Only self hating humans would want their world destroyed so the turians, asari and salarians could live happy prosperous lives by not making any sacrifices themselves to stop the reapers.

I didn't say I wanted earth to be destroyed, I said it would sacrifice it for the good of the galaxy. I don't get the line of arguement that anyone who doesn't obey TIM must  be a traitor or hate humanity though.
Fun Fact: Letting the rest of the galaxy get destroyed rather than sacrificing Local Cluster would probably be more likely to result in the extinction of humanity along with every one else.

   


I do not get you ME 1 fans you act as if the alliance is the only thing that matters. well the reality is they turned their back on Shepard and Anderson sent spies to spy on him or her. basically in so many words they don't give a dam about him or her. all the so called council cares about is you working with Cerberus and the hate that more then they do being 3 racist clowns . as far as My Shepards goes everyone in the alliance is a enemy of mine and will be destroyed if they get in My way. Cerberus brought Shepard back and gave him / her a new ship and said go and destroy the reapers and collectors . I'm pro human but  i have no problems with aliens . I like Garrus , Grunt , Legion , they are aliens 

[mosor]

didymos1120 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
If humanity loses just Earth, it goes virtually extinct.

Um, no.  A species doesn't need all that many members to be viable. It's dependent on a variety of factors, but it can go down to triple (and sometimes even double) digits and still be perfectly recoverable: northern elephant seals, for example.  Humanity would simply become a minority.  Still more numerous than the drell, however.

So, yeah, a  "mere" breeding population numbering in the millions is way more than enough for humanity to keep going.  So too would one in the hundreds of thousands be, or the tens of thousands, or....

Bah, the only future that appeals to are human haters and self loathing human xenophiles. Dean has a point, you swore an oath to the systems alliance to protect humanity. You didn't make any oath as a spectre. To decimate humanity so aliens can be spared  is treasonous if there are other avenues to gain victory.