106 réponses à ce sujet

[MajesticJazz]

Okay, let me explain.

Bioware claims that this is a trilogy, but the way it is going, it seems to be just 3 seperate games that somehow someway tie to each other, but not in a concrete way.


First:

Look at the Lord of the Rings and Star Wars trilogies (Prequel and Original) for example. These are examples of how a trilogy should be handled. In LOTR, throughout all 3 movies/novels you see a consistancey of all of the new characters. Tolkien didn't introduce one enemy in Fellowship of the Ring and then introduced a whole new enemy in Two Towers, making the FotR enemy irrelevant. Same with Star Wars. Throughout the original trilogy we are fighting the same enemies in Storm Troopers/Empire/Darth Vader. In Mass Effect, we fight the Geth but in ME2 we faught the Collectors.

Second:

Han Solo, Leia, Chewie, R2D2, CP30 etc.... all share the same amount of screen time in all 3 movies. Lucas introduced these side characters and developed them all throughout the trilogy. Same thing with the characters in LOTR. They weren't introduced in the first movie but then saw a reduced amount of time in the second like Bioware did with Mass Effect's Kaiden/Ashely/Udina/Hackett/Anderson by giving them lesser roles and playing up the roles of newer characters that we have to get to know.
 
Third:

With Shepard in ME2, I didn't get that sense of progression/maturity as I felt like he was starting at level 1 all over again (literally). I know for gaming development purposes they had to bring him back to level 1, but atleast give the character some type of aura that his is a bigger, better, and badder (word?) version of what he/she was in ME1. When Luke destroyed the Death Star in A New Hope, you could see how much mature and confident he was in Empire Strikes Back. Yes, he was still young and brash, but he was less niave than the A New Hope counterpart, this was seen again in Return of the Jedi as he developed more from Empire Strikes Back. With Shepard....well....he destroyed Soverign and saved the Citade in ME1 but there was no feeling of accomplishment in ME2.  He/she just seemed like that same Shepard we saw at the beginning of ME1 where he/she was about to go on a shakedown run on Eden Prime.


Personally, I believe the Collectors should have been introduced as the enemy in Mass Effect 1. Make it to where Eden Prime was attacked by the Collector's with the aid of Saren/Soverign. The rest of the game would have went the same but on places like Noveria/Feros/Virmire/Illos, replace the Geth with the Collectors. Then with ME2, we would get to continue the fight against the Collectors as this time, they are specifically going after human colonies in the terminus (just like how the current Me2 story goes). This would have made the whole revelation that the Collectors=Protheans more impactful.

As for your Squad, well, in ME1 there should have not been an option to kill Wrex, Ashley/Kaiden on Virmire. You recruit Ashely, Kaiden, Liara, Wrex, Garrus, and Tali in ME1 and they ALL return as squadmates in ME2. If Bioware wanted to introduced 4-6 more squadmates in ME2, then they could have done that, just like how Lucas introduced Lando in Empire Strikes Back. Again, there should be no option to kill off any squad member in ME2....new or old as Bioware should have saved the whole sacrificing squadmates concept for the ME3 ending, including Shepard's death.

By doing that, ME1/ME2/ME3 would feel more connected like a trilogy should and not as 3 seperate stories but ONE WHOLE connecting story that can be seperated into 3 parts.

[KainrycKarr]

CH already said they were meant to be as "standalone" as possible. Which is lame, and will end up hurting the franchise more than helping it, but that's where it is. Hopefully ME3 won't be "too" standalone. I won't buy it if it's an entirely new squad again.

[epoch_]

KainrycKarr wrote...

 I won't buy it if it's an entirely new squad again.

You should probably find a new game to obsess over then.

[jklinders]

I just want to point out that lord of the Rings was written as one book. The Publisher broke it up into three volumes. The structure that Tolkien wrote it in made it easy to break into parts.



As for the problems with making the games standalone. It's the nature of the beast. The beast of course being money. Book trilogies are not as concerned over being accessible as a game. This is in part due to the ability to cram exposition into a large book without annoying people. Not so easy in a game.



Lots of money gets poured into making these games. The last thing they want is for some idio-er I mean a new player to the franchise to start at game 3, go huh?, put it down and trash mouth it to their friends. Better to set it up in a way to make him want to go back and get titles 1 and 2.



I just don't see how all the loose ends from Chapters 1 and 2 are going to be ironed flat in only one more installment. There just was not nearly enough plot progression to find a weakness in the reapers to exploit. That is the element of trilogy they screwed up. Left too much work to do in the final act. Oh well.

[Mister Mida]

I don't remember Hudson saying that they would be stand alone, but it's the way they're going for now. They also said that DLC would tell the story between ME and ME2, but they didn't act on it. It sucks, but there you have it. If they actually did make it like Star Wars or The Lord of the Rings, Bioware could've set an example for other developers. But they didn't. They chose to make it all idiot-proof for the sake of money.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 27 août 2010 - 05:35 .

[AntiChri5]

Yeah Hudson said they were meant to be standalone.



**** Hudson.

[smudboy]

Pretty much. Although I wouldn't call it a trilogy issue, but more of a continuity, and progression issue.

