925 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Tirigon wrote...

I don´t mind Shepard´s voice. What annoys me is that he often (in fact, almost 99% of the time) says stuff I wouldn´t have chosen had it been written down the way it is spoken.

While I agree this happened almost every single line in Mass Effect, I found it occurred far less often in ME2.

I think the writers got better.

[Lumikki]

I have nothing agaist ME2 type of gameplay, but I don't think DA2 is right for it. DAO was little different style than ME serie. DAO was more traditional RPG style than this new cinematic style. How ever, I have got feeling that what ever I think, Bioware is going to more cinematic style anyway.

Modifié par Lumikki, 08 septembre 2010 - 07:50 .

[DaringMoosejaw]

Let's hope they Mass Effectify their DLCs if LotSB vs. Witch Hunt is anything to go by.

[FlintlockJazz]

Lumikki wrote...

I have nothing agaist ME2 type of gameplay, but I don't think DA2 is right for it. DAO was little different style than ME serie. DAO was more traditional RPG style than this new cinematic style. How ever, I have got feeling that what ever I think, Bioware is going to more cinematic style anyway.

I agree totally.  The ME setting feels like a more fast-paced cinematic setting to me, one where gunshots are meant to be lethal and cover is paramount, which I feel ME1 did not convey as well as ME2 did.  DAO, while also a lethal setting, also seems slower paced to me, and less cinematic than ME with combat meant to be more tactical and travel taking months.

[maxernst]

Bioware has always tended toward the cinematic. If I had one wish for something they could change, it would be this extremely irritating habit of taking control of your characters prior to every big boss battle. As somebody whose preferred mode of play is to scout ahead with a hidden rogue, it really annoys me that when my hidden rogue approaches a boss, not only is he automatically visible, but all my other characters are right there in a little bunch behind him. But they've been driving me crazy with this since BG1.

[FlintlockJazz]

maxernst wrote...

Bioware has always tended toward the cinematic. If I had one wish for something they could change, it would be this extremely irritating habit of taking control of your characters prior to every big boss battle. As somebody whose preferred mode of play is to scout ahead with a hidden rogue, it really annoys me that when my hidden rogue approaches a boss, not only is he automatically visible, but all my other characters are right there in a little bunch behind him. But they've been driving me crazy with this since BG1.

I also agree with this.  The part in DAO when you [spoiler alert!] meet Zevran especially annoyed me.  When the woman came running up to my warden and started begging for help and asked me to run after me the first thing I thought was "Obvious trap is obvious..."  Instead of running after her, I walked really slowly looking all over the place with my rogue searching for traps while noting that the caravan seemed remarkably quiet for being under attack.  Immediately picked up that there were traps nearby, but when I sent the rogue to disarm them the cutscene immediately cut in, wherein my entire party just walks into the trap with inane look on their faces...  Was not impressed that all my effort meant nothing, and that very trap subsequently caused issues in dealing with the ambush as well. <_<

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

Bioware has always tended toward the cinematic. If I had one wish for something they could change, it would be this extremely irritating habit of taking control of your characters prior to every big boss battle. As somebody whose preferred mode of play is to scout ahead with a hidden rogue, it really annoys me that when my hidden rogue approaches a boss, not only is he automatically visible, but all my other characters are right there in a little bunch behind him. But they've been driving me crazy with this since BG1.

It was even more annoying in DAO because during development they explicitly told us they wouldn't do that any more.

[andar91]

I don't want the gameplay style to change too much, and so far I'm not really worried. However, I do LOVE the way the cutscenes/dialogue look now and I'm assuming they're similar to mass effect's (I've never played it). They just seem soooo much more alive.

[UltraBoy360]

After buying and playing Witch Hunt and Lair of the Shadow Broker yesterday I'm sorry to say that I hope they Mass Effectify DA2's brains out.

[Penumbra]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

After buying and playing Witch Hunt and Lair of the Shadow Broker yesterday I'm sorry to say that I hope they Mass Effectify DA2's brains out.

Ding ding ding!

DA can only benefit from being mass effected, considering how much better all the ME DLC (and core game) have been than DA.  

