56 réponses à ce sujet

[nicethugbert]

How about placing it in a frontier area? In a fort? But that only works up to a certain level. Remember, most life forms are commoners. Once the opponents get to a high enough level, it's difficult to imagine the fort surviving without the PCs. Which then makes the fort sort of irrelevant. Also, if the PCs are high level then why isn't it their fort?  And why are high level monster interested in the area anyway?

Maybe the PCs can build their own "liar" in the area and expand their adventures into the underdark or planes for higher levels?

Modifié par nicethugbert, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:49 .

[rjshae]

How about a fortified manor house similar to this? Needs a stables though.

One possible background story: It may have once been the residence of a landed knight, and a small village grew up around it. During an orc invasion, the village was destroyed and the manor house sacked. After the invasion was defeated, the house lay in ruin for a time. But civilization expanded, a basic road was built through the wilderness and a new owner moved in to support the passing traffic to a nearby mine and village. The owner's family have fixed it up and turned it into a combination of an inn and a rest house for road patrols. Still, the place seems to attract a lot of trouble-makers who prefer the fringes of civilization, and there is the occasional orc incursion.

As long as it's somewhat generic, I think you can design the site for a number of roles. Otherwise I suspect it may become less useful for its intended role as a stop-over between ventures.

Modifié par rjshae, 02 septembre 2010 - 09:12 .

[Gilradthegreat]

One thing to remember when considering over-arching elements, is that the whole campaign should still allow for the player to enter in from any point along the story and not feel as though they missed anything... i.e. after finishing a mod that goes to 16, a player should be able to take their character through the 16-20th level adventures and not have to wonder about everything that's going on or important characters that were introduced in earlier mods.



So in that sense, I think the setting being a manor/keep that is being rebuilt would be a great idea, so long as there's nothing central to the story like a main antagonist. The manor looks like a wreck when you're in your early levels, and it looks defendable in your later levels.



In fact, its throwing away some license of creativity, but another option could simply be to have the campaign run parallel to the War of Shadows from the original NWN2 campaign, and the base could be the under-rennovation Crossroads Keep. Yeah, its already been done to death from TWO official campaigns, just a thought.



Though one concern I have with anchoring the plot to one location is it gives less freedom to the modders (and as I have made clear plenty of times, one of the major goals here is to make a modding environment that is as easy on the modders as possible). I like the idea of the hub being a nondescript location, so that when the player loads up the next mod, the modder can explain that your travels have taken you to Amn, for example, or Waterdeep, without the player feeling like the hero has no business travelling across half the realms for just one job.





Basically, one of the major goals of this project would be satisfied if the next time a modder is between projects and decides to cool down with a smaller mod, he decides to contribute to this campaign since there's not a whole lot he would have to work around to get it to fit.

[Shaughn78]

There should be no over all plot line. Each module should be an indidual plot. I could several modules being related but not requiring the completion of the previous ones to finish or make sense.



For a hub area I think af something like a heroes guild from the "Quest for Glory" games or something like that. Somewhere where people can come and ask for help. This will allow for a description of the wuest and overall goal of the module. It explains why you are going to that area, requires no overall plot line and explains why each module is different. As for setting if a builder wanted to make the make the hub area in Sigil, the individual mods could be anywhere and offers complete freedom to the builders. Get the quest open the door and jump to any-land on any plane.

[kamalpoe]

What Shaughn78 said, you don't want an overarching plot, as that encumbers builders. Neverwinter Academy would make a fine hub, as they dispatch their heroes all over the place. At high levels you could be an instructor for the academy if you wanted to have a non-combat module.

[nicethugbert]

That fortified manor house is doomed. There are exposed support columns at each end. Concentrate fire there and the walls open up.



Perhaps at a certain level the adventures should be planar; lower level quests local, higher level quests planar. The portals could be highly fortified by magic and underground.

[rjshae]

nicethugbert wrote...

That fortified manor house is doomed. There are exposed support columns at each end. Concentrate fire there and the walls open up.

I think it's only intended to defend against small groups; not beseiging armies. But, if all you want is a starting point for various side trek adventures, why do you need a fortress? I think that gaining the stronghold should be left to the specific campaign; a fortified manor house (or a mages guild or whatever) should only serve as a dispatch point for single level quests, plus possible hook points for the designer to tie it into their campaign.

Actually that fortified manor reminds me a little of the Moathouse in ToEE. It must have been a useful design back in medieval England; I suppose against raiding Vikings, neighbors or whomever.

Modifié par rjshae, 03 septembre 2010 - 05:30 .

[nicethugbert]

Those are wooden columns. Wood catches fire. Vikings know how to start a fire and orcs are worse.

Modifié par nicethugbert, 03 septembre 2010 - 05:43 .

[rjshae]

nicethugbert wrote...

Those are wooden columns. Wood catches fire. Vikings know how to start a fire and orcs are worse.

Are we talking about the same thing? The google image is just a line drawing. Presumably a fortified manor house would have a stone perimeter.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter where you house it. We could just as easily just have an interior area where all the interactions take place, then have the module builder plug it into their campaign in an appropriate building. (Or have 2-3 building types to choose from.) If they want to put it in an Inn within their fort, as per the stronghold in the OC, then they could so so.

