645 réponses à ce sujet

[Vulee94]

Litos456 wrote...

Ray you da man ;D
I hereby give you my sword and shield to face your incoming sh*tstorm.

AND MY AXE!

[MerinTB]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
You are wrong for multiple reasons

Again, you are purposefully going through and finding changes and calling the two "vastly different games."  They aren't.

From Pool of Radiance to Treasures of the Savage Frontier, there were many graphics changes, additions to game play mechanics, rules changes, and so on.  Looking at those two (the opposite ends of the spectrum for Gold Box Engine SSI AD&D games) you could quite easily say they are vastly different games.  But they aren't.

How different DA2 really is from DA:O?  Only the developers truly know at this point.  It may end up being only the kind of HL to HL2 / Diable to Diablo 2 kind of upgrades and changes.  Or it could be the Halo to Halo Wars kind of changes.  Most of us won't know until release.

That said - "Action RPG" is a particular kind of RPG.  As much as others want to pick apart words to say they have no meaning (sophists), we use words to communicate.  He picked those words to communicate an idea - the idea of a more action oriented, more "twitch" kind of combat to appease people who found DA:O style combat slow and boring.
You can like that, or you can not.  But that is what he conveyed.

[David Gaider]

You know, I would have considered DAO an Action RPG in many respects.

Clearly some people have this aversion built into how their precious RPG's are labeled, but DA2 wasn't struck by lightning the moment this phrase was mentioned-- it's still the same game it was yesterday. Just sayin'.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 août 2010 - 10:10 .

[Vulee94]

David Gaider wrote...

it's still the same game it was yesterday. Just sayin'.

But Ray is the boss. If he says action, then action it must be, doesn't matter when.

[the_one_54321]

David Gaider wrote...
 it's still the same game it was yesterday. Just sayin'.

Certainly. And this post has given me the impression that I should probably clarify my statements by saying that this hasn't really made me think higher or lower fo DA][. Not even very surprising, really. I just found the turn of events to be rather ironic.

[CoS Sarah Jinstar]

David Gaider wrote...

You know, I would have considered DAO an Action RPG in many respects.

Clearly some people have this aversion built into how their precious RPG's are labeled, but DA2 wasn't struck by lightning the moment the moment it was mentioned-- it's still the same game it was yesterday. Just sayin'.

I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

[DPB]

DAO was sometimes described as an action/rpg too.



"According to the BioWare guys showing me the game, Dragon Age can be played as a real-time twitch-based action-RPG a la Fable 2."



http://kotaku.com/53...ox-360-controls



"BioWare discusses the very deep combat system in the Action RPG game Dragon Age Origins."



http://www.1up.com/d...iew?cId=2019479

[MerinTB]

David Gaider wrote...
You know, I would have considered DAO an Action RPG in many respects.

And a third time, yes, if you pick apart words....



Sometimes I wonder why I bother, honestly.



*deep breath*

Honestly, Mr. Gaider.  So did I.  Those were aspects I, personally, didn't like.  But, then, I've personally not liked them since Baldur's Gate as my ideal gameplay is true turn-based.

Be that as it may...

I've spent enough time on this topic.  I'll bow out and let other people fight over things that are pretty much set in stone already.

[Onyx Jaguar]

MerinTB wrote...

Onyx Jaguar wrote...
You are wrong for multiple reasons

Again, you are purposefully going through and finding changes and calling the two "vastly different games."  They aren't.

Half-Life 2 isn't vastly different from Half-Life 1

Diablo 2 is completely different from Diablo 1

Even the interface doesn't work the same

The only thing it has is the loot aspect, the isometric view and the input

The classes are different, the leveling system is different
The art design is a little different.  The level design has nothing in common with the first game.

[Icinix]

..Aren't all of BioWares RPG's Action RPG's anyway?



In fact, aren't most RPG's Action RPG's? Otherwise you really wouldn't do anything except collect herbs for people or deliver letters for cheating husbands and wives.

[David Gaider]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

The console wars can kindly go to Off Topic, please.  DAO was an action-oriented RPG, and we've clearly amped up the action element in DA2. That doesn't mean the story and characters are any less important to us-- these things don't exist in exclusion to each other, not on the game side and not on the platform side-- and while I don't doubt there's plenty of bad examples they exist on both sides of the fence. It's never just one or the other, except to those people who truly have an axe to grind.

[addiction21]

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

You know, I would have considered DAO an Action RPG in many respects.

