925 réponses à ce sujet

[FDrage]

Tirigon wrote...

But of course braindead Oldschool elitists can´t understand such reasoning.

aren't we all elitest in regards to one thing or another (not just talking about game, but in general) ? Or is Elitest = braindead? or Oldschool = braindead ? or Newschool = braindead? or traditionalist = braindead ? or Differencietist = braindead? ... we are all doomed, because we are all braindead ...


On a side note, if they include a sniper rifle with a scope that actually is effective are ranges that aren't covered by other means ... then they can turn DA-titles into ME titles ...
But then again I personally don't mind either approaches (not saying that I would play all of them or even prefer all of them ... no certainly not), but I do recognize that different people prefer different approaches to gaming and in principl I wouldn't mind different approaches withion the DA-universe. I don't say I would like all of them or play all of them, but I don't see the DA-universe not supporting different game styles. So in principle ... why not?

Modifié par FDrage, 27 août 2010 - 12:36 .

[FDrage]

<not my day with double posts >

Modifié par FDrage, 27 août 2010 - 12:35 .

[Lord Gremlin]

shootist70 wrote...

Everytime I see 'dumbing down' mentioned I look at the post and laugh at the irony.

Sadly english is not my first language, otherwise I would have found some better way to describe what OP proposes to do.

[Onyx Jaguar]

Sniper rifles make everything better

[Guy4142]

Why can't we have original games with new or refined concepts that are different to other games of the same genre but also familiar, why the hell would you want games to start becoming clones of each other? Should the cinematography in films be the same as Avatar or another succesful film? Should all music be based off the beatles?



If i wanted something that was like Mass Effect i would just play that game, If i wanted something that was like Football Manager i would play football manager, i wouldn't want Super Mario to become more like Football Manager. I want people to be trying to think of new innovative mechanics and systems that serve specific purposes while keeping depth and overall remaning fun, i dont just want clones upon clones and nothing new.

[Onyx Jaguar]

But Sniper rifles make everything better

[Guy4142]

Onyx Jaguar wrote...

But Sniper rifles make everything better

I do agree.

[Ossifer]

fanman72 wrote...

 Let's be honest here - a lot of elements from  traditional RPGs are really unncessary and don't add to the overall experience of playing a video game.  The strengths of many RPGs - storyline, characters, etc. is something I don't think bioware will be skimping out on anytime soon.  Now don't get me wrong, the gameplay in DA was fun but was overall it wasn't the greatest gameplay experience in the world.  The storyline, mood/atmosphere, and memorable characters more than made up for what I perceived to be technical gameplay shortcomings.  Mass Effect 1 had similar issues, most of which were fixed in ME2.  No I dont' care about dealing with a clunky inventory as long as i can alter my character's equipment's appearance.  No I don't care about dealing with inventory weight.  No I don't care about leveling up.  No I don't care about spending half of my time travelling to different places back and forth for "fetch this" type quests (what I call filler time).  

Keep the characters, story, plot, visuals, graphics, choices etc interesting.  Those are the only elements i really care from an RPG.  Then for all I care it can play like Dragon Effect 2.


*Is a typical Bioware forum posting nerd*



*Enjoys looting a new water bottle from a dead hurlock so that he can sell it for 3 copper*



*Spends 15 minutes getting to appropiate vendor because you're running out of inventory space*





My point is that there are a significant amount of elements among traditional RPGs which are flat out annoying and detract from the gameplay experience, rather than add to it

I agree. I think that Bioware is trying to make good games, not specifically pure RPGs. They can trim down the combat machanics while retaining the storyline, and that's fine. That's innovating, and I think that the video games in general need more of that. In my opinion, Bioware shouldn't be restricted by what a "true" or "traditional" RPG should be to make good games. If what they make is similar to whatever a proper RPG is supposed to be, then that's great. If it's more "Mass Effectified" then that's great too. As long as it being a good game, first and foremost, trumps being a good RPG.

Hopefully that all made sense.

[Kilshrek]

Your cup of tea may not be to another person's liking, and vice versa.



Some people enjoy the RPG elements, specifically the nitty gritty of 'pure' RPG's. If I may use Fallout 1 & 2 as examples, and maybe throw in Arcanum just for good measure, they were good solid games that had a rather complex character building system in place, and a good story to go along with it. I'm sure I'm not alone in feeling that many modern games are leaving this behind, not because it's bad, but because there isn't much of a market for those sort of games any more. I'd like my Mass Effect and my Dragon Age, if you please. They need not overlap at all.

