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[numotsbane]

Definitive Editions: Limited Resources
 
Yes, another one – though this one’s for builds. I’ve again noticed that when people talk about builds they always start off with level 30, which gives you the most amount of points to play with, and also generates the most consistent results. But level 30 is only relevant late game or if you’re doing NG+
 
So Limited Resources is going to look at builds for people starting at level one to aim for.
 
So what should each class build look like if we take away the options? What builds should we aim for by level 15? Yes, I just arbitrarily chose that number. Moving on.
 
These are the builds I’ve quickly made up to get started. But where would you want your characters to be at level 15, [or just above or below?]
 

SOLDIER

1. Gunplay
Adrenaline Rush: [][][][]
Concussive: []
Passive: [][][][]
AP Ammo: [][][][]
(31 points)
 
2. Slam
Adrenaline Rush: [][][]
Concussive:
Disrupter:[][]
Incendiary:[][][][]
Cryo Ammo:[]
Passive: [][][][]
Slam:[]
(31 points)
 
3. Squad Cryo
Adrenaline Rush: [][][]
Concussive:
Disrupter:[][]
Incendiary:[][]
Cryo Ammo:[][][][]
Passive: [][][][]
Bonus: [][]
(31 points)
 
I don’t really advocate keeping AP once you have enough points to unlock inferno or squad cryo, but it’s an option. Build 2 is probably your ‘standard’ soldier look.
 

ADEPT

1. Barrier
Warp: [][][] (?)
Throw: []
Singularity: [][][] (?)
Pull: []
Shockwave:
Passive: [][][][]
Barrier: [][]
(27 points) – Max Singularity or Warp.
 
2. Warp Ammo
Warp: [][][]
Throw: []
Singularity: [][][][]
Pull: []
Shockwave:
Passive: [][][][]
Warp Ammo: [][]
(31 points)
 
I’d probably go with the first build to be honest, I can’t see much benefit of warp ammo over the survivability of barrier. This is something I’ve actually tested too. My word is good.
 

VANGUARD

 
Incendiary: [][][][]
Cryo:
Charge: [][][][]
Shockwave:
Pull:
Passive: [][][][]
Slam/ Reave: []
 
Everyone seems to advocate reave, but I’m not so sure. Personally, I like Slam for the small cooldown.
 

INFILTRATOR

 
1. Cryo
Disrupter Ammo: [][]
Cryo Ammo: [][][][]
Cloak:[][]
Incinerate: [][][]
AI hacking:
Passive: [][][]
Flash/ Bonus of choice: [][] – or get Cloak level 3
(31 points)
 
2. Sniper
Disrupter Ammo:[]
Cryo Ammo:
Cloak: [][][][]
Incinerate:[][]
AI hacking:
Passive: [][][][]
Warp/ AP Ammo: [][][]
(31 points)
 
I like the Idea of making every shot count with the infiltrator, and incinerate makes a nice finisher. Personally I don’t play sniper infiltrators anymore, so I’m more inclined to look at using active powers more. I think you start with one point in disrupter?
 

ENGINEER

 
1. Standard
Overload:[][][]
Incinerate: [][][]
Drone: [][][]
Cryo:
AI Hacking:
Passive: [][][][]
Bonus:[][]
(31 points)
 
2. Dominate
Overload:[]
Incinerate: []
Drone: [][][][]
Cryo: [][]
AI Hacking: [][]
Passive: [][][][]
Dominate: [][]
(31 Points)
 
Loving the Dominate Engineer.
 

SENTINEL

 
1. ED Sentinel
Throw: [][]
Warp: [][][]
Tech Armour: [][][]
Overload:
Cryo:
Passive: [][][][]
Energy Drain: [][][]
(31 Points)
 
2. Numot’s Flash Sentinel
Throw:[][]
Warp:[]
Tech Armour: [][][][]
Overload:[]
Cryo:
Passive: [][][][]
Flash Grenade: [][][]
(31 points)
 
The Energy Drain sentinel seems to have undergone somewhat of a renaissance in these forums at the moment but I’m still not sure whether this is the most effective option at this stage. I’d certainly want to look at dropping warp and 2 from throw for either reave or warp ammo to maximize anti-shield as well as anti-armour/ barrier options.
 
So I’m still undecided on these. Thoughts, my good people? What would you build with limited resources?
 
Numot 

Modifié par numotsbane, 02 septembre 2010 - 11:04 .

