58 réponses à ce sujet

[beancounter501]

I had a lot of fun doing my total Warrior party, now I am planning out the same thing - but this time with all Mages!  Between Wynne, Morrigan and Myself I want to take every spell in the game, plus max out every spec in the game.  Including the often dissed Shapeshifter.  Has anyone ever tried it?

So lets hear it - what do you think would be the most overpowered group of Mages Ferldin has ever seen?!  I am thinking:

Main: Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage
Morrigan: Shapeshifter/Blood Mage
Wynne: Spirit Healer/Arcane Warrior

Focusing on the big AOE spells like Inferno/Tempest/Blizzard/Death Cloud/Storm of the Century.  Fire, lightning, ice and death magic every where!

Remember Warriors and Rogues need not apply.

[Parrk]

Do mass rejuvs stack?

I would personally make them all SH. three group heals and 3 res would be pretty sweet nightmare setup. 3 rolling mass rejuvs would be insane.

[DWSmiley]

I recommend Shale as your fourth - not to fight but set to passive.  When she asks when you recruit her if you are just looking for a golem to carry stuff around, the answer can be, "Yes!". 


Shapeshifter is going to be pretty useless with mass destruction all around, I'm thinking.  I had a lot of fun with my primalist/shapeshifter from about levels 7-12 but after that there wasn't much call for it.  By the time I exhausted my mana and shifted, most everything was dead.  And that was with no other mage in the party.

Modifié par DWSmiley, 26 août 2010 - 09:34 .

[Random70]

Agree w/ DWS wrt Shapeshifter and you can probably add AW to that list as well. 3x pure casters will be able to demolish everything. I'd probably tell you to skip any healing spells as well. Three mages will be able to CC the entire battlefield 5x over and kill it 10x over. How would you ever take any damage?

And if you're looking to use that much AoE, be sure to pack lots of Glyphs.

[beancounter501]

@Parrk - I think Mass Rej stacks - I will find out!



@DW - That is funny about Shale! She would actually make the perfect party member to go around with 3 Mages. But no Tanks here.



@Random - I am planning on getting at least two of the mages to take the Glyph Line through Repulsion. Double Paralysis Explosion and Double Blood Wound. Yummy



However, I am actually thinking the majority of fights will be pretty easy. But some may actually be quite hard. Branka, the High Dragon, most Bosses and even the Reverants may be difficult. That is when we can go Arcane Warrior/Bear form and lay down some smack down!

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
However, I am actually thinking the majority of fights will be pretty easy. But some may actually be quite hard. Branka, the High Dragon, most Bosses and even the Reverants may be difficult. That is when we can go Arcane Warrior/Bear form and lay down some smack down!

Just drop a PE , a couple Hexes, and hit 'em with a triple Entropic Death. That should be enough to ruin anyone's day.

[Nooneyouknow13]

Shale basically is a mage in rock mastery mode as well.

[beancounter501]

Hmm, triple Entropic Death - sounds fun! Even though I have never landed a single Entropic Death against the High Dragon. She usually resists the Death Hex or Flys out of Death Cloud.

I think some combos will just be fun to use. Hitting three different mobs with Walking Bomb or Virulent Walking Bomb and watch blood and gore go everywhere. Or chaining Sleep + Horror against a couple of mobs. Any stationary monster like the Brood Mother is going to be toast. Love to see how effective an Affliction Hex + Inferno + Storm of the Century + Death Cloud will be in that fight! I think it will be a very fun playthrough

Modifié par beancounter501, 26 août 2010 - 11:23 .

[beancounter501]

@Nooneyouknow - Shale with Rock Mastery is indeed a very powerful addition. Hurl, Earthen Grasp and Rock Barrage would be even more artillery firepower! Now that you mention it is going to be hard to ignore Shale!



Well, if you know me I like to dig deep into the game mechanics. And I have been doing that on the Mage Staff. I am going to admit that the results are NOT what I expected. But it is what it is. Common Wisdom on the boards holds that the Staff Attack is slow and attacking with a Sword is faster. BUT, I timed it out and a mage will consistently attack with a Staff every 1.6 seconds. Like clockwork. That is much faster then a Sword, almost as fast as a Dagger + Shield. And it is easy to hit in the 100 point range with a Staff in the higher levels. That attack rate is the same speed as a Warrior or Rogue Archer with Repeater Gloves! Plus it Auto-Hits with Huge Armor Pentration values. Talk about making Archers a waste of time! I am almost embarssed for all the Archers out there. Not only can a mage out auto attack them - they can also unleash an Inferno.

[Pertan]

I was planning on such a party with a fourth member for my next playthrough, now i can't wait

[DWSmiley]

beancounter501 wrote...

