132 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

Siansonea II wrote...

My favorite playthrough for this mission was actually my psychotic Renegade Ashley Shepard, who informed the Admiralty Board about Rael'Zorah's actions on the Alarei. That was a lot of fun.

I give them the evidence almost every playthrough. Just because Rael is Tali's father does not mean he is untouchable. He screwed it up so he should pay (and no death is not enough imho).

[SupidSeep]

IMO, Mark Meer's voicing of Shepard's Paragon arguement where he chews out the admirals for dragging Tali into their muck was one of the times where he really shines in ME2. Despite favouring Jennifer Hale, her voice work in this scene was a comparative letdown and I prefer [Rally The Crowd] when playing femShep in this scenerio.

[NuclearBuddha]

Kronner wrote...
I give them the evidence almost every playthrough. Just because Rael is Tali's father does not mean he is untouchable. He screwed it up so he should pay (and no death is not enough imho).

Except that the mission isn't "about" punishing someone.  The intent is to resolve issues for your crew so they're ready for the suicide mission.

[epoch_]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kronner wrote...
I give them the evidence almost every playthrough. Just because Rael is Tali's father does not mean he is untouchable. He screwed it up so he should pay (and no death is not enough imho).

Except that the mission isn't "about" punishing someone.  The intent is to resolve issues for your crew so they're ready for the suicide mission.

You ever show the admirals the evidence? She handles it like a child. Which leads me to believe she's just acting like a grown up for shepard, because she certainly can't handle her feelings.

Modifié par epoch_, 26 août 2010 - 07:07 .

[Kronner]

NuclearBuddha wrote...

Kronner wrote...
I give them the evidence almost every playthrough. Just because Rael is Tali's father does not mean he is untouchable. He screwed it up so he should pay (and no death is not enough imho).

Except that the mission isn't "about" punishing someone.  The intent is to resolve issues for your crew so they're ready for the suicide mission.

I did not say it was about punishing someone, it just happened along the way and you can use the evidence or not, I usually use it since I do not like Tali and it seems like right thing to do to me.

[Pacifien]

Tali's loyalty mission is one of the better done missions of the game. You get to learn more about this Mass Effect universe in seeing the quarians outside of just Tali's descriptions. There is political intrigue, morality intrigue, military intrigue. And Liz Sroka does sell you on the emotional turmoil going through Tali's mind.

I don't get the goosebumps that other people do in regards to the mission and there are a couple other missions that I prefer. But within the confines of this one mission, I believe Bioware developed a solid small story and planted the seeds of a much larger one for the future.

[Pacifien]

Kronner wrote...

NuclearBuddha wrote...
Except that the mission isn't "about" punishing someone.  The intent is to resolve issues for your crew so they're ready for the suicide mission.

I did not say it was about punishing someone, it just happened along the way and you can use the evidence or not, I usually use it since I do not like Tali and it seems like right thing to do to me.

In regards to the story they wanted to tell in ME2, they play it as if Shepard's main concern is making sure the crew is working in an optimum state for the final mission. Something he must do even if he doesn't like the person. Depending on how you roleplay it, Shepard's greatest concern might be whatever the Reapers choose to throw at him, which trumps whatever other sordid details he might discover.

Then again, you might roleplay Shepard as someone who thinks his squad should be professional enough to work in an optimum state regardless of what lingering issues they might have. I'm certainly not going to criticize someone for how they choose to roleplay the game, even if they're making choices that I think are royally stupid. Love to debate it with them, though.

Now, I could step away from the roleplay and think about what I'd do if this was an honest to god decision I had to make in real life. Don't make the decision on what will give me the best outcome, don't play a certain kind of Shepard, but play it as if this were me in the game. There was at least one playthrough I did in ME2 where I made decisions this way. So strongly do I believe in what I did in this situation, the most unwise thing I could do in this moment would be to tell you what I did. You can probably guess. And if someone out there wants to discuss war crimes in a real life situation, feel free to send me a PM.

[obiewamkenobi89]

One of my favorite scenes in the game, has to be in the end of Tali´s loyality mission when you face the Geth Prime in the last room. The music turns up a notch, Tali´s sends of her combat drone, while saying " Go get them Tika " and Legion makes that indescribable awesome sound. This melts my heart!

[PrinceLionheart]

Yeah, Tali had one of the best Loyalty Missions. Peronsally, I loved that their was different resolutions to the outcome, not just simple Paragon/Renegade or fail. This was probably the most "Roleplaying" of all the scenes in ME2 because literally a lot of your actions could make an impact on the trial. On my first playthough I did not know you could Rally the Crowd because I gave Veetor to Cerberus in the beginning.

[Giggles_Manically]

Using mob rule to win a trial is awsome.
Screw Judical precedings!
Vive le FLOTILLA!

Modifié par Giggles_Manically, 26 août 2010 - 10:02 .

[NICKjnp]

Siansonea II wrote...

I really really really don't get the Tali fixation.

