645 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

In Exile wrote...

Deviija wrote...
 Action-RPG is a buzzword that generates imagery for a certain type of game, especially to a certain type of demographic in this instant-gratification market, and that's all I think they are trying to capitalize on.

Instant gratification? How is DA:O not instant gratification?

It's not instant gratification because combat is slow and clunky, and the deep roads take too long, and I don't have the attention span needed to endure the Fade sequence. Haven't you been paying attention?

[Sarevok Anchev]

Lyssistr wrote...

In Exile wrote...

Morroian wrote...
The successor to Baldurs Gate was said only for DAO not the succeeding games.

Also, DA:O is nothing like BG. For one, BG was much more strategical (spell management, health managment) than tactical, entirely unlike DA:O. I could go on, but the whole "like BG" meme is silly, especially i) given how unlike BG DA actually is and ii) given how the BG crowd hated the direction of DA to begin with on the old forum.

DAO is still the closest thing to BG from non-indie games.

Nope! It's BG2, Planescape Torment and Icewind Dale 1+2 
jk...

[condiments1]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

The console wars can kindly go to Off Topic, please.  DAO was an action-oriented RPG, and we've clearly amped up the action element in DA2. That doesn't mean the story and characters are any less important to us-- these things don't exist in exclusion to each other, not on the game side and not on the platform side-- and while I don't doubt there's plenty of bad examples they exist on both sides of the fence. It's never just one or the other, except to those people who truly have an axe to grind.

Nice "damage control". It would seem you would rather stomp the term RPG in irrevalance than man up and say DA2 will be far more twitch/action oriented than its predesscor. I'm not going to jump to conclusions, but writing everyones fears as "delusional fantasy" is not a way to win people over.

Show us some footage.

[Sarevok Anchev]

AlanC9 wrote...

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

lol! A real pain in the a55 to play that, im certain ^^
I think i read, that it will be almost(!) the same as in DA:O.
Well, lets hope for the best

I hope the camera's different, actually. I just replayed the final battle and I was fighting the camera. A lot. Zooming out isn't very effective on a map with lots of height changes, and without a free camera I had to go to first-preson view a bunch just to maintain situational awareness.

A camera that works the way Laidlaw said the DA2 camera will work would have been much better.

Really? I found it very useful to zoom in and zoom out + change the angle of the camera.
In your example I zoomed completely out over my Archer/Mage and used an isometric angle.
By this i could very well overllok the frontline and the further away portion, where the Archdemon could possibly be.

But i would prefer an option, where you can toggle the "camera fix on character" on/off

[Reaverwind]

Aratham Darksight wrote...

This is a strange thread. I watched the clip from the original post and couldn't help but notice that it said nothing of gameplay specifics or elaborate at all on Ray Muzyka's "action RPG" comment.

I have an honest question for the people who are worried by this clip or feel that it validates their pre-existing concerns:

In what specific ways do you think DA2's gameplay mechanics have changed from Origins?

From what I've read, the ONE change that stands out is that Bioware seems to be dropping the repositioning nonsense that occurs at the start of battle in DA:O. I consider this to be a good thing, btw, as it drove me up the proverbial wall.

Other than that, Bioware seems to be making an improvement on tatics and character responsiveness, whatever that means. Until there's a gameplay demo, they're talking out of both sides of their mouths, as far as I'm concerned.

I do not consider DA2 to be an action-RPG, as I don't believe the engine capable of handling elements I expect those to have (yes, I'm in that group that does NOT consider Dungeon Siege to be an action-RPG).

Modifié par Reaverwind, 27 août 2010 - 06:58 .

[HTTP 404]

Well from what I played it definitely is more action oriented

[Vandrayke]

condiments1 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

The console wars can kindly go to Off Topic, please.  DAO was an action-oriented RPG, and we've clearly amped up the action element in DA2. That doesn't mean the story and characters are any less important to us-- these things don't exist in exclusion to each other, not on the game side and not on the platform side-- and while I don't doubt there's plenty of bad examples they exist on both sides of the fence. It's never just one or the other, except to those people who truly have an axe to grind.

Nice "damage control". It would seem you would rather stomp the term RPG in irrevalance than man up and say DA2 will be far more twitch/action oriented than its predesscor. I'm not going to jump to conclusions, but writing everyones fears as "delusional fantasy" is not a way to win people over.

Show us some footage.

The whole information release plan is about "damage control" (or more accurately expectation management). That's why you're getting small doses of stuff you don't like early on; if your expectations are lower for the game when it comes out, you'll like the game better.  That's why they never release gameplay footage at the beginning.  By the time they get to it, after months of assuming the worst, people will be like, "oh, it's not as bad as I thought.  Actually, it's kind of cool."  

Also, if there's enough backlash to something they reveal, they still have time to change it before it's released

[Vandrayke]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...