@Nooneyouknow - Shale with Rock Mastery is indeed a very powerful addition. Hurl, Earthen Grasp and Rock Barrage would be even more artillery firepower! Now that you mention it is going to be hard to ignore Shale!

I am almost embarssed for all the Archers out there. Not only can a mage out auto attack them - they can also unleash an Inferno.

Interesting discovery about staff speed.  Morri/Wynne/Shale - make your pc mage female and you'll have the Delicate Damsels of Dire Destruction.

[termokanden]

Only thing bad about this combination is that Morrigan will complain if you help people and Wynne will complain if you don't. I find it incredibly annoying!

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
Common Wisdom on the boards...

:lol::lol::lol:

beancounter501 wrote...
a mage will consistently attack with a Staff every 1.6 seconds.

According to here, average attack times are:
1.5s w/ Rapid Aim
1.8s w/o

beancounter501 wrote...
And it is easy to hit in the 100 point range with a Staff in the higher levels.

Only with VH / AH stacking. Even Wynne, with 200+ SP, is only going to hit for ~85 w/o Hexes. And that's assuming she's using +30% damage gear that matches her staff attack type. She's only in the mid 60's w/o damage gear.
Your PC or Morrigan can only achieve ~150 spellpower at the very high end, which would put them in the low 70's w/o Hexes, again assuming the appropriate +% damage gear. Formula is here.

beancounter501 wrote...Plus it Auto-Hits with Huge Armor Pentration values.

W/o fully understanding the mechanic, I would guess that armor pen only comes into play if you're using a staff which deals physical damage...in which case you don't get any of the elemental bonuses.

Modifié par Random70, 27 août 2010 - 06:37 .

[beancounter501]

The time on the Staff attack was always a constant 1.6. I will have to test out using Haste and Repeater Gloves to see how much it improves it.

And yes, you should always be using an Elemental Staff with elemental dmg boosting gear. You should use the best staff available in whatever dmg line you are focusing in. The Physical Dmg staffs stink! And you should be casting Hexes, regardless if you are Staff Attacking or throwing Damage Spells. With a Spell Power of 100, 30% Dmg Gear and some Hexes you can start breaking that 100 point range. Even if you just rely on a single AOE Affliction Hex your staff should be hitting around 80. And it never misses. The best dmg I have ever seen was out of Wynne and that was in the 160-170 range.

On the subject of Armor Penetration, I pretty sure that Staffs completely bypass armor. I checked the script after you posted and the script calculates the staff damage and never actually checks for armor. The Armor Penetration is there more for the Shapeshifters.

Not saying Staves are uber, but they are pretty good.


@Smiley - I actually made by Warden a Female Elf! First time playing a girl in DA. I like your nickname, too bad you can not name your party in game.

Modifié par beancounter501, 27 août 2010 - 08:36 .

[beancounter501]

I tested out a few things with Staves. Tried using repeater gloves - it made the attack speed about 1.5. Maybe trimmed off a tenth of a second. NOT worth dropping any Elemental Boosting Gauntlets for! Haste had no impact at all.



There you go - don't believe everything you read in the Wiki!



Started up my Character - Took Glyph of Paralysis and Walking Bomb. A female Elf named Arial (Ten Points to anyone who can name the cartoon that character name is from!)



Hit someone with a WB then Paralyze them! Takes some micro but you can get a lot of mileage out of that combo. Key is to hold off the Paralyze until they are close enough to blow up there buddies - but not your party.

[Super ._. Shepard]

mages are the best

[Random70]

beancounter501 wrote...
I tested out a few things with Staves. Tried using repeater gloves - it made the attack speed about 1.5. Maybe trimmed off a tenth of a second. NOT worth dropping any Elemental Boosting Gauntlets for! Haste had no impact at all.

Are you getting these timings by hand or script / log file? I can say from personnal experience that Haste does indeed have an impact - negatively. Staves suffer the same +.8 penalty that bows do.

Way back I ran a Dual AW melee party. Had to leave Morri at home to kill Flemeth, so I brought Wynne. With 2x Haste running, her staff attacks were positively glacial. Actually, she only had 1x on her due to the way haste stacks, but still painfully slow.

[ussnorway]

beancounter501 wrote...

I had a lot of fun doing my total Warrior party, now I am planning out the same thing - but this time with all Mages!  Between Wynne, Morrigan and Myself I want to take every spell in the game, plus max out every spec in the game.  Including the often dissed Shapeshifter.  Has anyone ever tried it?