[OniGanon]

For Infiltrator early game, I go:



Disruptor 3

Cryo 1

Cloak 10

Incinerate 1

Hack 0

Passive 10

Neural Shock 1



It's important to have 1 Cryo before hitting Horizon. Makes fighting Husks much easier. Neural Shock helps there also.



From there, get Incinerate 3, Hack 1, Squad Cryo 10, Disruptor 6, Incinerate 10, Shock 3. In that order.

[Kacynski]

For the Vanguard I do not think Reave is that important early on, I allways leave it at 1 point until the very end.

I would recommend to go:

1 Incendiary Ammo

10 Heavy Charge

as soon as possible, then

10 Champion

then

10 Inferno Ammo

then

10 Squad Cryo

then

whatever you like ...

[Tlazolteotl]

I happen to think my infiltrator build is the best, but then I'm in the business of throwing fireballs at everything.

Pretty much, my build can be summed up with incineration blast, then get squad cryo.

The basic plan is to overpower everything with stacked AoE powers, and let cryo ammo do its thing. Then I threw in a lot of combos and stuff into the mix.

[Pacifien]

What level (and skill points) are people usually at by Horizon? I tend to focus my build early on with the Horizon mission in mind, as I think that's the first real challenge anyone is likely to face. But I never bother to actually check what level I'm on by Horizon, so I can't suggest a build to someone knowing they'd be able to actually match it.

Most of my games start with an import to level 3 and I know my Infiltrator can get squad cryo ammo before Horizon somewhat easily. I'll do the same for a Vanguard. An Adept, it's all about maxing Singularity and the class Passive for me.

[Simbacca]

Pacifien wrote...

What level (and skill points) are people usually at by Horizon?...

The highest I can usually get by Horizon is 13, starting from a lvl 3 import (i only didn't do Overlord, saved that for after).

I just did this with my Soldier on insanity.  My build at the time was:

Mantis/Mattock/GPS/Phalanx
4 Heightened AR
0 Concussive Shot
2 Disruptor Ammo
4 Inferno Ammo
0 Cryo Ammo
2 passive
1 Neural Shock

That was very strong on Horizon, I mowed through everything no problem. 

Of course my team were a couple of powerhouses too, with my unusal builds for Grunt and Jacob; they both had their own Inferno Ammo as well!  I could of made the build with Squad Cryo Ammo and brought Miranda and Kasumi if I went down to rank 3 AR, but why bother when my triple threat of Inferno powered GPS wielding Soldiers tore through all the Collectors on Horizon with bare minimal power wheel pausing (360 player here). 

Neural Shock owns Husks and it cools down very fast by Horizon with the tech cooldown upgrade.

Also, Heightened AR + Inferno Phalanx headshot owns Harbinger's armor.  Heightened AR + Inferno GPS fully powered shot removes half of the Praetorian's Barrier at lvl 13.

Btw, before Horizon I did Advanced Training in rank 1 Energy Drain for Jack's recruitment and it was awesome.  Advanced Training'd Neural Shock back in just before Horizon.

Modifié par Simbacca, 27 août 2010 - 03:32 .

[Tlazolteotl]

Depends on how much DLC you have ...

Starting with a level 5, I used to get level 16 by horizon ... that's before the overlord DLC.

Of course, this is also with the XP bonus from having finished the game.

[numotsbane]

Yeah how important is the soldier's passive skill? does the extra weapon damage and health really add that much that its worth it...

Also, the infiltrator is definitely the most flexible class early game. I really love incinerate and feel 1pt AP gives you the most extra damage against non-shield defences and health than the other ammo options. bringing grunt or jacob provides more flexibility. what would you be prepared to give up to get squad cryo? hmm.



Personally, My vanguard builds are either:

Inferno- 10

Cryo- 3

Charge- 10

passive- 6

Slam- 1

<30 total>

--or--

Charge- 10

Shockwave- 3

pull- 1

passive- 10

warp ammo- 6

<30 total>

however everyone here seems to prefer reave, so i thought I'd put that up.

[Tlazolteotl]

Hmm. I think of all the soldier's passive's traits, the storm speed is the most important.

At first I didn't think it mattered, but after playing a soldier, I got every other shepard to wear stimulator conduits.

Edit:
On the subject of infiltrator, my build with videos, mission by mission is in my sig.
Horizon at 16th: Incineration blast, squad cryo, disruptor 2, passive 3, GSB 1, cloak 2.

