645 réponses à ce sujet

[MerinTB]

the_one_54321 wrote...

He just put a number of the devs foots in their mouths. I'm sure they're all just pleased as punch with him.

No doubt.

[Litos456]

Ray you da man ;D

I hereby give you my sword and shield to face your incoming sh*tstorm. Best of luck, while I go down in my nuclear bunker. I'll be back in a few years.



Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

filaminstrel wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...

First of all, this isn't about my argument. The only times I've gotten really riled up was when a french article claimed there would be no tactical free camera and when some people who played demos said all movement was WASD only and all auto-attack features were gone. Missinformation and pointed out as such at the time.

This however, is a matter of, as you specifically pointed out, devs saying "your argument has no substance" and then their boss saying "I am givng that argument substance." That's practically the definition of the phrase "foot in mouth." 

I don't really see it that way, considering that "foot in mouth" implies that they said something that was obviously wrong, whereas in the statements you pointed out, they didn't specifically say it wasn't an action RPG, they were just commenting on people's quickness to jump to conclusions without any information. There's nothing to recant about that.

It's all about the tone. Those comments were made in a mocking fashion which is kinda something thats become expected from a couple of the Biowarians.

[Loc'n'lol]

"The main character is no longer player-created"



Hmmm... what ? Get your facts straight before you make a video preview ?

[Tsuga C]

Litos456 wrote...
Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Gee, I guess SoU and HotU were a complete waste of time and energy.  After making NWN1 they should've just gone on to cranking out actiony tripe for the Tardzilla crowd.  Very impressive reasoning, bud. 

[MerinTB]

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

Modifié par MerinTB, 26 août 2010 - 09:40 .

[Faust1979]

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 

[zahra]

Krytheos wrote...

To each their own. I thought Jade Empire was excellently well-done and one of their better games. Comes fairly close to KOTOR in that regard, but to each their own.

Am here just to say that I love Jade Empire. Apparently some sort of ****** is happening here regarding genres and such, so I didn't read the rest of the thread. Have fun guys!

To JE Haters: HDU and

[Solid N7]

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

Merin the only thing you do is whine, whine and whine.

[the_one_54321]

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."

EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

But from all appearances, BioWare is making a sequel. It's just that all apearances are becoming more and more like other games, instead of like DA:O. There isn't a whole lot that is really "brand new." Actual gameplay videos may or may not tell a different story.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Half-Life 2 was considerably different from Half-Life 1



Diablo 2 was a whole different game from Diablo 1

[MerinTB]

Faust1979 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 

Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

He just put a number of the devs foots in their mouths. I'm sure they're all just pleased as punch with him.

No, he didn't.  It's a buzzword - it tells us nothing of what's actually in the game.

"Action" is like "immersive" or "epic" - they're words that excite people but convey no information.

[Marionetten]

I really don't understand BioWare.

We have tons of developers in here denying it and yet the head honcho goes out and proudly declares Dragon Effect a fact?

Litos456 wrote...

Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Yes, of course.

The people who actually enjoyed Dragon Age: Origins should get no enjoyment from its sequel. Instead, the sequel should cater to the Mass Effect audience. Makes total sense.

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
He just put a number of the devs foots in their mouths. I'm sure they're all just pleased as punch with him.

No, he didn't.  It's a buzzword - it tells us nothing of what's actually in the game.

"Action" is like "immersive" or "epic" - they're words that excite people but convey no information.

Yeah, yeah. Did you read the abovre replies as well?

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Tsuga C wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Gee, I guess SoU and HotU were a complete waste of time and energy.  After making NWN1 they should've just gone on to cranking out actiony tripe for the Tardzilla crowd.  Very impressive reasoning, bud. 

Add Tales of the Sword Coast, BG2, and Throne of Bhall to that list as well. Aparently unless the game is all about MICHAEL BAY EXPLOSIONS! no matter how well it sold isn't important to the ADD crowd.

There's a market for traditional CPRG's. Bioware was at the forefront of said market. There's nothing wrong with them expanding and trying new things, but when you assure you core market you're making a game they're going to enjoy, its a tough line to straddle when you're also trying to please a portion of the console crowd that could care less about story and want to mash buttons.

[MerinTB]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Half-Life 2 was considerably different from Half-Life 1

Was it a FPS?  With a story?  And weapons?  Did you play Gordon Freeman?  Were there aliens?