[Fredvdp]

Mass Effect was a better game so I like some of the changes in DA. The dialogue wheel and voice-over are much better than a guy who stares and shows no personality. Of course it would make sense to Mass Effectify the game in the right places. A traditional RPG requires inventory and the tactical combat it already has.

It seems BioWare is making the changes I wanted them to make. I'm convinced that Dragon Age 2 will be far superior that Origins. Now that they focus on one character the story will be better. Who didn't think Origins had a very basic unoriginal story? The ME dialogue system is a better way to tell a story and without it I wouldn't even buy DA2. When I first heard about the VO and dialogue wheel I thought: "Turns out I have to buy it after all."

Modifié par Fredvdp, 27 août 2010 - 02:43 .

[Aradace]

No, you're not actually....And from what I just saw on X-Play yesterday....All the whiners may as well pack it up and head home because that looks to be precisely what is going on (and Im happy for it.) In fact, they even went so far as to call it an "Action RPG"...much like they call Mass Effect the same thing.

Edit: That is, EA/BioWare called DA2 an "Action RPG" not X-Play lol....So that's coming from the proverbial "horse's mouth"

Modifié par Aradace, 27 août 2010 - 02:34 .

[kyleds]

I just think DA2 needs to be more cinematic and needs a better atmosphere.



Some allies don't seem worth the effort to recruit, like the dalish elves can't even deal with the werewolves so why would you need help from them to fight darkspawn.

[Jakeul200493]

I think it'd do BioWare good to incorporate some of the elements from Mass Effect, like the dialogue wheel, making the combat system more responsive etc. but I don't think they should full-on change the feel of Dragon Age

[AngryFrozenWater]

OP... You have bought the wrong game. Dragon Age is not for you. Try point and click adventures. These don't have the game features you dislike and some even have great stories, characters and graphics.

[The Interloper]

I didn't mind ME 2s methods much, but this is Dragon age. I need some sort of inventory management.

Modifié par The Interloper, 27 août 2010 - 03:02 .

[SaberBloodwork]

For me there are some things that I'd rather have never changed in Dragon Age. First of them being the inventory system. I found the lack of diversity in ME armours quite sad, even more so the fact that there was no toggle helmet in ME2 for some of them..



Also, I like those quests with items related to them. Some are minor and may seem unimportant but actualy show us a different side of the world we play in,



That being said, I like some of the ME elements that are to be used in DA2. The dialogue wheel isn't all that bad (I sure hope that in DA2 we'll at least know what the character is going to do or say unlike in ME), the voiced protagonist I can live with, the cinematic aspects I'll more than likely love and the lack of some customization aspects I'm a little worried about.



All in all, I understand that some people love the changes and would like more while others would rather have DA the way it was in Origins. BW is sure in a tough spot to try to make both happy

[Tirigon]

wwwwowwww wrote...

Not braindead nor am I elitists. People can choose whatever they like, I have my preferences, but that's far from elitist. Fact is there is no reason to change one thing to mirror another, there is room in the market for both. Wait, I think I've said that already, twice now even.

You maybe not. The person I responded to originally definitely.

[In Exile]

zahra wrote..
Urm, you only had to get blood from genlocks "Once". And would you really be okay with wearing the same armor throughout the whole game just in slightly different color variations/accessories? Because this is what ME 2 did and I found that factor to be especially sucky.

With my warrior, after the Mage Tower (10 hrs in) I had enough gold to buy the Knight Commander Armour in Orzammar. Wore it the entire game, inc,uding throughout Awakening. That's 60 hours int eh same armour with just slightly different accessories. Wore the Helm of Honleath for the entire game. 

With my mage, I wore the robes you find in the Circle tower before the sloth demon the entire game. Alistair wore the Grey Warden Commander armour for most of the game. Morrigan wore the same robes the entire game, just swapped for a better but indentical version after Flemmeth.

Sten wore blood dragon armour from level 11 at Lothering.

So in a nutshell, yeah, in Dragon Age I never needed to swap my armour because of how overpowered it was.

[Jamie9]

fanman72 wrote...