[nicethugbert]

Yeah, a line drawing that clearly shows columns exposed to attack.

[LeeMer47]

First, we need to know the location. If you are using the overland or world maps it has a finite area that must be determined beforehand. Is it FR, Krynn, Eberron, Greyhawk or a generic world? I vote for FR because there are 20+ free references available for people to use. I also vote for a world map as you can make only the buttons you want to go off. You can set dungeons for characters 1 level below and 1 level higher than made for, and only those show up.

Actually, I really vote for portals. The WOTC site has about 100 perilous portals and perilous gateways. This allows each person to do what ever they want without being constrained by an overland or world map. If you need an arching story you can have them elven song portals. You found the key to one and at each module you must figure out how to open the next one before you can leave. Its up to the modder to decide what it is and how you get it.

On the other hand, I was making a series of small individual FR modules for 1 or 2 levels myself. I got Glowing in Glaun Bog(8th or 14th-18th) and Blight on the Barrow(12th-17th single) done for NWN1, and Stolen in Spiderhaunt and The Retracting Ice almost done. Also partials on Treasure of the Winter King and Under the Umber Marsh. Not that hard to convert to NWN2. I actually wrote long-winded conversations in these.

Of course, you can also set it in Dungeon Hack, (which I think is Winterkeep), with each person doing a single level. Dungeon interiors are the easiest mods to make.

EDIT: I also vote for single-player. Multi-player could change from day to day from 3 to 5 to 4 to 2, etc. Its also very hard to keep experience in control with an unknown number of players. One player makes it much simpler.

Modifié par LeeMer47, 04 septembre 2010 - 12:29 .

[nicethugbert]

I really like SoZ party and convo.

[LeeMer47]

nicethugbert wrote...

I really like SoZ party and convo.

As a player, so do I. Which is why I've put it in every module I've made since SOZ came out. For a series made by 20 separate people it would make things almost impossible.

[PJ156]

LeeMer47 wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

I really like SoZ party and convo.

As a player, so do I. Which is why I've put it in every module I've made since SOZ came out. For a series made by 20 separate people it would make things almost impossible.

That is my view also, but it does raise the question of companions. Should these be availbale only within the mods or at the hub. If the latter were the case a selection could be in permanent residence but these would likely be mute within the mods?

I am not so much in favour of a dungeon level type approach as it is limiting (and sometimes tedious in my experience - if not done well).

There are many fine ideas for hubs in the posts, all may be possible and all may be used if this gets off the ground. A story arc across hubs will likely not work but there could be one that applies to or justifies the hubs existence.

I played a lot of Rune Quest and one very fine module involve a Duke being granted lands on the outskirts of the kingdom (wild country). The Duke hires adventureres and you start from there. There is a lot of scope within this for modules from the clearing of the local cave system to forming alliances/building relationships with the local inhabitants etc. Damn it's so fine come to think of it I might do it anyway.

PJ

[Shaughn78]

No to companions. With this type of game there is no way to create dynamic companions that will intereact with the player across all the mods.

This should utilize the SOZ party creation or multiplayer to have a party.

Henchmen are a possibility, if they are mod specific and add to the plot or story, but need to be removed when mod is complete.

[M. Rieder]

I have been following the ideas for the last few days and will throw in my 2 cents, for what it's worth.

I think that limiting the modules to dungeon type arease would be well... limiting. It may be helpful for variety to allow the indiviual modders to decide the types of areas.

I think that it is a good idea to limit companions/henchmen to a single module and remove them when it is complete. This will keep it clean. The SOZ companion creation also could be useful. Again, these are details which could be left up to the indiviual modder.

Regarding location, I vote FR. For reasons previously cited.

I like the idea of a central hub, fortified manor house or fireproof asbestos lair, whatever it may be. If it can be easily created, I lean toward an overland map with different areas that become available with different quests. Here, I am speaking from the player's perspective since I have never worked with an overland map as a builder, so I am not familiar with the limitations which are peculiar to it.

This discussion seems to be heading in a productive direction. The trick will be to develop a framework that give sufficient direction to builders without stifling creativity.

This is a very interesting idea and if it is executed will be fun for both builders and players.


Here are two ideas for general consideration:
Using a town or city as a central hub: This will provide a wider variety of locations for quests to start. One challenge I forsee with this approach is orchestrating what content from each of the modules is placed in the town. Perhaps a modder could volunteer to create the hub and manage it.

Modifié par M. Rieder, 09 septembre 2010 - 04:33 .

[Gilradthegreat]

My original idea was to have the burden of exposition placed on the modder, with the hub being as generic and simple as possible.



For example, simply leaving the tavern (choosing to "look for the next job") would automatically load up the next module in the project, followed by a brief expository scene right before you reach your destination, which explains what you are about to reach and why. This should be sufficient for a very long time, as I would really prefer nobody double up on quest slots until the full 1-20 is complete, which should take a while at any rate.

[rjshae]

nicethugbert wrote...

Yeah, a line drawing that clearly shows columns exposed to attack.