Diablo 2 was a whole different game from Diablo 1

Was it a hack/slash game, with multiplayer, where you battled monsters as one of a few different classes, picked up loot, but the story was very light?

---

The graphics engines were upgraded.  The gameplay of those two games were very, very similar.  You had some different weapons and some different classes.  Half-Life 2's AI was smarter.  Otherwise, you played them the same ways, with the same POVs, and from original to sequel you didn't feel like you were suddenly playing a different genre of game.

[Solid N7]

MerinTB wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 

Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"

Merin if  don´t like the change in DA2 then don´t buy it period and stop your whine in the forums.

[Faust1979]

MerinTB wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 

Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"

Why are you comparing the types of games that I like to how I would treat my non existent kids? and trying to insult me? did you really take what I said personal? as much as I think sports suck the coaches try new strategies, sure they follow the same rules but not every game will play the same as the people playing them are unpredictable so really the analogy is a bad one. 

[-Semper-]

that's a bearded dwarfen lady! *probably without tmp's body fix*

Modifié par -Semper-, 26 août 2010 - 09:54 .

[Onyx Jaguar]

MerinTB wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
Half-Life 2 was considerably different from Half-Life 1

Was it a FPS?  With a story?  And weapons?  Did you play Gordon Freeman?  Were there aliens?

Diablo 2 was a whole different game from Diablo 1

Was it a hack/slash game, with multiplayer, where you battled monsters as one of a few different classes, picked up loot, but the story was very light?

---

The graphics engines were upgraded.  The gameplay of those two games were very, very similar.  You had some different weapons and some different classes.  Half-Life 2's AI was smarter.  Otherwise, you played them the same ways, with the same POVs, and from original to sequel you didn't feel like you were suddenly playing a different genre of game.

You are wrong for multiple reasons

Half-Life 1 and 2 were indeed FPS's with puzzle elements.  However Half-LIfe 1 had puzzle elements in big boss battles, these were removed for Half-Life 2 (as the puzzle elements were heavily favored in game).  Also Half-Life 2 had a heavy emphasis on vehicles.    The biggest difference is that Half-Life 2 relies on physics while Half-Life 1 did not.


Diablo 1 and 2 are completely different games.  Hack and slash?  I guess.

Diablo is in reality a 3D representation of a rogulike.  Three generic classes that can be molded in anyway.  Randomly generated dungeons.  Randomly generated quests in one linear dungeon hub.

Diablo 2 is a linear RPG focused on Hub worlds that takes out the randomly generated dungeons and forces strict classes upon you that force you to play them different rather Diablo 1 where you had 3 classes but you could level them up all the same way. 

Diablo 2 removes all of the roguelike aspects of the first game soley  for loot grinding.  This makes them play completely different.

They both had multiplayer aspects sure.  But to bring this back to DA 2, DA 2 still has a single player aspect so it must be the same.  But it isn't is it.  DA 2 from what we have seen looks far less different from DA 1 than the Diablo games were to each other.

[Tsuga C]

Solid N7 wrote...

Merin if  don´t like the change in DA2 then don´t buy it period and stop your whine in the forums.

Let's hope that MerinTB sticks to his guns and advocates that BioWare create the sort of games that he likes to play.

Way to go, MerinTB! 

Modifié par Tsuga C, 26 août 2010 - 10:00 .

[MerinTB]

[quote]Faust1979 wrote...
[quote]MerinTB wrote...
[quote]Faust1979 wrote...
Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."
[/quote]
It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 
[/quote]
Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"
[/quote]
Why are you comparing the types of games that I like to how I would treat my non existent kids? and trying to insult me? did you really take what I said personal? as much as I think sports suck the coaches try new strategies, sure they follow the same rules but not every game will play the same as the people playing them are unpredictable so really the analogy is a bad one. 
[/quote]
Sports are games, just use physical action instead of digital.  The analogy is that if playing the same game more than once bores you, then watching the same sport played more than once should probably bore you too.
Analogies are not bad because you can take certain aspects of what are being compared and show how different those two things are.  Analogies work by taking two situations or items that share a common thing as long as that thing is what you are making the comparision about.
Apples are fruit, a baseball is a piece of sporting equipment.  So many things different about them.  But if you say throwing an apple is kind of like throwing a baseball, you've made an analogy.

I was pointing out that your life will be quite erratic if your cannot experience the same game more than once.  It wasn't intended as an insult.  And it wasn't attacking the kind of games you like - it was questioning your "I can't imagine playing the same TYPE of game 12 times, bored just thinking about it."  Not exact game, type of game.  Like a sport.

