925 réponses à ce sujet

[AlanC9]

Mike2640 wrote...
Someone on this board made the comment that all RPG elements are meant to hold up the story and characters first and foremost. If something else becomes more important gameplay-wise it ceases to be an RPG. In ME2 the combat took precedence over everything else.

If RPG elements are supposed to support the story then ME2's succeeded and ME1's failed. The ME1 mechanics make Shepard incompetent with weapons he should be competent with

[Mike2640]

AlanC9 wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...
Someone on this board made the comment that all RPG elements are meant to hold up the story and characters first and foremost. If something else becomes more important gameplay-wise it ceases to be an RPG. In ME2 the combat took precedence over everything else.

If RPG elements are supposed to support the story then ME2's succeeded and ME1's failed. The ME1 mechanics make Shepard incompetent with weapons he should be competent with

You ever think that level 1 shep is where most soldiers are? You ever fire an assault rifle (Or any weapon for that matter) in the middle of a high fire zone?

Also you missed the point. Story is what is to be most important in an RPG, not the combat.

Modifié par Mike2640, 29 août 2010 - 06:31 .

[Torhagen]

JoePinasi1989 wrote...

Torhagen wrote...

Think of your favourite Game and or Developer you really <3 that game you are thrilled that there is a sequel on the way.
The Developer states they will improve the game   and you are like they make the game even better.

You cant wait for the sequel. The day the sequel is released you cant wait to get home and play the game on your
(enter Plattform here) shortly after you started playing your wondering wait a minute something is here. When you realize that quite some points you <3 about that game have not just been reduced or streamlined no they have been deleted without substitution and then you are like . Why would they do that ? then you think i dont like the change but its a game right ?
so no point in being about it.you look for the other promise they made that your decision of the previous game will have a impact on the second one but again where is that impact ?

Drama King.

is that better

An RPG is a sophisticated Plot and interesting Story, Character
development with talents which have a impact of how you play the
game,some kind of an inventory system take "the Witcher" as a example
for a good streamlined inventory and last but not least loot where i
think considering Loot Diablo is most prominent for where people would
play the same part in different difficulties "just" to get that better
item



The Witcher and Diablo are both RPG very different in Playstyle but easily identifiable as RPG's

Modifié par Torhagen, 29 août 2010 - 07:22 .

[addiction21]

Mike2640 wrote...


You ever think that level 1 shep is where most soldiers are? You ever fire an assault rifle (Or any weapon for that matter) in the middle of a high fire zone?

Also you missed the point. Story is what is to be most important in an RPG, not the combat.

Well at that point in ME1 Shep is not the average solider. Hes allready been serving for a while by that time, battle hardened, and has been singled out to be a spectre the elite of the elite. Why would he be on the same level as the rookie solider walking into a combat situation for the first time?
I understand the reasons for it. You need to start from a place and grow from there. Neither system used in the Mass Effect games bothered me and both fit well into the style of the game that was developed.

I am not sure on the correlation between modern day soliders and Mass Effect. Mass Effect guns use the Mass Effect fields (like magnetic accelartion so theres no or little recoil at all. I could be wrong its been a while since I last played and even longer since reading the codex's) who also have Kinetic shields and medi gel.
Where as modern day do not hae the shields and quick fix of medi gel. The weapons used also have significant recoil due to the combustion of gunpowder the reson for muzzle climb, recoil (talking about backwards force produced) and is what is used to ejet the round, load the next, and reset the firing pin.

Bah Im rambling again.

[Lusitanum]

Mike2640 wrote...

You ever think that level 1 shep is where most soldiers are? You ever fire an assault rifle (Or any weapon for that matter) in the middle of a high fire zone?

Also you missed the point. Story is what is to be most important in an RPG, not the combat.

Yes, story should be the most important aspect, but if the combat is as shallow and boring as the one in Dragon Age, then the whole game is a chore that you put up with just to get on with the game. Oh, and when said game is around 80 hours long and about 85% of that is combat... then it's a real endurance test that most would just decline in favor of something that doesn't make them feel like killing themselves.

I should know, I've had to resort to several games to keep my spirits up while on my last DA playthrough because just meeting the party members that I fell in love with in my first game wasn't enough to keep me playing. Civilization IV, Hearts of Iron, Plain Sight, Team Fortress 2... just something that didn't feel like a dumbed-down MMORPG. Without the MMO aspect. And the fun.