I wanted so badly to like Dragon Age.  I had friends who straight up told me it was a bad game before I bought it, bought it anyway.  Loved Morrigan, eventually liked Allistair, loved Zhevran, liked Leilani eventually...  found the story to be trite and badly put together.

Was outraged when I completed the game and things that were really important to my character not only didn't figure in to the ending montouge but were actually refuted.  

Dragon Age has a cool style and a ton of good ideas but has been horribly mishandled and it makes me sad because I so wanted to see some glorious fantasy stuff from Bioware.

[UltraBoy360]

Penumbra wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

After buying and playing Witch Hunt and Lair of the Shadow Broker yesterday I'm sorry to say that I hope they Mass Effectify DA2's brains out.

Ding ding ding!

DA can only benefit from being mass effected, considering how much better all the ME DLC (and core game) have been than DA.  

I wanted so badly to like Dragon Age.  I had friends who straight up told me it was a bad game before I bought it, bought it anyway.  Loved Morrigan, eventually liked Allistair, loved Zhevran, liked Leilani eventually...  found the story to be trite and badly put together.

Was outraged when I completed the game and things that were really important to my character not only didn't figure in to the ending montouge but were actually refuted.  

Dragon Age has a cool style and a ton of good ideas but has been horribly mishandled and it makes me sad because I so wanted to see some glorious fantasy stuff from Bioware.

I did love the main game at the time, and loved the characters and writing, but ever bit of DLC and Awakenings has made me like it less and less. Whereas ME2 DLC has made me love it more and more with each release.

Compare Golems to Overlord.... and as I said, Witch Hunt to LotSB... I mean, I can barely believe they're made by the same company. LotSB knew I was a sole survivor, who I'd romanced in ME1, who I'd romanced in ME2, my Noveria and Citadel decisions, my Suicide Mission result, the Virmire Survivor.... that's just off the top of my head, not to mention the amazing universe and character building stuff post endgame. WH looked and felt like it had been made by subpar modders who somehow managed to get Claudia Black to do a 10 minute freebie.

DAO DLC reminds me of leaving a club two hours after you stopped having a good time. The first few hours were awesome, and if I'd left when the music turned bad I'd have looked back on the night as an awesome time. As it is, I stayed to the end... my friends had all left and there was a hellish queue at the coat check (and no taxis).

That's how Witch Hunt made me feel.

[Jestina]

Thinking is bad. Must mash button more.



RIP cerebral gaming.

[UltraBoy360]

Leaving aside whether assigning skill and talent points can be described as 'cerebral' I find the thematic and ethical underpinnings of the ME series far more interesting and challenging than anything DA has come up with to date. I hope that changes with DA2.

I actually found the world building by the writing team in DAO to be really fascinating and a great analogue to medieval Europe and its religion. It sounds like DA2 is going to build on that which I feel will deliver a more 'cerebral' story than fighting a bunch of orcs that are trying to destroy the world. Kinda how I found ME2's story/ies to be more interesting that ME1's super-villain seeks to destroy the universe.

Modifié par UltraBoy360, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:38 .

[AndrahilAdrian]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

I did love the main game at the time, and loved the characters and writing, but ever bit of DLC and Awakenings has made me like it less and less. Whereas ME2 DLC has made me love it more and more with each release.

Compare Golems to Overlord.... and as I said, Witch Hunt to LotSB... I mean, I can barely believe they're made by the same company. LotSB knew I was a sole survivor, who I'd romanced in ME1, who I'd romanced in ME2, my Noveria and Citadel decisions, my Suicide Mission result, the Virmire Survivor.... that's just off the top of my head, not to mention the amazing universe and character building stuff post endgame. WH looked and felt like it had been made by subpar modders who somehow managed to get Claudia Black to do a 10 minute freebie.

That's how Witch Hunt made me feel.

I fully agree with this. And I love the cinematic style of ME and I look forward to seeing it adapted to the DA universe.

[tomcruisejr]

not happening. they made DA2 combat much more fluid, the rpg elements are all the same.



(unlike ME2)

[Morroian]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

Leaving aside whether assigning skill and talent points can be described as 'cerebral' I find the thematic and ethical underpinnings of the ME series far more interesting and challenging than anything DA has come up with to date. I hope that changes with DA2.