That said, I thought her loyalty mission was very well done, one of the more well-thought-out ones. Obviously BioWare paid a LOT of attention to this character. But greatest moment in the SERIES? I have to disagree. But this is a purely subjective phenomenon, of course everyone will respond differently to the various characters and storylines.

My favorite playthrough for this mission was actually my psychotic Renegade Ashley Shepard, who informed the Admiralty Board about Rael'Zorah's actions on the Alarei. That was a lot of fun.

And then you sent Tali through the vents... right?

[OniGanon]

Tbh while I'd normally hand over evidence so that Rael could rightfully pay for his crimes even posthumously, the results end up too much a kitten-kicking moment that I can't do it.

[Lord Coake]

I generally go for the Renegade Speech, myself. If I have enough points to do it.

Though I disagree with Tali's being the best mission. Garrus' takes that spot for me. You can almost feel the raw fury radiating off him, can almost almost feel him white-knuckle his rifle's grip, and in the end, a mans life -guilty but penitent- hangs on Shep's actions.

If you stop him, he's furious, but calming down, he thanks you.  Justice may not be swift, but you save him from becoming something he'd hate.

Let him take the shot, and he gets to let it all go.  He goes on, aware that while he's got his vengeance, he's a lesser man for it, and that really, nothing got proven.

Modifié par Lord Coake, 27 août 2010 - 01:12 .

[xlavaina]

Its my favorite loyalty mission, as well as the deepest in my opinion. Garrus's takes a close second.



But. This thread can't end well... unfortunately. Beware of trolls.

[Shadow_broker]

Boring mission With an ending that makes no sense

Mordins and legions was far better at pushing morality

Thane and Miranda's both had far more emotionally believable endings

Grunt and legion had better insight to diffrent races



Was decent but nothing special and saying it's the best is just talimancing



Samara or legion's are undoubtly better depending on whether you want combat or dialagoue

[Thompson family]

Shepard's speech hits home because Tali's father never really loved his daughter the way a father should. Then he dies and never will.



It's clear throughout the speech that Shepard's saying the kinds of things Tali always wanted to hear from her father.



I'm a big Tali fan -- mainly because I have three daughters.

[Water Dumple]

Apparently those against Tali in general (to use a diplomatic term) think that liking the loyalty mission is just a generic response to liking the character. Ever get slightly creative and try to understand that we like the character because the loyalty mission is good? >_> It's certainly one of my reasons, among many others.

As for the mission itself, it's got most of the characteristics that really drive the best moments of the game. There is significant backstory about a race that was otherwise left in the dust in ME1. It also involves plenty of backstory on the character specifically, as there should be in any given loyalty mission, considering what you're there to do. There are multiple outcomes for Paragon, Renegade, and Neutral dialogue. Also plenty of optional dialogue, which even comes back to affect later dialogue. Some of the decisions made in the conversations may come back to have an effect in ME3, as well--Even if you complete the mission perfectly, you can still give different recommendations.

The mission's structure is well-designed, as well; it opens up with a fun conversation, then has you move on to a combat area for variety (but you still have the choice to stay and go into more dialogue for a while, if you want backstory and different speeches). Even during the combat area, there are some well-placed breaks for additional dialogue encounters. (This is something that makes Mordin's loyalty mission nearly as good.) Finally, you return for a climactic finish in the courtroom. Legion's influences here are enjoyable. And to top it off, the music is comparatively fitting and supportive, with some nice situational shifts.

Do whatever you want with your toy ships. But leave my crew out of your political bullsh*t.

[Sand King]

Q:  Tali loyalty mission = The GREATEST frakkin' moment in the series
A:  No

[Pacifien]

Water Dumple wrote...
Do whatever you want with your toy ships. But leave my crew out of your political bullsh*t.

Okay, team. Here's the battle plan. I'm gonna grab that quarian model for my quarters then we're gonna lay the smackdown on the geth prime. In that order.

[Pacifien]

Sand King wrote...
Q:  Tali loyalty mission = The GREATEST frakkin' moment in the series
A:  No

I'm still going with Sovereign's "You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it."

[Sand King]

Pacifien wrote...

Sand King wrote...
Q:  Tali loyalty mission = The GREATEST frakkin' moment in the series
A:  No

I'm still going with Sovereign's "You exist because we allow it. And you will end because we demand it."

Me > Tail

[Radahldo]

Praise Punk!

[kraidy1117]

This mission made me hate Tali even more in ME2. Sloppy writing galore, not really that sad, didn't play with my morals and was't even that fun.

[Siansonea]

NICKjnp wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

I really really really don't get the Tali fixation.

That said, I thought her loyalty mission was very well done, one of the more well-thought-out ones. Obviously BioWare paid a LOT of attention to this character. But greatest moment in the SERIES? I have to disagree. But this is a purely subjective phenomenon, of course everyone will respond differently to the various characters and storylines.

My favorite playthrough for this mission was actually my psychotic Renegade Ashley Shepard, who informed the Admiralty Board about Rael'Zorah's actions on the Alarei. That was a lot of fun.

And then you sent Tali through the vents... right?

Of course! You know me so well, Nick.