Clearly some people have this aversion built into how their precious RPG's are labeled, but DA2 wasn't struck by lightning the moment the moment it was mentioned-- it's still the same game it was yesterday. Just sayin'.

I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

Sure many people can understand an irrational assumption based fear. That does not make it valid...

Not sure why the same people that were saying these very same things about DAO and ME2 are still here.

Edit: I cannot even understand why I see some of the same posters that laud The Witcher as a great RPG then lose all faith because BW states Dragoage is an action RPG.

Modifié par addiction21, 26 août 2010 - 10:20 .

[Tsuga C]

MerinTB wrote...
That said - "Action RPG" is a particular kind of RPG.  As much as others want to pick apart words to say they have no meaning (sophists), we use words to communicate.  He picked those words to communicate an idea - the idea of a more action oriented, more "twitch" kind of combat to appease people who found DA:O style combat slow and boring.

You can like that, or you can not.  But that is what he conveyed.

Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  Ding!  Ding!

Give this man the kewpie doll as he just hit the bullseye. 

And, yes, many of us dread the potential consolization of DA2 for a myriad of reasons, lack of toolsets and the loss of potential custom content not least among them. 

Modifié par Tsuga C, 26 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[BattlerDunbine]

Icinix wrote...

..Aren't all of BioWares RPG's Action RPG's anyway?

In fact, aren't most RPG's Action RPG's? Otherwise you really wouldn't do anything except collect herbs for people or deliver letters for cheating husbands and wives.

Exactly.

Constant freakouts, the gnashing of teeth and the pulling of hair about wordsmithing and minutiae like this is why I have basically stopped checking this forum. 

[the_one_54321]

David Gaider wrote...
I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

Oh, hardly. While I won't deny that there are a lot of folks with exactly that mindset, that does not mean that you should readily dismiss those that see this very differently. We already have a list of great looking games that are out and upcoming that fit the "Action RPG" motif. We don't need another one, and especially not one labeled DA since DA mechanics were all about tactics.

That's what this is about for a lot of us. Being "Action RPG" is not a bad thing, but it does mean that DA will have one less reason for us to be very interested in it.

[Chaos-fusion]

David Gaider wrote...

CoS Sarah Jinstar wrote...
I would hope so David. I think you can understand where the fear of  consolization would come into play though.

I do understand where it comes from. It comes from a fear of consoles "tainting" PC games, and often a sense of elitism that console games (and gamers) are somehow less intelligent and discerning than their PC brethren. I don't consider it to be a good thing.

I would disagree in my case. I love my pc as much as I love my console. I love 'pure' RPGs as much as the action-RPGs. But I have alot more options for the action-oriented ones than I do otherwise. I personally dislike losing the variety in my options for games in favour of them all leaning towards the same thing, ie, RPG-lite; action with the RPG bits like a leveling system. Even shooters are doing that now!

And at no point would I have called DA:O an action RPG, just to clarify. This also doesn't really impact my view of DA2 either, it's not like I didn't see this coming from a mile off, I just wanted to throw my opinion out there I suppose.

Edit: Or, pretty much what the_one said.

Modifié par Chaos-fusion, 26 août 2010 - 10:25 .

[the_one_54321]

addiction21 wrote...
Edit: I cannot even understand why I see some of the same posters that laud The Witcher as a great RPG then lose all faith because BW states Dragoage is an action RPG.

I liked The Witcher for being The Witcher (I didn't like the combat too much, actually) and I liked DA:O for being DA:O. That's why. I won't like DA][ if it's going to be The Witcher, same as I would prefer that The Witcher2 not be like DA:O.

[David Gaider]

the_one_54321 wrote...
That's what this is about for a lot of us. Being "Action RPG" is not a bad thing, but it does mean that DA will have one less reason for us to be very interested in it.

As you wish. All I'm saying is that it's just a descriptor-- calling it an Action RPG or a hardcore RPG or what have you changes nothing about the game itself. If you weren't already interested in the game, this doesn't change anything about it.

As far as words go to describe a game, it really depends on who you're talking to. Some people considered Mass Effect an Action RPG. Some a shooter with a story. Yet much of the media-- those who aren't hardcore RPG gamers themselves-- referred to it as a hardcore RPG. The fact that people here have palpitations when a phrase is used that they don't like is pretty irrelevant.

But if you wish to get worked up about it, I'm not going to stop you.

Modifié par David Gaider, 26 août 2010 - 10:26 .