 Let's be honest here - a lot of elements from  traditional RPGs are really unncessary and don't add to the overall experience of playing a video game.  The strengths of many RPGs - storyline, characters, etc. is something I don't think bioware will be skimping out on anytime soon.  Now don't get me wrong, the gameplay in DA was fun but was overall it wasn't the greatest gameplay experience in the world.  The storyline, mood/atmosphere, and memorable characters more than made up for what I perceived to be technical gameplay shortcomings.  Mass Effect 1 had similar issues, most of which were fixed in ME2.  No I dont' care about dealing with a clunky inventory as long as i can alter my character's equipment's appearance.  No I don't care about dealing with inventory weight.  No I don't care about leveling up.  No I don't care about spending half of my time travelling to different places back and forth for "fetch this" type quests (what I call filler time).  

Keep the characters, story, plot, visuals, graphics, choices etc interesting.  Those are the only elements i really care from an RPG.  Then for all I care it can play like Dragon Effect 2.


*Is a typical Bioware forum posting nerd*



*Enjoys looting a new water bottle from a dead hurlock so that he can sell it for 3 copper*



*Spends 15 minutes getting to appropiate vendor because you're running out of inventory space*





My point is that there are a significant amount of elements among traditional RPGs which are flat out annoying and detract from the gameplay experience, rather than add to it

No you're not. I like Mass Effect 2 more than the first one. I did miss some of the RPG elements. The thing is though, the combat is probably the most time-consuming gameplay element of the whole game, there is more combat than dialogue so the combat being improved to such an extent was good. We still had amazing dialogue choices, better than the original in my opinion.

I don't come to BioWare for the amazing RPG elements, I come for the branching dialogue trees and amazing story.

[Kilshrek]

I swapped my armour about a fair bit, until I got the uber sets. Rogues don't have uber armour sets afaik. Mages rarely need to swap their kit. Better staff maybe.



But that is not the same as having 3 diff torso pieces that roughly do the same thing.



"Dragon Effect" (washes mouth with bleach) has no place in most gamer's minds I'm sure. A hybrid would be terrible, but there is no harm in taking some things that work in one game and putting them in another. DA 2 will not feature a stripped inventory like ME 2 surely, since ME 2 didn't have an inventory system to speak of. I can live with less loot, but with loot generally being a bit more powerful.

[Nighteye2]

fanman72 wrote...
 Let's be honest here - a lot of elements from  traditional RPGs are really unncessary and don't add to the overall experience of playing a video game. 

In your opinion. Those elements add a lot to the experience for me and, I'm sure, many others beside me. I like games far more than mere interactive novels, which seems to be more or less what you're proposing....

[In Exile]

Vandrayke wrote...

I agree on some points but not on others.

Character progression is important. ME2 oversimplified this. End of mission XP rewards feel so cheap and tacky. I'm fine with punting normal leveling systems, but you have to replace them with story-related skill development or something like that. Like meet biotic character X, learn skill X from them. Meet scientist Y, have scientist Y give you better shield tech. Or something. Not "End of level have some XP and pick skills!"

To be fair, it is end of quest, here is some XP (you get XP for any quest you solve, but minor quests give less XP) and while the mission completed screen is very tacky, in principle it is the same system as say Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines.

Also, it must feel like you customize your character significantly by the end of the game.  With each class, it only felt like a couple of skills were worth picking, so at the end of the game, it didn't feel like I really chose anything.  Just that I picked the obvious skills.  

But you do customize your character significantly, beucase of how different each class plays. I suppose some people want within class variation, but let's be fair - the between class variation is significant. An adept plays nothing like an infiltrator.

[Homebound]

I think there should be a DLC that links Mass effect with Dragon Age. Maybe Shepard finds the planet where Dragon Age is happening. And the Reapers are actually the Old Gods.

[Vandrayke]

shootist70 wrote...

Everytime I see 'dumbing down' mentioned I look at the post and laugh at the irony.

rofl I couldn't agree more.  Some of the people making those posts are only marginally literate and they act like playing an old school CRPG requires an actuarial science degree or something.  

[In Exile]

Vandrayke wrote...
rofl I couldn't agree more.  Some of the people making those posts are only marginally literate and they act like playing an old school CRPG requires an actuarial science degree or something.  

You just don't know the joys of having to integrate by parts to open chests.