645 réponses à ce sujet

[TheMadCat]

TMZuk wrote...


Look here!

THAT is medival combat. Blindingly fast and wickedly brutal. If they were wearing armour but still using longswords (yes, that -is- longswords they are using.) they would have one hand on the hilt, and the other halfway down the blade, to get the power to punch through the plate.

Now, with that out of the way, can we PLEASE forget all comparisons between FANTASY RPG combat, and medieval combat? The only thing they have in common is that they use swords. A good fantasy rpg combat systemis a system that is entertaining. Forget realism.

That's not medieval sword combat.

This is much closer to actual combat. Notice it's much slower with many pauses in between spars. Swinging a heavy sowrd in steel armor is an exhausting feat no matter what kind of shape you're in.

Modifié par TheMadCat, 30 août 2010 - 02:46 .

[Mister Mida]

TheMadCat wrote...

TMZuk wrote...


Look here!

THAT is medival combat. Blindingly fast and wickedly brutal. If they were wearing armour but still using longswords (yes, that -is- longswords they are using.) they would have one hand on the hilt, and the other halfway down the blade, to get the power to punch through the plate.

Now, with that out of the way, can we PLEASE forget all comparisons between FANTASY RPG combat, and medieval combat? The only thing they have in common is that they use swords. A good fantasy rpg combat systemis a system that is entertaining. Forget realism.

That's not medieval sword combat.

This is much closer to actual combat. Notice it's much slower with many pauses in between spars. Swinging a heavy sowrd in steel armor is an exhausting feat no matter what kind of shape you're in.

Cool

[Theagg]

TheMadCat wrote...

TMZuk wrote...


Look here!

THAT is medival combat. Blindingly fast and wickedly brutal. If they were wearing armour but still using longswords (yes, that -is- longswords they are using.) they would have one hand on the hilt, and the other halfway down the blade, to get the power to punch through the plate.

Now, with that out of the way, can we PLEASE forget all comparisons between FANTASY RPG combat, and medieval combat? The only thing they have in common is that they use swords. A good fantasy rpg combat systemis a system that is entertaining. Forget realism.

That's not medieval sword combat.

This is much closer to actual combat. Notice it's much slower with many pauses in between spars. Swinging a heavy sowrd in steel armor is an exhausting feat no matter what kind of shape you're in.

Go to Lancasters web site here, click on videos and enjoy much more full contact sword play of varying styles

Modifié par Theagg, 30 août 2010 - 03:35 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Theagg rasies a very interesting point, as well, that combt is going to be very different when both participants are legitimately afraid of death or injury. In these demonstrations, no one is going to get seriously hurt, so they fight far more recklessly.

Some might say that fantasy heroes should fight like that because it's more exciting, and fear of death and injury isn't heroic. But I think heroes who don't fear death or injury are stupid heroes, and as such I'd rather not play them.

[the_one_54321]

Because Thedas has a strong relation to a period of history that occurred in real life. /sarcasm

I'm completely in favor of making things appear as realistic as reasonably possible. Especially where they are based upon well grounded physical concepts that are fully included in the game world itself. But at the end of the day, when you make a strict assessment of what is or isn't real in the game, the whole thing is [cow patties] from start to finish. And there isn't anything wrong with that.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Any ways in which Thedas differs meaningfully from the real world need to be explained to us.

[the_one_54321]

It's called fantasy and fiction for a reason. I agree that there is a line of maintained suspended belief, but it exists just as much within our own heads as it does in the hands of the story writer. We should be careful not to project our personal limitations onto the developers as failures on their part. To do so would be inaccurate and unfair.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

It's called fantasy and fiction for a reason. I agree that there is a line of maintained suspended belief, but it exists just as much within our own heads as it does in the hands of the story writer. We should be careful not to project our personal limitations onto the developers as failures on their part. To do so would be inaccurate and unfair.

It's like any work of fiction.  If the game world differs from our world, the player won't understand it unless those differences are made clear.

Given that BioWare is explicitly stating that genre-labels are archaic, they cannot reasonably assume their players are genre-savvy.

[the_one_54321]

Fantasy and fiction are not "genres," as I used them.

[Sylvius the Mad]

simfamSP wrote...

I personally don't want the combat to be boring.