It depends a lot on your intentions ... I run with a lot of cc and use the shuriken as my main weapon, so area effect lockdown is more effective than shooting harder with the sniper rifle.
Note my fights vs scions and the praetorian, almost the only times when I cloaked, and damage output of the mantis is plenty high without an ammo power (that contributes), or assassination cloak.

Modifié par Tlazolteotl, 27 août 2010 - 04:06 .

[numotsbane]

That build does look pretty solid, but I don't really like using GSB as the cooldown sucks. its a nice panic button, but for 1pt I'd maybe go slam or Neural shock. great cc, small cooldo- wait this isn't my bonus power thread, I'll stop now. anyway, that gives:



Disrupter: [][]

Squad Cryo: [][][][]

Cloak: [][]

Incinerate: [][][][]

Passive: [][]

Slam: []



You can also get Squad Cryo on a soldier at level 15, with 1pt to spare:

Adrenaline Rush:[][][]

Disrupter Ammo:[][]

Incendiary Ammo:[][]

Squad Cryo Ammo:[][][][]

Passive: [][][]

Slam/ NS:[] (or concussive shot, if you feel like a less effective version of cc with a longer cooldown)

[Simbacca]

For Vanguards at lvl 13, I'd run:

2 Incendiary Ammo
4 Squad Cryo Ammo
4 Heavy Charge
0 Shockwave
0 Pull
2 passive
1 bonus (probably Neural Shock for now since you can get the tech cooldown upgrade pre-horizon)

The Evi will one-shot freeze post Charge.  Elbow will shatter.

Modifié par Simbacca, 27 août 2010 - 04:13 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Level 12 Adept:



3 Warp

1 Throw

3 Singularity

1 Pull

0 Shockwave

4 Bastion

1 Barrier

[mcsupersport]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Level 12 Adept:

3 Warp
1 Throw
3 Singularity
1 Pull
0 Shockwave
4 Bastion
1 Barrier

I am assuming this is about building for Insanity plays.  Because Adepts can have 2 radically different approaches, depending on difficulty.

On lower levels Shockwave becomes a good thing to have at least one pt in.  Also Singularity becomes less important to max because the other skills grow in effectiveness. 

Also Energy Drain(not for collector missions) also is a very nice skill to have on adepts at higher levels, but you wouldn't get as much bang for the skill on lower difficulty.


This is a good build for insanity Bozorgmehr, very similar to what I run, with the only real option change is warp ammo for an alternative to Barrier, but both are very good, depending on your playstyle. 

[Bozorgmehr]

mcsupersport wrote...

I am assuming this is about building for Insanity plays.  Because Adepts can have 2 radically different approaches, depending on difficulty.

Yes, I've only played Insanity (except first playthrough - imp lvl 60 ME1 Adept - on Veteran)

On lower levels Shockwave becomes a good thing to have at least one pt in.  Also Singularity becomes less important to max because the other skills grow in effectiveness.

I loved the Sigularity/Pull Field - Shockwave combo on Veteran run, but I soon considered it rather useless on Insanity, but I agree it's a great power fighting unprotected enemies.

Also Energy Drain(not for collector missions) also is a very nice skill to have on adepts at higher levels, but you wouldn't get as much bang for the skill on lower difficulty.

This is a good build for insanity Bozorgmehr, very similar to what I run, with the only real option change is warp ammo for an alternative to Barrier, but both are very good, depending on your playstyle. 

My strategy is to get access to Warp, Throw, Singularity and Pull asap - getting CD down second; then I start working on Warp, Singularity and bonus power (I use Barrier just for the lifesaving ability - though I used to get Warp Ammo, I now consider it to be a marginal bonus power; until Collector ship the Adept's firepower is limited (though Locust is an excellent weapon), most damage will be done using biotics making the Warp Ammo's impact insignificant. After Horizon you can get 3+ biotic upgrades getting Barrier CD under control). I always use Heavy Barrier and Area Drain on Geth missions.

I think Adept will be most powerful reaching level 21:

4 Heavy Warp
1 Throw
4 Heavy Singularity
1 Pull
4 Bastion (or Nemesis against Geth)
4 Heavy Barrier (or Area Drain against Geth)

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 27 août 2010 - 08:47 .

[AdamNW]

Vanguard:

Incendiary Ammo (2)
Squad Cryo Ammo (4)
Heavy Charge (4)
Shockwave (1)
Pull (0)
Assault Mastery (3)
Dominate (1)

I can't remember exactly, but doesn't having the bonus skill automatically put one point into it for free?  If not, just take Dominate off.

Modifié par AdamNW, 27 août 2010 - 08:55 .

[ryoldschool]

Its a good thing that the game scales to your level, because I never played ME1 so I'm like at level 10 at Horizon. I have had the collector trap mission trigger at level 15 before ( highest I've ever been on collector trap is 18 ). So that is why Jacob and Grunt always have squad incendary because I can only get a decent ammo by getting it from a squadmate.

[numotsbane]

I've personally never found horizon as challenging as the really early missions where you simply can't get the options. level 3 and 4 engineer is brutal, you have average gunplay and can't get access to all the different power options.



Are we going to give ourselves 31 points (mandatory 1 in bonus power) or just 30? I can't decide. I've done all my builds assuming 30pts to spend, though maybe 31 with a mandatory bonus is better/ more accurate.



I will update the OP at some point too.

[Mr_Raider]

numotsbane wrote...

I've personally never found horizon as challenging as the really early missions where you simply can't get the options. level 3 and 4 engineer is brutal, you have average gunplay and can't get access to all the different power options.

Are we going to give ourselves 31 points (mandatory 1 in bonus power) or just 30? I can't decide. I've done all my builds assuming 30pts to spend, though maybe 31 with a mandatory bonus is better/ more accurate.

I will update the OP at some point too.

You are forced to pick a bonus power on any playthrough after the first, and you get one point in it. Once you get the scientist, you can retrain that power. If you don't like bonus powers just leave one point in something that has some utility. I.e. a sentinel can get energy drain and use that until he fills out warp, passive and tech armor, then respec the point out of energy drain in to overload if desired. IIRC, ou can't respec unitl horizon anyway.

[Arhka]

I find it necessary at least before Horizon I max out Warp or Reave with my Biotic guys. On my techies, Incinerate.

[numotsbane]

Another Sentinel Build: Early Shatter Sentinel. do you think this is more effective than the other?
Throw:[][]
Warp: -
Assault Armour: [][][][]
Overload:[][]
Cryo:[][]
Passive:[][][]
Warp Ammo:[][][]

The Dominate Engineer is quite good. I've not yet tested the early build, though on paper my take on it looks... weak.
Overload:
Ininerate:[]
Drone:[][][][]
Cryo:[][]
Hacking:[][]
Passive:[][][][]
Dominate:[][]

[Mr_Raider]

numotsbane wrote...

Another Sentinel Build: Early Shatter Sentinel. do you think this is more effective than the other?
Throw:[][]
Warp: -
Assault Armour: [][][][]
Overload:[][]
Cryo:[][]
Passive:[][][]
Warp Ammo:[][][]

I would go:
Throw 2
Warp: 0
Assault armour: 4
Overload: 2
cryo: 2
Guardian 4
Bonus:   1

The  faster cooldown from guardian is key if you rely on throw and shatter a lot. You can just get a squadmate with squad incendiary fro teh Horizon mission.

[numotsbane]

Updated the OP. of the options, which ones are more efective?

[Mr_Raider]

Having played an ED sentinel I agree it rocks.



This was my setup at level 15:



Throw 3

Warp 6

Assault armour: 10

Overload: 0

Cryo: 0

Guardian: 10

Energy drain: 1



My reasoning is as follows: getting one free point in ED early allows you to skip overload. I only use ED as my first move or when I need to recharge the shield. The rest of thetime I bring jacob along for squad incendiary and his pull for warp bombs. Most of shield heavy missions involving geth are after Horizon.





Throw was advanced to 2 to unlock warp. I got warp to 3 ASAP because warp explosions are key to keeping collector fights short and controlling harbinger. It also does nice damage on Praetorians (you wont have the Cain) and scions.



I forego cryo entirely early in the game and roll with Mordin and Jacob. This allows you to strip armor fast with incinerate, setup warp bombs, and access to incendiary ammo. If mordin uses cryo, you can then shatter with your throw. Jack/Grunt is also a nice team, although Mordin's incinerate really shines on Collector mission.



If yoy want a "caster" sentinel, just change asault to power armor. I still like Guradian for the fast cooldowns though, and blood dragon armor gives me 15% power damage.

[numotsbane]

I think assault armour is generally better regardless of whether you're casting or playing close quarters. the +50% shields that come up after a tech armour burst are really useful. and it makes the bursts really count for something.

I've been playing without warp explosions on my sentinel for a while now. you lose some of the direct damage but generally I don't miss it too much.