Seriously?

UltraBoy360 wrote...
I actually found the world building by the writing team in DAO to be really fascinating and a great analogue to medieval Europe and is religion. It sounds like DA2 is going to build on that which I feel like will deliver a more 'cerebral' story than fighting a bunch of orcs that are trying to destroy the world.

If thats what you think you missed the thematic and ethical underpinnings of DAO.

[UltraBoy360]

Morroian wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

Leaving aside whether assigning skill and talent points can be described as 'cerebral' I find the thematic and ethical underpinnings of the ME series far more interesting and challenging than anything DA has come up with to date. I hope that changes with DA2.

Seriously?

UltraBoy360 wrote...
I actually found the world building by the writing team in DAO to be really fascinating and a great analogue to medieval Europe and is religion. It sounds like DA2 is going to build on that which I feel like will deliver a more 'cerebral' story than fighting a bunch of orcs that are trying to destroy the world.

If thats what you think you missed the thematic and ethical underpinnings of DAO.

Maybe. Don't get me wrong, I really, really liked DA:O and loved that it gave me the opportunity to play as an LGBT character - better than ME ever did/does. I really loved the politics, thought Loghain was a tremendous character, liked the uniting of the races etc....

It's really the horrendous DLC that has soured me towards it. That and the attitude of some people on these boards that PC DAO players are up there with Stephen Hawking and ME fans are the equivalent of the missing link.

Witch Hunt was so subpar as an ending for my Warden that it has pretty much spoiled DA:O for me. Hopefully I'll get over it, but in the meantime I'll look forward to the changes in DA2 and more focus on the stuff I liked in DA:O (like the politics and further world building of Thedas).

Modifié par UltraBoy360, 09 septembre 2010 - 10:37 .

[Riona45]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Have you ever watched a woman dig through her purse looking for something?  It's basically a big bag filled with stuff, and there's no structure to it at all.

Not necessarily true.  Most bags have compartments in them.  There's no reason why a purse can't be organized, it's just that not every person is equally organized.

Modifié par Riona45, 09 septembre 2010 - 05:47 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

Leaving aside whether assigning skill and talent points can be described as 'cerebral' I find the thematic and ethical underpinnings of the ME series far more interesting and challenging than anything DA has come up with to date.

I don't recall ME containing a single interesting ethical choice outside of the rachni queen.  Not one.

And then, if you happened to save the rachni, you were forced to adopt the opposite ethical position on Virmire.  That's just sloppy construction.

Add to that ME's general lack of roleplaying (you couldn't even choose what you'd say and do from moment to moment) and it pales in comparion to every other game BioWare has ever made.  If I were to rank BioWare's RPGs ME would be right down at the very bottom.

ME2 would be significantly above it and even challenge Jade Empire for fifth.

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

Bioware has always tended toward the cinematic. If I had one wish for something they could change...

If I had one wish for something they could change, it would be this trend toward the cinematic.

[FlintlockJazz]

UltraBoy360 wrote...

I did love the main game at the time, and loved the characters and writing, but ever bit of DLC and Awakenings has made me like it less and less. Whereas ME2 DLC has made me love it more and more with each release.

Compare Golems to Overlord.... and as I said, Witch Hunt to LotSB... I mean, I can barely believe they're made by the same company. LotSB knew I was a sole survivor, who I'd romanced in ME1, who I'd romanced in ME2, my Noveria and Citadel decisions, my Suicide Mission result, the Virmire Survivor.... that's just off the top of my head, not to mention the amazing universe and character building stuff post endgame. WH looked and felt like it had been made by subpar modders who somehow managed to get Claudia Black to do a 10 minute freebie.

DAO DLC reminds me of leaving a club two hours after you stopped having a good time. The first few hours were awesome, and if I'd left when the music turned bad I'd have looked back on the night as an awesome time. As it is, I stayed to the end... my friends had all left and there was a hellish queue at the coat check (and no taxis).

That's how Witch Hunt made me feel.