So lets hear it - what do you think would be the most overpowered group of Mages Ferldin has ever seen?!  I am thinking:

Main: Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage
Morrigan: Shapeshifter/Blood Mage
Wynne: Spirit Healer/Arcane Warrior

Focusing on the big AOE spells like Inferno/Tempest/Blizzard/Death Cloud/Storm of the Century.  Fire, lightning, ice and death magic every where!

Remember Warriors and Rogues need not apply.

IMO Wynne should go Blood and Morrigan take the Arcane warrior;
Spirit Healer/ Blood is never running with-out a heal whilst Morrigan can use the armour/ weapons to improve her spider/ swarm... that is assuming you want to use them.
Tip; have Morrigan take the Hex line as it will allow her to hold the threat much longer.
Edit; unless you are happy to die at the end of the game I think going male is better...

Modifié par ussnorway, 28 août 2010 - 06:48 .

[beancounter501]

^^ I was trying to give every character a melee option. Plus, I did not think AW and Shapeshifter played nice together. I don't know, I have never used Shape Shifting before.

@Random - You are correct about Haste. I was using the Repeater Gloves + Haste. The Repeater Gloves were offsetting the Haste Penality.  As soon as I took off the Repeater Gloves the attack rate dropped. Going from a 1.6 attack speed to a 2.4. Haste seems to be a big waste for any character that uses ranged or talents. Really only benefits Auto Attack melee toons. Like Dual Dagger Warrior or Rogues. But then they have Momentum which does not stack with Haste. All of the attack timings was based off a script log.

Modifié par beancounter501, 28 août 2010 - 01:44 .

[Elhanan]

I believe Rapid Aim stacks, so perhaps using a few such items may be advantagious.

[ussnorway]

AW and Shapeshifer = good swarm (high magic)... for bear you add more STR and so AW is wasted.
You have to ask yourself "are you a bear/ spider with the occasional spell (take Blood and STR) or a spell caster that can use swarm to AOE casters and archers (take AW and items that increase your mana pool/ MAGIC)"... they both work well.

Modifié par ussnorway, 29 août 2010 - 12:40 .

[beancounter501]

^^ I thought when you Shifted you lost all of your gear boosts?



What do people think about taking one level of Poison to throw bombs? The damage bonus from bombs gets increased from +elemental damage gear and Hexes. Over 200 points. Even just a simple Vulnerability Hex + Bomb can do 120 points of dmg. A Fireball + Fire Bomb would be a quick combo to deal a lot of damage fast.



So far my character has made it to Lothering. She has Fire through Fireball, Glyph through Replusion and Walking Bomb. I just love to open a door throw a fireball in, cast walking bomb and then cast Replusion Glyph on the doorway. Then stand inside the doorway and cast Flame Blast - until Fireball has reached the cooldown. Then it is another Fireball and then the Bomb is probably going off. Playing around with nothing but Warriors and Rogues has made me forget for powerful mages are.



Now I am just waiting to get Inferno....

[soteria]

@Random - You are correct about Haste. I was using the Repeater Gloves + Haste. The Repeater Gloves were offsetting the Haste Penality. As soon as I took off the Repeater Gloves the attack rate dropped. Going from a 1.6 attack speed to a 2.4. Haste seems to be a big waste for any character that uses ranged or talents. Really only benefits Auto Attack melee toons. Like Dual Dagger Warrior or Rogues. But then they have Momentum which does not stack with Haste. All of the attack timings was based off a script log.

A big reason I never consider haste as a factor in comparing builds. It's beneficial to very few builds, makes those boring, actively hurts other builds, and hampers the mage that casts it. In fact, the only thing I *really* like about haste is the increased run speed.

[DWSmiley]

I recommend TBastian's shapeshifter advice in this thread:

http://social.biowar...24503/1#4488938

[mousestalker]

soteria wrote...

@Random - You are correct about Haste. I was using the Repeater Gloves + Haste. The Repeater Gloves were offsetting the Haste Penality. As soon as I took off the Repeater Gloves the attack rate dropped. Going from a 1.6 attack speed to a 2.4. Haste seems to be a big waste for any character that uses ranged or talents. Really only benefits Auto Attack melee toons. Like Dual Dagger Warrior or Rogues. But then they have Momentum which does not stack with Haste. All of the attack timings was based off a script log.

A big reason I never consider haste as a factor in comparing builds. It's beneficial to very few builds, makes those boring, actively hurts other builds, and hampers the mage that casts it. In fact, the only thing I *really* like about haste is the increased run speed.

That's why I like Swift Salve so much. I tend to do a lot of running around late in the game tying up loose ends. SS is 'haste on demand' so you can use it when you just want to run through the Denerim Market for the umpteenth time and not use it when you don't need it. Also, Wynne is the only logical mage to get Haste and she's not my favourite mage. I'd rather her not finish that line of spells and get something a bit more useful.