[the_one_54321]

David Gaider wrote...
As far as words go to describe a game, it really depends on who you're talking to. Some people considered Mass Effect an Action RPG. Some a shooter with a story. Yet much of the media-- those who aren't hardcore RPG gamers themselves-- referred to it as a hardcore RPG. The fact that people here have palpitations when a phrase is used that they don't like is pretty irrelevant.

But if you wish to get worked up about it, I'm not going to stop you.

Heh, as I mentioned a little earlier, the only couple times I've genuinely gotten worked up was regarding a couple of comments made in interviews/articles that were inaccurate and corrected shortly thereafter. This "revelation" wasn't entirely unexpected and it really didn't attach much else to this game except to say certain connotations associated with "Action RPG" are now fair game. Other devs have indeed still explicitly said Pause'n'play:Yes, Free Camera:Yes, Mouse Control:Yes, Abilities Levels and A Story:Yes. So while this phrasing irritates me, I'm not going to condemn it until I see gameplay. It could just as easily be a spin job with Ray trying to get some attention from the other side of the coin.

[Estel78]

the_one_54321 wrote...

We already have a list of great looking games that are out and upcoming that fit the "Action RPG" motif. We don't need another one, and especially not one labeled DA since DA mechanics were all about tactics.

That's what this is about for a lot of us. Being "Action RPG" is not a bad thing, but it does mean that DA will have one less reason for us to be very interested in it.

I don't see many action RPGs with such a strong focus on story and dialog.

[Lyssistr]

No news here, I can link many threads where Bioware staff has said that indirectly.



I'm buying at 10£, during a Steam holiday offer at 2012, to play a little before world's end.



Seriously? I'm skipping for Diablo III & Torchlight II

[Maverick827]

the_one_54321 wrote...

That's what this is about for a lot of us. Being "Action RPG" is not a bad thing, but it does mean that DA will have one less reason for us to be very interested in it.

When the lead writer of a game tells you that the story elements remain intact and there is nothing to worry about, it's probably safe to ignore him.  It's not like he has any greater of a stake in the existence of a story than a single, ungrateful consumer, right?

[pitchblaq]

The downside to reassuring that it's the same game as it was yesterday is that a vast majority of us have no idea what the game was like yesterday, and we rely on a slow trickle of information to form an opinion. It's no more right to be all for the game than it is to be completely against it when we know relatively nothing beyond the fact that there are changes to something most of us enjoyed.

That is, if you were to reveal that the game is 2 hours long and can be beaten entirely through autoplay with only one choice to be made throughout, that may be what the game was yesterday, but it wouldn't be until learning as much that someone may be put off by it.

An exaggeration, obviously, but people are afraid of the game being more twitch based than they're comfortable with, which they feel may have been indicated by Dr. Muzyka's description of its genre.

That said, I'm not bothered by it, and the notion of a Dragon Age with combat I'd likely find more enjoyable, if quite different, is appealing to me.

Modifié par pitchblaq, 26 août 2010 - 10:40 .

[the_one_54321]

Estel78 wrote...

the_one_54321 wrote...
We already have a list of great looking games that are out and upcoming that fit the "Action RPG" motif. We don't need another one, and especially not one labeled DA since DA mechanics were all about tactics.

That's what this is about for a lot of us. Being "Action RPG" is not a bad thing, but it does mean that DA will have one less reason for us to be very interested in it.

I don't see many action RPGs with such a strong focus on story and dialog.

Maverick827 wrote...
When the lead writer of a game tells you that the story elements remain intact and there is nothing to worry
about, it's probably safe to ignore him.  It's not like he has any greater of a stake in the existence of a story than a single, ungrateful consumer, right?

What does any of that have to do with the mechanics of the game? 

Modifié par the_one_54321, 26 août 2010 - 10:41 .

[gotthammer]

Isn't the more important thing here is the fact that "DA2 is an RPG"? Instead of whatever else it's labeled with, whether it's 'hardcore' or 'action' or 'fluffy' or whatever?(heck, when I say 'RPG' I still tend to mean pen-and-paper: CRPG - RPGs on computers/consoles, LARP - something I don't do ...and that's it as far as classifications for me go lol )


What exactly is a hardcore RPG? D&D isn't 'hardcore' for me...maybe WFRP is (or BasicRP, or whatever the name of that system that's used for Call of Cthulhu/Delta Green. And I guess Millenium's End . And HERO system...gah, I never could make my own character for that one  )


Them terms/labels tend to be subjective anyway.

Heck: RPG could mean any game where you play a role, right? Like, say, DOOM or HALO, Civilization, Master of Orion, etc. 

Modifié par gotthammer, 26 août 2010 - 10:40 .