Nobody wants combat to be boring.  But we disagree about what types of combat are boring (or aren't fun).

[Kail Ashton]

Oh maker......i'm not even going to bother to skim read threw this, i can 95% accurately say you're all wrong, you're over reacting to band wagon doomsaying & hey! everyone likes zelda games and those are action rpgs!

[Sylvius the Mad]

Kail Ashton wrote...

everyone likes zelda games

I don't like Zelda, and even if I did I wouldn't necessarily want all games to be like Zelda.

[the_one_54321]

Kail Ashton wrote...
everyone likes zelda games and those are action rpgs!

Um, no they're not. Actually, whether someone thinks that The Legend of Zelda is an RPG series is a good way to guage just how much of an understanding they have of what they are talking about.

[Mehow_pwn]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...
everyone likes zelda games and those are action rpgs!

Um, no they're not. Actually, whether someone thinks that The Legend of Zelda is an RPG series is a good way to guage just how much of an understanding they have of what they are talking about.

They're not..indeed

Modifié par Mehow_pwn, 30 août 2010 - 06:07 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Mehow_pwn wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...
everyone likes zelda games and those are action rpgs!

Um, no they're not. Actually, whether someone thinks that The Legend of Zelda is an RPG series is a good way to guage just how much of an understanding they have of what they are talking about.

They're not..indeed

Yeah, they're not RPGs. They have a lot of qualities of an RPG, but once you really think about it, Zelda's RPG-like elements have more in common with Sam & Max than Fallout. 

[HarryThePlotter]

And hence forth those Games that the developers decide to call RPGs were RPGs. End of Story. Go to bed Children. (Yes, I am an elitist bigot. No I don't give autographs).

[Bryy_Miller]

I don't even think Zelda is classified as an RPG by it's devs.

[AlanC9]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

simfamSP wrote...

I personally don't want the combat to be boring.

Nobody wants combat to be boring.  But we disagree about what types of combat are boring (or aren't fun).

True, but OTOH I don't see any real conflict between your desires and sinfamSP's except at the zot level. Everything he asked for is cosmetics. Remember all the threads about NWN2 combat animations because they didn't do that stuff?

[Sylvius the Mad]

AlanC9 wrote...

True, but OTOH I don't see any real conflict between your desires and sinfamSP's except at the zot level. Everything he asked for is cosmetics. Remember all the threads about NWN2 combat animations because they didn't do that stuff?

That's fair.

I remember complaining about NWN2's combat animations, but only because they were so obviously worse than NWN's combat animations (I still like the dance of death).

[the_one_54321]

filaminstrel wrote...
Miyamoto considers Zelda an RPG himself...

I trust the guys in Japan to make games that I will absolutely love. I don't trust them for anything else, and deffinitions and explanation are on the top of that list.

[TMZuk]

TheMadCat wrote...

TMZuk wrote...


Look here!

THAT is medival combat. Blindingly fast and wickedly brutal. If they were wearing armour but still using longswords (yes, that -is- longswords they are using.) they would have one hand on the hilt, and the other halfway down the blade, to get the power to punch through the plate.

Now, with that out of the way, can we PLEASE forget all comparisons between FANTASY RPG combat, and medieval combat? The only thing they have in common is that they use swords. A good fantasy rpg combat systemis a system that is entertaining. Forget realism.

That's not medieval sword combat.

This is much closer to actual combat. Notice it's much slower with many pauses in between spars. Swinging a heavy sowrd in steel armor is an exhausting feat no matter what kind of shape you're in.

Very funny! I'll not derail the thread with this discussion. Suffice it to say, that if you are truly interested, I recommend the original manuals, written in the 13th, 14th and 15th century. I33, Talhoffer, Codex Wallenstein, Ringeness and Lichtenauer, who's the one they use in the video I linked.

Those two clowns you showed have no clue how to hold a sword, how to use it, and least of all, how you penetrate plate-armour. A swordfight that lasts more than thirty seconds is -extremely- rare. Usually, either the first attack get through, and the opponent is killed right out, or it is blocked, and the attacker is killed by the counter.

There's a video with armoured freeplay somewhere on Youtube. I will see if I can find it and pm it to you.

[the_one_54321]

TMZuk wrote...
I will see if I can find it and pm it to you.

Me too please!