Really? I found it very useful to zoom in and zoom out + change the angle of the camera.
In your example I zoomed completely out over my Archer/Mage and used an isometric angle.
By this i could very well overllok the frontline and the further away portion, where the Archdemon could possibly be.

But i would prefer an option, where you can toggle the "camera fix on character" on/off

I agree.  Zooming out helped a lot.  If I can get the same information without having to zoom out, though, that would be fine.  

[JPR1964]

I'm actually in need to borrow some big rocks to throw at Bioware Staff...

Any offer accepted, if the rock is more than 100 lbs...

Thanks!



JPR

[KainrycKarr]

....I actually liked the kotor-style that DA:O was....

[AlanC9]

Sarevok Anchev wrote...


Really? I found it very useful to zoom in and zoom out + change the angle of the camera.
In your example I zoomed completely out over my Archer/Mage and used an isometric angle.
By this i could very well overllok the frontline and the further away portion, where the Archdemon could possibly be.

 I can't get a high zoom-out unless the character is already on the top level. And even then it's not all that useful if that character isn't very close to the action.

[AlanC9]

In Exile wrote...

For example, the MMO-like combat, the focus on tactics versus strategy, the inventory system, the lack of a personal plot - all of these things to me set DA apart from BG. I personally didn't like BG/BGII very much because of how dated the interface felt and how (personally) lacking the party was in character, but DA and BG are nothing alike.

Personally, to me it's like calling PST the spiritual succesor of IWD because both happen to be RPGs. Yes, there is a paucity of RPGs like the early 2000s, but that does not mean DA is anything like BG.

If anything, that was the unfair marketing Bioware pulled at first.

Well,  DAO's a lot closer to BG than, say, Oblivion, or even Mass Effect, unless you evaluate games very differently from the way I do.

[maxernst]

AlanC9 wrote...

In Exile wrote...

For example, the MMO-like combat, the focus on tactics versus strategy, the inventory system, the lack of a personal plot - all of these things to me set DA apart from BG. I personally didn't like BG/BGII very much because of how dated the interface felt and how (personally) lacking the party was in character, but DA and BG are nothing alike.

Personally, to me it's like calling PST the spiritual succesor of IWD because both happen to be RPGs. Yes, there is a paucity of RPGs like the early 2000s, but that does not mean DA is anything like BG.

If anything, that was the unfair marketing Bioware pulled at first.

Well,  DAO's a lot closer to BG than, say, Oblivion, or even Mass Effect, unless you evaluate games very differently from the way I do.

I suppose you could argue NWN2 is closer to BG than DA:O, especially if you're particularly stuck on D&D mechanics and the Forgotten Realms (I'm not).  But those aside, the major differences between BG and DA:O are the full voicing of conversations and the 3-D graphics which are a result of technological change.

[Lyssistr]

maxernst wrote...

I suppose you could argue NWN2 is closer to BG than DA:O, especially if you're particularly stuck on D&D mechanics and the Forgotten Realms (I'm not).  But those aside, the major differences between BG and DA:O are the full voicing of conversations and the 3-D graphics which are a result of technological change.

Yes, but NWN2 is a little older, I should have written *recent non-indie games*, I mean from recent releases.

[StingingVelvet]

David Gaider wrote...

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

I don't think console gamers are stupid at all, but I have to say it's sort of obvious that development priorities shifting to consoles rather than the PC in FPS and RPG games have had a huge impact on the depth, mechanics and strategic options present in those genres.  Morrowind to Oblivion, Deus Ex to Invisible War, Rainbow Six to Rainbow Six Vegas and the list goes on and on.

In Bioware terms, Baldur's Gate 2 and Neverwinter Nights to KotOR, Mass Effect and Jade Empire for instance.  Great games I am happy to own but more action-oriented and hybrids than strategic RPGs, not to mention the interface and such being designed around consoles.

With Dragon Age you guys finally made a PC game again, and even made a big deal of that to some extent, so forgive us for being upset about Dragon Age 2 seemingly going again to console-focused development and becoming more hybridized in genre, from the sound of things.  It's a legitimate concern and doesn't make us elitists, just dudes who love a certain kind of genre on a particular platform who have been ignored and dismissed more and more in recent years.

[slikster]

Ray Muzyka said...
...bringing the best and brightest features of DA:O, the stuff that fans love, the richness and depth of tactics and combat...

Honestly, if this holds true, I'll be happy. That this didn't come across in the Gamescom previews is troubling, but we're still 6 months away.
That being said, if the game can be beaten on nightmare without pausing and having to "think like a general," the goal of keeping depth in tactics and combat will not be met and I will not buy.

Edit: Just wanted to add that DA:O was still too easy on Nightmare. (PC version)

Modifié par slikster, 27 août 2010 - 07:03 .

[Monica83]

Its just funny to read how the people tend to call Doomsayers the people who dislikes something.. A nice suggestion: Grew up people anyone is free to share what think only kids tend to cryes if someone dont like their things.....