Here's to hoping that, now that I've finally started playing Awakening, at least the story and the characters will help me to put up with the fact that I still have to put up with a ton of more of the same horde after horde of Darkspawn. Thankfully Oghren, Nathaniel and Adrens are doing a good job at it so far, but we'll see how long they (and the rest of the game) holds up.

So yes, I'm all for they "Mass Effectify" DA2, so long as it means that I get a good story with great characters (finally without the same expressionless mute PC that always brings me back to the fact I'm just playing a game and ruins my suspension of disbelief) that we are used to, along with a gameplay that not only helps to drive the story, but also supports the game on its own through sheer gameplay value when the story no longer holds any more secrets for us. Because Lord knows DA failed miserably on that last category.

[Mehow_pwn]

Burn the Hertic!!!!!

I refuse to have another God of war/ Halo/CoD or any FPS with some tiny RPG and story.. BECAUSE that's execly what you are calling an RPG

Modifié par Mehow_pwn, 29 août 2010 - 08:19 .

[Torhagen]

Lusitanum wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

You ever think that level 1 shep is where most soldiers are? You ever fire an assault rifle (Or any weapon for that matter) in the middle of a high fire zone?

Also you missed the point. Story is what is to be most important in an RPG, not the combat.

Yes, story should be the most important aspect, but if the combat is as shallow and boring as the one in Dragon Age, then the whole game is a chore that you put up with just to get on with the game. Oh, and when said game is around 80 hours long and about 85% of that is combat... then it's a real endurance test that most would just decline in favor of something that doesn't make them feel like killing themselves.

I should know, I've had to resort to several games to keep my spirits up while on my last DA playthrough because just meeting the party members that I fell in love with in my first game wasn't enough to keep me playing. Civilization IV, Hearts of Iron, Plain Sight, Team Fortress 2... just something that didn't feel like a dumbed-down MMORPG. Without the MMO aspect. And the fun.

Here's to hoping that, now that I've finally started playing Awakening, at least the story and the characters will help me to put up with the fact that I still have to put up with a ton of more of the same horde after horde of Darkspawn. Thankfully Oghren, Nathaniel and Adrens are doing a good job at it so far, but we'll see how long they (and the rest of the game) holds up.

So yes, I'm all for they "Mass Effectify" DA2, so long as it means that I get a good story with great characters (finally without the same expressionless mute PC that always brings me back to the fact I'm just playing a game and ruins my suspension of disbelief) that we are used to, along with a gameplay that not only helps to drive the story, but also supports the game on its own through sheer gameplay value when the story no longer holds any more secrets for us. Because Lord knows DA failed miserably on that last category.

May i ask you what part of the DA Combat is shallow ?
I give you the advice to raise the difficulty if it is too easy for you.

Modifié par Torhagen, 29 août 2010 - 08:20 .

[joriandrake]

thegreateski wrote...

Yes. You are.

[Rhayth]

Personally from pics i've seen it seems they did Effect the Dragon Age game.

[Bryy_Miller]

I honestly don't understand the whole concept of Dragon Effect. Why? How exactly does DA2 look like Mass Effect? I actually talked to someone once who thought that the ME2 inventory would be used in DA2.

[addiction21]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I honestly don't understand the whole concept of Dragon Effect. Why? How exactly does DA2 look like Mass Effect? I actually talked to someone once who thought that the ME2 inventory would be used in DA2.

They both use colors for one thing. Maybe it is because the humans have two eyes, two ears, two hands, two legs, and a roundish head?

[Anaraky]

Oh jesus, where do I even begin?

Alright, first of all, stop the mudslinging and groundless accusations. Saying that the OP wants DA2 to be a shooter because he mentioned ME2 just prove that you missed the point by miles or just didn't care to read it (ironic since a lot the "RPG purists" flamed the OP for having ADD/short attention span etc). Also just because people disagree with the OP doesn't mean they need to be insulted for it. This is a forum for game discussion and if you cant think to post something other then a generic insulting ignorant statement then please refrain from posting altogether. Thank you.

ME/ME2 is RPGs despite what all the RPG "elitist" are saying. You not liking them does not change that fact nor do the fact that they aren't a cookiecutter fantasy RPG make them sucky.

With that said, the OP really have some valid points. Looting the 54th Tier 2 Iron Dagger isn't fun. While I wholeheartedly agree that the inventory should stay and I agree that not every drop should be an upgrade a veritable shower of junk items isn't really the way to go. And even when one did find an upgrade it really wasn't all that exciting (apart from a handful items which where really great). Sure it might be more realistic that you can loot heaps of junk of the corpses, but realism isn't what gaming is about. As long as sacrificing realism doesn't heavily disturb the immersion it should be traded for better gameplay every time.