Isn't that more an issue with the dlc than with the game itself though?  Changing the style of the game won't make you like the dlc anymore if they are of the same quality.  Basically, they should be working on better quality dlc, not changing the base game while still shovelling out the same trite for profit.

Modifié par FlintlockJazz, 09 septembre 2010 - 02:10 .

[In Exile]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I don't recall ME containing a single interesting ethical choice outside of the rachni queen.  Not one.

We spoke about this before, but if I recall you think ethical decision making is algorithmic. I'm curious what your standad for interesting ethical choice is, since from what I know, it can't be the difficultly in deliberating over it (which is how most would define it).

[Sylvius the Mad]

In Exile wrote...

We spoke about this before, but if I recall you think ethical decision making is algorithmic.

All decision making is algorithmic

I'm curious what your standad for interesting ethical choice is, since from what I know, it can't be the difficultly in deliberating over it (which is how most would define it).

WIth the rachni queen choice, neither side had a particularly strong case.  There was too much uncertainty about the outcome.

I'm hard pressed to think of another choice in ME to which to compare it, given that the dialogue system didn't allow choice at all, and the other comparable situations (the genophage cure and the Thorian) only let you choose genocide.

Is there an ethical choice from ME that springs to your mind that we could discuss?

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 09 septembre 2010 - 08:28 .

[UltraBoy360]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

UltraBoy360 wrote...

I did love the main game at the time, and loved the characters and writing, but ever bit of DLC and Awakenings has made me like it less and less. Whereas ME2 DLC has made me love it more and more with each release.

Compare Golems to Overlord.... and as I said, Witch Hunt to LotSB... I mean, I can barely believe they're made by the same company. LotSB knew I was a sole survivor, who I'd romanced in ME1, who I'd romanced in ME2, my Noveria and Citadel decisions, my Suicide Mission result, the Virmire Survivor.... that's just off the top of my head, not to mention the amazing universe and character building stuff post endgame. WH looked and felt like it had been made by subpar modders who somehow managed to get Claudia Black to do a 10 minute freebie.

DAO DLC reminds me of leaving a club two hours after you stopped having a good time. The first few hours were awesome, and if I'd left when the music turned bad I'd have looked back on the night as an awesome time. As it is, I stayed to the end... my friends had all left and there was a hellish queue at the coat check (and no taxis).

That's how Witch Hunt made me feel.

Isn't that more an issue with the dlc than with the game itself though?  Changing the style of the game won't make you like the dlc anymore if they are of the same quality.  Basically, they should be working on better quality dlc, not changing the base game while still shovelling out the same trite for profit.

You're right, it's absolutely a problem with the DLC. The main game is still the main game (which I loved). It's kinda an emotional response (it's the closest I've come to nerd-rage!!). I actually really liked the Leliana DLC, but Golums and Witch Hunt, the last two adventures of my Warden.... were so awful (to my mind) that I feel like the epic story I participated in with DAO is cheapened. Kinda like when you love a book and the end is either lame or doesn't resonate with you personally (I'm looking at you Captain Corelli's Mandolin).

It's also helped me realise why I liked DA:O in the first place, and that was the characters, the world, the codex, the sub-plots - it really wasn't the leveling, the combat or the looting at all. So with DLC, when the former story elements aren't there, are too thin, or I don't personally like them (Witch Hunt) - I find the gameplay a chore.

My favourite part of LotSB was the Liara dialogue and world building stuff at the end, the only bit I found interesting in Witch Hunt was the (bugged) two minute Morrigan conversation at the end (and the elf/dwarf codex story). I'll happily play through LotSB many times to reach my favourite bit, the idea of playing through Witch Hunt again once un-bugged makes me shudder.

I get why any loss of hard-RPG stuff upsets a lot of fans. I'm in the fortunate position that the direction I think Bioware is going resonates with me personally. Off the main forums, in one of the groups I'm a member of I've seen really interesting, more measured debate about DA2's direction, so I in no way want to denigrate people who love Baldur's Gate/DA:O style RPGs - I just happen to prefer the ME series... I really hope they pull off DA2 that keeps RPG fans happy, but still has the rich story that will get me invested no matter what the gameplay turns out to be.