Different strategies for sports?  You can employ different strategies playing BG1 over and over again, let alone across ToSC, BG2 and ToB.  "I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.
 It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all
play the same and have the same types of backgrounds?"  If your child was playing soccer at the same soccer field ever other game, it's the same type of game played the same way, the same backgrounds, over and over again.  It's the perfect analogy.

[Faust1979]

[quote]MerinTB wrote...

[quote]Faust1979 wrote...
[quote]MerinTB wrote...
[quote]Faust1979 wrote...
Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."
[/quote]
It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 
[/quote]
Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"
[/quote]
Why are you comparing the types of games that I like to how I would treat my non existent kids? and trying to insult me? did you really take what I said personal? as much as I think sports suck the coaches try new strategies, sure they follow the same rules but not every game will play the same as the people playing them are unpredictable so really the analogy is a bad one. 
[/quote]
Sports are games, just use physical action instead of digital.  The analogy is that if playing the same game more than once bores you, then watching the same sport played more than once should probably bore you too.
Analogies are not bad because you can take certain aspects of what are being compared and show how different those two things are.  Analogies work by taking two situations or items that share a common thing as long as that thing is what you are making the comparision about.
Apples are fruit, a baseball is a piece of sporting equipment.  So many things different about them.  But if you say throwing an apple is kind of like throwing a baseball, you've made an analogy.

I was pointing out that your life will be quite erratic if your cannot experience the same game more than once.  It wasn't intended as an insult.  And it wasn't attacking the kind of games you like - it was questioning your "I can't imagine playing the same TYPE of game 12 times, bored just thinking about it."  Not exact game, type of game.  Like a sport.

Different strategies for sports?  You can employ different strategies playing BG1 over and over again, let alone across ToSC, BG2 and ToB.  "I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.
 It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all
play the same and have the same types of backgrounds?"  If your child was playing soccer at the same soccer field ever other game, it's the same type of game played the same way, the same backgrounds, over and over again.  It's the perfect analogy.
[/quote]

But the fact that the soccer coach might use different strategies for different teams to guide they're players to victory is what would make each game different so thus each game would be different and have different outcomes each time. Plus they wouldn't be playing in the same spot they may travel to different towns so each game isn't really the same. when you think about it

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

Solid N7 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Faust1979 wrote...

MerinTB wrote...

Litos456 wrote...
Naw, in truth I'm really glad about the direction they're taking. If you don't want to play action, go play DAO Think about it, why would a company make the same game twice, whether the first was successful or not? There isn't really any point.

Did you see the Halo 2 and Halo 3 numbers?  The Half-Life 2 numbers?  Starcraft 2?  Diablo 2?  Gears of War 2?  Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2?

Why make the "same game twice"?  Because fans like to know what they are buying and like returning to familar ground.

There's a big difference between different creators all copying each other and doing "the same thing" and one creator sticking to what he's good at and giving his fans "more of what they want."


EDIT:  The Gold Box engine series of AD&D games - there were about a dozen of them.  Difference was mostly story.

It sounds to me that a lot of gamers fear any kind of change. I don't want to keep playing the same type of game over and over again.  It sounds boring can you imagine playing 12 Dragon Age games that all play the same and have the same types of backgrounds? I'm bored already just thinking about it. I'm glad they are shaking things up it keeps the franchise fresh and lets them tell the story a different way it sounds exciting. 

Different people like different things.  Some people are happy sticking with certain artists they like, and others have to keep trying new bands.  Is one right and one wrong?

I'm sorry you're bored thinking about playing a series of games with similar gameplay, and I'm even more sorry that even thinking about doing the same thing twice bores you.  I feel sorry for any kids you may have or will have - "Sorry, honey, I saw your soccer game last week.  If you maybe played baseball this week I'd go watch your game, or if the coaches changed the rules - but, dang, I'm bored already just thinking about you playing the same game with the same rules and the same team members.  You fear change, darling, that you can't play a different sport this week?"

Merin if  don´t like the change in DA2 then don´t buy it period and stop your whine in the forums.

Since when is this the "only praise Bioware" forum? 99.9% of devs welcome constructive criticism in hopes of making their titles better and keeping the fanbase content to ensure future sales. Merin has just as much right to state his displeasure on the direction the game is taking, as you do to defend it.

Modifié par CoS Sarah Jinstar, 26 août 2010 - 10:07 .