An Action Rpg? Why not? The problem was this:

Action Rpg dont have an immersive story they tend to be weak in that point.. (oblivion?)

If Bioware wants turn dragon age in a action rpg ill hope they dont made the story weak and with lack of informations about the world you are playng..

Bioware wants to make the game more action friendly? good..

I really hope they:

Don't make dialogues shorter

Don't make a weak storyline

Don't sacrifice deep immersive roleplay for it

[Vandrayke]

Also, doomsayers serve a purpose-- SOMEONE has to point out negative aspects of gameplay changes. If everyone was optimistic like me, we'd probably end up with a bunch of overambitious and underachieving games because nobody would want to put on the brakes and say WAIT A MINUTE during the whole developmental process.

Modifié par Vandrayke, 27 août 2010 - 06:21 .

[Bryy_Miller]

condiments1 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

The console wars can kindly go to Off Topic, please.  DAO was an action-oriented RPG, and we've clearly amped up the action element in DA2. That doesn't mean the story and characters are any less important to us-- these things don't exist in exclusion to each other, not on the game side and not on the platform side-- and while I don't doubt there's plenty of bad examples they exist on both sides of the fence. It's never just one or the other, except to those people who truly have an axe to grind.

 It would seem you would rather stomp the term RPG in irrevalance than man up and say DA2 will be far more twitch/action oriented than its predesscor.

So let me get this straight: you are angry because the devs are not telling you that they are destroying your vision of RPGs? 

[maxernst]

Monica83 wrote...

Its just funny to read how the people tend to call Doomsayers the people who dislikes something.. A nice suggestion: Grew up people anyone is free to share what think only kids tend to cryes if someone dont like their things.....

An Action Rpg? Why not? The problem was this:
Action Rpg dont have an immersive story they tend to be weak in that point.. (oblivion?)
If Bioware wants turn dragon age in a action rpg ill hope they dont made the story weak and with lack of informations about the world you are playng..
Bioware wants to make the game more action friendly? good..
I really hope they:
Don't make dialogues shorter
Don't make a weak storyline
Don't sacrifice deep immersive roleplay for it

I'm not going to get worked up about a buzzword in marketing--wait and see until the game actually comes out.  If they mean by Action-RPG, it's similar to Diablo, then sure, I don't want that.  There's no real correlation between where games lie on the strategic/tactical combat vs action and where they lie on the story-driven scale.  Wizardry and Might & Magic were plenty tactical, but far less story-driven than Mass Effect 2.

[Bryy_Miller]

Monica83 wrote...

Its just funny to read how the people tend to call Doomsayers the people who dislikes something.. A nice suggestion: Grew up people anyone is free to share what think only kids tend to cryes if someone dont like their things.....

An Action Rpg? Why not? The problem was this:
Action Rpg dont have an immersive story they tend to be weak in that point.. (oblivion?)
If Bioware wants turn dragon age in a action rpg ill hope they dont made the story weak and with lack of informations about the world you are playng..
Bioware wants to make the game more action friendly? good..
I really hope they:
Don't make dialogues shorter
Don't make a weak storyline
Don't sacrifice deep immersive roleplay for it

This is why people have been given the label 'doomsayer'. Because you hear a buzzword and proceed to go ape****. I am all for constructive criticism. But once you start in with the ridiculousness, that's when you loose credibility.

[Monica83]

Of course if Dragon age 2 becomes similiar to Diablo i dont' buy it.. I loved dragonage for the storyline for the world info.. For the deep dialogues and because its a long game... Sacrifice all those things only for "More action" im sorry but if that happen i don't buy dragon age 2 but somethingelse...If the devs can clarify this point this is much appreciated.. What i have read from those forum suggest me that dragon age will be more Console friendly.. Now i dont think bioware want to betray pc users or deep rpg lovers.. But if they do it in a favour of marketing... This is really bad..And if that happen i play somethingelse...

I just say that... think of EA..

Simicity was a good simulation game.. The new one become simple and stupid..

Spore annunced as a masterpiece becomes one of most disappointing game...

I really hope Bioware can work whitout EA pressure or this risk is valid for Dragon age series too.

[Faz432]

The fear of 'consolisation' is a fear of stripping down, taking away from a game we all enjoyed instead of what should be happening and that's to build upon that what went before.

Which ever way you look at it current consoles just are not technically capable of what even the basic current PCs are so a game developed for consoles can't ever reach the potential of ones developed for PCs.

That's just pure logic and not hard to see.

There's is also a justified fear of a trend we've seen from Bioware's recent releases which seems to be the bare minimum required will do, you can't achieve excellence or you're full potential by doing the bare minimum.

Modifié par Faz432, 27 août 2010 - 07:36 .

[Marionetten]

Rakia_Time wrote...

DAO was also a action rpg

And here I thought it was a party based CRPG relying on micromanagement.