[PsyrenY]

On the plus side, the fact that they are more standalone means our PS3 brethren won't be TOO disadvantaged.

[MaaZeus]

Optimystic_X wrote...

On the plus side, the fact that they are more standalone means our PS3 brethren won't be TOO disadvantaged.

[elitistprick] You you say that it is a good thing... [/elitistprick]

[Zulu_DFA]

It's a trilogy of separate games.

And the fact that the "2" doesn't have much of continuity to ME1 and isn't going to have much of it with the "3" does not necessarily mean that the "3" won't have continuity to ME1. Just kiss the ME2 squad good bye and have faith in BioWare, people!

AntiChri5 wrote...

**** Hudson.

Having fun?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 27 août 2010 - 06:06 .

[Mister Mida]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

AntiChri5 wrote...

**** Hudson.

Having fun?

LMAO

[CroGamer002]

[ShadoX_LV]

Your not the only one who feels like that.. and yeah, the level 1 thing was kinda weird.. I was expecting to play as my level 45 character and not as level 2 or 3 for importing it.. :|

[Marzillius]

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

[Mister Mida]

Marzillius wrote...

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

It's funny you say that coz today I read an article where Ray says that games are indeed art. But like you said, if it is, then ME is a three part story instead of the same story told three times.

Modifié par Mister Mida, 27 août 2010 - 08:49 .

[KainrycKarr]

epoch_ wrote...

KainrycKarr wrote...

 I won't buy it if it's an entirely new squad again.

You should probably find a new game to obsess over then.

You spend a lot of time on here for someone who always such negative things to say about the game/franchise.

Just sayin'.

[PsyrenY]

Marzillius wrote...

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

The music industry has been doing that for years, yet nobody disputes music as an artform...

[Randy1012]

jklinders wrote...

Lots of money gets poured into making these games. The last thing they want is for some idio-er I mean a new player to the franchise to start at game 3, go huh?, put it down and trash mouth it to their friends. Better to set it up in a way to make him want to go back and get titles 1 and 2.

Any moron who jumps into a series where it's clearly marked "3" with a big red and white number deserves to be confused.

[CroGamer002]

Marzillius wrote...

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

Most stupid comment I ever read in my life!

[PsyrenY]

Randy1083 wrote...

Any moron who jumps into a series where it's clearly marked "3" with a big red and white number deserves to be confused.

That's a bit harsh. Plenty of sequels have convinced a slew of newcomers to try the original, including Mass Effect 2 itself.

I myself was introduced to the Soul Calibur series through Soul Calibur 2. I knew nothing about the story, but the gameplay itself was good enough that I picked up every title since.

[Randy1012]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Randy1083 wrote...

Any moron who jumps into a series where it's clearly marked "3" with a big red and white number deserves to be confused.

That's a bit harsh. Plenty of sequels have convinced a slew of newcomers to try the original, including Mass Effect 2 itself.

I myself was introduced to the Soul Calibur series through Soul Calibur 2. I knew nothing about the story, but the gameplay itself was good enough that I picked up every title since.

It's a little harsh, yeah, but Mass Effect isn't like, say, Final Fantasy, where you can jump in at any point and not be confused, because pretty much every title is a complete standalone set in its own world.

[Marzillius]

Mesina2 wrote...

Marzillius wrote...

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

Most stupid comment I ever read in my life!

How was is stupid? It was sort of an addition to the on-going debate whether video games are art or not.

[PsyrenY]

Randy1083 wrote...

It's a little harsh, yeah, but Mass Effect isn't like, say, Final Fantasy, where you can jump in at any point and not be confused, because pretty much every title is a complete standalone set in its own world.

Thing is, a little confusion actually enhanced ME2. I remember back on the Lazarus Station, when Jacob tells you he's with Cerberus. One of the responses was "Who?" I thought that was an excellent touch, that if I never played ME1 there were options I could take to make Shepard as confused as I was.

Now, you probably won't be rebuilt from the ground up again in ME3, but I'm willing to bet there'll still be "huh?" moments like that to humor the newcomers.

Modifié par Optimystic_X, 27 août 2010 - 08:29 .

[AresXX7]

don't ask why, but I'm still hoping what I read once, about ME2's "weak" amount of import choices carrying over, was because it was the middle of a 3 part series, and that our choices are to have a greater impact in the final game, ME3. since it is supposed to tie all 3 together.


"The player's choices in the previous games are expected to have a much more significant impact on the plot than the choices in Mass Effect had on Mass Effect 2. As Mass Effect 3 is the end of the planned trilogy, the developers are not constrained by the necessity of allowing the story to diverge, yet also continue into the next chapter. This will result in a story that diverges into wildly different conclusions based on the player's actions in the first two chapters."

only time will tell, if it remains true

[CroGamer002]

Marzillius wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Marzillius wrote...

These are the things that prove that video games are not art. If Bioware puts money before what could have been a trilogy of games, then they are not artists like some say they are.

Most stupid comment I ever read in my life!

How was is stupid? It was sort of an addition to the on-going debate whether video games are art or not.

That debate is stupid also.
Games are art.