I also agree with the fetching and running everywhere. Don't get me wrong, I do enjoy exploring but most of DA's sidequests where pretty bland in my opinion. Get to the charter ->Collect quests ->Kill stuff or Loot items ->Return to charter was a widely used frame for a lot of sidequests in DA. I can honestly say that I really didn't get hooked by a single Charter/Liason/Irregular quest, I did them the same way I quest in an MMO which is just wrong for a singleplayer game. There was just zero immersion. 

My next rant is going to be about the ability system. At first glance it seems solid, and it really is most of the time, but it really doesn't strike me as that well designed. Mages for example, having to get a bunch of really lackluster spells just to get their hands on some of the better ones. I aren't saying that they should come free but there are better ways of designing such a system. Another example of the ability systems shortcomings is the warrior class. When playing through the game with my 2h warrior I had to refrain from using ability points on several occasions before I even got to Landsmeet. Why? Because I had nothing good to spend them on. Having access to S&B, 2H and DW is all fine and dandy but when one has filled out the talent trees connected to the weaponstyle of choice there are really few places to put the remaining talents. This could be improved.

Also before all the one-line flinging monkies of the interwebs start insulting me I want to say that I accept and cherish the fact that DA is a "classical RPG". I don't want to turn it into a FPS or a Ninja Gaiden/Zelda esque game. Nor do I think DA is bad, I actually find it incredibly solid. However, I don't find it infallible or perfect and claiming that just puts you in the same group as all the Halo / MW2 fanboys you seem to despise. They can and should try improve things in the DA to DA2 transition, changing nothing is just a step in the wrong direction.

Opinions TM above.

Modifié par Anaraky, 29 août 2010 - 10:40 .

[Niten Ryu]

Sounds good. I'm with OP.

[2papercuts]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I honestly don't understand the whole concept of Dragon Effect. Why? How exactly does DA2 look like Mass Effect? I actually talked to someone once who thought that the ME2 inventory would be used in DA2.

well similarities like a vioced character with dialogue wheel and only human. also what seems to be gameplay more focused on action and less on strategy although that has not been proven. no iso too

Modifié par 2papercuts, 29 août 2010 - 10:51 .

[Bryy_Miller]

2papercuts wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I honestly don't understand the whole concept of Dragon Effect. Why? How exactly does DA2 look like Mass Effect? I actually talked to someone once who thought that the ME2 inventory would be used in DA2.

well similarities like a vioced character with dialogue wheel and only human. also what seems to be gameplay more focused on action and less on strategy although that has not been proven. no iso too

See, I can roll with that. I'm just sick of hearing people complain about how the company buzzwords equal these ridiculously complex ideas.

[Giggles_Manically]

I dont mind a new combat system at all, since Origins was clunky and sometimes just annoying.

I dont mind an inventory tweak that changes some stuff up since sorting through a ton of crap to find one gem is annoying.



I dont like the fact that we have a voiced PC though. No matter how hard ME tries I never feel like Shepard. I keep going "thats not what I wanted to say" or "I didnt want to pull my gun" or even "why does every option come out just stupid". To me a game stops being an RPG when you cant identify with the main PC, choices are great but If I have to listen to some unemotional brick monotone out lines than I am not interested.



Hey I love ME1, and like ME2 just fine, but I dont really get into them over the voiced PC since, if its an RPG why do I feel like I am watching a movie and not playing a game?

[2papercuts]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

2papercuts wrote...

Bryy_Miller wrote...

I honestly don't understand the whole concept of Dragon Effect. Why? How exactly does DA2 look like Mass Effect? I actually talked to someone once who thought that the ME2 inventory would be used in DA2.

well similarities like a vioced character with dialogue wheel and only human. also what seems to be gameplay more focused on action and less on strategy although that has not been proven. no iso too

See, I can roll with that. I'm just sick of hearing people complain about how the company buzzwords equal these ridiculously complex ideas.

also i think that the voiced character will result in less conversations with companions due to budget, as seen in ME2, but this hasn't been proven

[Raxxman]

Torhagen wrote...

May i ask you what part of the DA Combat is shallow ?
I give you the advice to raise the difficulty if it is too easy for you.

Most of it.

Flip it around, what's complex about it? 

[Morroian]

Anaraky wrote...
Alright, first of all, stop the mudslinging and groundless accusations. Saying that the OP wants DA2 to be a shooter because he mentioned ME2 just prove that you missed the point by miles or just didn't care to read it (ironic since a lot the "RPG purists" flamed the OP for having ADD/short attention span etc). Also just because people disagree with the OP doesn't mean they need to be insulted for it. This is a forum for game discussion and if you cant think to post something other then a generic insulting ignorant statement then please refrain from posting altogether. Thank you.

I agree, unfortunately the forum is full of it and really needs to be more tightly controlled by the mods.

Anaraky wrote...
With that said, the OP really have some valid points. Looting the 54th Tier 2 Iron Dagger isn't fun. While I wholeheartedly agree that the inventory should stay and I agree that not every drop should be an upgrade a veritable shower of junk items isn't really the way to go. And even when one did find an upgrade it really wasn't all that exciting (apart from a handful items which where really great). Sure it might be more realistic that you can loot heaps of junk of the corpses, but realism isn't what gaming is about. As long as sacrificing realism doesn't heavily disturb the immersion it should be traded for better gameplay every time.

I think I've said it before but I'd love to see the game adopt the random weapon generator loot system of Borderlands, yes its a sci fi FPS (or role playing shooter) but the loot system is straight out of rpgs and works wonderfully well.

Anaraky wrote...
My next rant is going to be about the ability system. At first glance it seems solid, and it really is most of the time, but it really doesn't strike me as that well designed. Mages for example, having to get a bunch of really lackluster spells just to get their hands on some of the better ones. I aren't saying that they should come free but there are better ways of designing such a system. 

I think they have actually re-designed the system with these sort of complaints in mind. Its apparently more of an interlinking tree structure in DA2.

Modifié par Morroian, 30 août 2010 - 12:11 .

[AdamNW]

True stat-based RPG's are a thing of the past, people. Action RPG's are the way to go

[Mike2640]

Lusitanum wrote...

Mike2640 wrote...

You ever think that level 1 shep is where most soldiers are? You ever fire an assault rifle (Or any weapon for that matter) in the middle of a high fire zone?

Also you missed the point. Story is what is to be most important in an RPG, not the combat.

Yes, story should be the most important aspect, but if the combat is as shallow and boring as the one in Dragon Age, then the whole game is a chore that you put up with just to get on with the game. Oh, and when said game is around 80 hours long and about 85% of that is combat... then it's a real endurance test that most would just decline in favor of something that doesn't make them feel like killing themselves.

I should know, I've had to resort to several games to keep my spirits up while on my last DA playthrough because just meeting the party members that I fell in love with in my first game wasn't enough to keep me playing. Civilization IV, Hearts of Iron, Plain Sight, Team Fortress 2... just something that didn't feel like a dumbed-down MMORPG. Without the MMO aspect. And the fun.

Here's to hoping that, now that I've finally started playing Awakening, at least the story and the characters will help me to put up with the fact that I still have to put up with a ton of more of the same horde after horde of Darkspawn. Thankfully Oghren, Nathaniel and Adrens are doing a good job at it so far, but we'll see how long they (and the rest of the game) holds up.

So yes, I'm all for they "Mass Effectify" DA2, so long as it means that I get a good story with great characters (finally without the same expressionless mute PC that always brings me back to the fact I'm just playing a game and ruins my suspension of disbelief) that we are used to, along with a gameplay that not only helps to drive the story, but also supports the game on its own through sheer gameplay value when the story no longer holds any more secrets for us. Because Lord knows DA failed miserably on that last category.

I'd take a game like Dragon Age or Fallout over another Gears of War immitator like Mass Effect 2 was.

[Tirigon]

Merced256 wrote...

Tirigon wrote...

RPG purists are usually very stupid, just like all conservative people.

I'm wondering if someone can really be stupid enough to actually believe your statement. I can make the statement that everyone named tirigon is a ****ing moron, but i'd have more basis and proof than you did when you made your statement.

Your ridiculous reaction proves me right. RPG purists are incredibly stupid, just like all conservatives.

[Tirigon]

Woodey wrote...

 
There are dozens of FPS games every year.  Why do you think that the last few real RPGs should be eliminated for your pleasure? 

It is very selfish of you.  Go find the games you like and have joy of them but leave our RPGs, as few as they are, alone.

Why do so many people think you want a FPS if you ask for an improved RPG?!