Regardless, the design is pretty typical for a fortified manor home. See, for example, Gwydir Castle, Woodsford Castle and plenty of other examples. Despite their perceived design flaw versus heavy siege equipment, they must have been sufficiently defensible to serve a significant role.

Modifié par rjshae, 07 septembre 2010 - 03:28 .

[rjshae]

Gilradthegreat wrote...

For example, simply leaving the tavern (choosing to "look for the next job") would automatically load up the next module in the project, followed by a brief expository scene right before you reach your destination, which explains what you are about to reach and why. This should be sufficient for a very long time, as I would really prefer nobody double up on quest slots until the full 1-20 is complete, which should take a while at any rate.

Yes I agree. The routing can be performed in a generic manner as you suggest, and the module builder should then be able to easily modify the tavern destinations to use a world map or an overhead map. We can provide generic conversations for the tavern workers, which the module maker can then tweak to serve their purposes. It perhaps just needs a set of colorful characters to fill in the scene, which could also be modified and randomized to your heart's content.

[M. Rieder]

rjshae wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Yeah, a line drawing that clearly shows columns exposed to attack.

Regardless, the design is pretty typical for a fortified manor home. See, for example, Gwydir Castle, Woodsford Castle and plenty of other examples. Despite their perceived design flaw versus heavy siege equipment, they must have been sufficiently defensible to serve a significant role.

Those plastic trash bins outside Woodsford Castle would be very vulnerable to fire.

[nicethugbert]

rjshae wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Yeah, a line drawing that clearly shows columns exposed to attack.

Regardless, the design is pretty typical for a fortified manor home. See, for example, Gwydir Castle, Woodsford Castle and plenty of other examples. Despite their perceived design flaw versus heavy siege equipment, they must have been sufficiently defensible to serve a significant role.

Those two examples don't have the design flaw I mentioned.  And they seem more like the country house variety of  Manor House, " country houses which belonged to gentry families, as well as to grand stately homes, particularly as a technical term for minor late medieval fortified country houses intended more for show than for defence."

[LeeMer47]

I forgot to mention the Myth Drannor possibility. When I was converting Halls of the Beast Tamers, it had several portals to places where beasts were collected. And maybe to other elven buildings. What if there was a hall of mirrors which portalled anywhere a modder wanted? You'd have your central location and a way to put mods anywhere.

[rjshae]

nicethugbert wrote...

Those two examples don't have the design flaw I mentioned.  And they seem more like the country house variety of  Manor House, " country houses which belonged to gentry families, as well as to grand stately homes, particularly as a technical term for minor late medieval fortified country houses intended more for show than for defence."

Okay. Why don't you go build your impregnable fortress then and get back to us when you're done? Thank you.

[nicethugbert]

rjshae wrote...

nicethugbert wrote...

Those two examples don't have the design flaw I mentioned.  And they seem more like the country house variety of  Manor House, " country houses which belonged to gentry families, as well as to grand stately homes, particularly as a technical term for minor late medieval fortified country houses intended more for show than for defence."

Okay. Why don't you go build your impregnable fortress then and get back to us when you're done? Thank you.

I can't draw.  But artists are impressionable and I will not have you corrupting their work with fanciful notions!

[rjshae]

If you want an oddball location that would work with any module...

I've had this idea for a extra-dimensional setting that I've been carrying around in my head for a while. It starts when the party chances upon a ruby red ring with an unusual design. A lore check will reveal that this is a modified "ring of recall" that will take the party to a pre-programmed place. Usually this is a place of safety... but not always. In this case, the location is an extra-dimensional haven. A clue to this could be some runic writing on the inside of the ring.

The red ring has a limited form of intelligence in that it can examine the party for the amount of gold, gems and jewelry they carry. If the treasure reaches a critical threshold, proportionate to the level of the PC, then the ring becomes "active". Otherwise it provides some minor magical power; just enough to be worth hanging on to (i.e. not to sell) before the main power kicks in. Anyway, this ring is the invention of twin elven sorceresses that long ago set up a small villa on a mountain-top in an extradimensional locale. It is kind of a "restaurant at the edge of the multiverse" setting, but it serves primarily as a place for the exchange of powerful magical items. At the core is an auction chamber where visitors may bid on individual items for sale. Some come in person, while others bid via magical mirrors or crystal balls. In general these are unique, high-priced items.

The haven setting is based on the grassy, sylvan top of a great mountain, or a floating rock, just above an endless expanse of clouds. (Nobody has ever reach ground level from this height, so it is unknown whether this is a flying rock or not.) Within the haven's underground areas are stores for several outsider-type merchants who will sell stock magical items, a great library of knowledge (with rewards for finding new works), an Inn for the visitors, safe storage for magic items (kind of like the vaults in the first Harry Potter film, except there are some potent guardians), and various other features. (Perhaps a wizard's club?) There are also numerous portals in the underground ways leading to various other locales in the multi-verse. The sisters live in a mansion at the top of a rise, surrounded by a beautiful garden.

The players who reach here could potentially gain new quests at the Inn, which would require them to transit through one of the portals. These can be dialed up to any location, based on some arcane formula. (Each visitor knows the code for their locale.)

Modifié par rjshae, 08 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .