17 réponses à ce sujet

[BelowTheBelt]

It is my understanding that a PC drinking a potion in combat should provode an attack of opportunity, but I'm not seeing it.  Where does the engine handle this so I can see if it's working?

Thanks!

[Shadooow]

as pope_leo explained in other topic it depends on game difficulty and you can change the behaviour in the diffsettings.2da 1= ON 0=OFF

[Genisys]

Man, I got a serious gripe against that setting, provoking an opportunity of attack on a PC for drinking a potion when they are dying real fast to 4 monsters beating on them, only SEALS THE COFFIN.. (Certain Death) 

:DLame!

Modifié par Genisys, 28 août 2010 - 02:50 .

[ehye_khandee]

not lame, realistic. Stop and try to chug your five hour energy drink in the midst of a fight and see if you don't get your face smashed in.



lol.

[B_Harrison]

ehye_khandee wrote...

not lame, realistic. Stop and try to chug your five hour energy drink in the midst of a fight and see if you don't get your face smashed in.

lol.

Ahaha. This. Though in the real world, drinking "potions" tends to be the cause of rather than the solution to fights; and puts the would-be warrior at a distinct disadvantage.

Just a pity we can't make healing kit uses trigger AoOs, as well, which logically would be even less convenient than drinking in combat (applying bandages and herbs?).

[Genisys]

B_Harrison wrote...

ehye_khandee wrote...

not lame, realistic. Stop and try to chug your five hour energy drink in the midst of a fight and see if you don't get your face smashed in.

lol.

Ahaha. This. Though in the real world, drinking "potions" tends to be the cause of rather than the solution to fights; and puts the would-be warrior at a distinct disadvantage.

Just a pity we can't make healing kit uses trigger AoOs, as well, which logically would be even less convenient than drinking in combat (applying bandages and herbs?).

All of this thinking is slighted towards RP Module Designer's philosophy, where realism takes precedence over Fantasy...

D&D and NWN is and should always remain a fantasy game...  RP Module Designers tend to love the realism part more than the fantasy part, and that's not a blow against anyone, it's critique that everyone would do well to heed...

For the game stops being fantasy, when...

A system has been implimented that forces a constant reality check...  e.g., you need food & water to survive, you must have certain items in order to rest, rest takes a long time, and rest is severly restricted...  These are only a few examples of how some builders or scripters force reality into a fantasy game, which in some people's opinion is why many servers remain empty...  Realism & Fantasy are completely opposite, truly...

Players like fantasy, things that are enchanting are cool, they don't like reality, that's boring and rather unimaginative..

I personally will always hold the fantasy flag up in light of the Reality Argument... always...

[B_Harrison]

Well, that's subjective. I didn't suggest that Ehye's preference was any more valid for the purposes of a fantasy RPG than your preference, I only agreed that labeling one aspect of his preference "lame" is not particularly valid. He didn't say realism was better, just that triggering AoOs for drinking potions is more realistic than not.

[Genisys]

Ben, I wasn't making the statement of Lame towards him, but towards the AOO of drinking a potion, it can be real lame to die to this unfortunate reality... I stress realism should be avoided in order to allow the continuance of Fantasy RP / Gaming... Dying isn't cool, at least not for most of the players I've met..

[B_Harrison]

Oh, sure - my post wasn't intended to be a rebuke, and I didn't think yours was hostile (or even inappropriate) at all. But the word "should" really doesn't apply, to my mind; it's just a matter of what builders (and players) happen to prefer, though you could make an argument for an objective universal law of RPG design, if you were so inclined...

Personally, I guess my preference lies somewhere between the extremes; I'm not fond of food/drink systems (or anything that hinders too much the fantastical/aesthetic), but nor do I like fundamental physics/logical reactions to go out the window just because it's fantasy.

Anyway, I guess the OP's question was answered, so I should stop rambling at you.

Modifié par B_Harrison, 29 août 2010 - 12:07 .

[Shadooow]

Genisys wrote...

Ben, I wasn't making the statement of Lame towards him, but towards the AOO of drinking a potion, it can be real lame to die to this unfortunate reality... I stress realism should be avoided in order to allow the continuance of Fantasy RP / Gaming... Dying isn't cool, at least not for most of the players I've met..

Yes it really may be lame, especially of you fighting agains three opponents - why the hell you wont flee?

I'm for AOO while otherwise sharing your feeling about roleplaying modules that focuses too much to reality. Anyway Genisys, I think you should limit posts with your personal preferences, now we know exactly what type of module you like.

Uber items, uber spell/class changes, no AOO from potions, no roleplaying restrictions, legendary levels, no rest restriction, and soloable.

Which is nice, but feels more like a spam.

[leo_x]

i'd say aoo can be kind of lame... /if/ you have full critical hits... if you nerf, or remove, crits, then i think it's a mistake to not have aoo on potion use.

[Shia Luck]

ShaDoOoW wrote...

Genisys wrote...

... Dying isn't cool, at least not for most of the players I've met..

Yes it really may be lame, especially of you fighting agains three opponents - why the hell you wont flee?

I'm for AOO while otherwise sharing your feeling about roleplaying modules that focuses too much to reality. Anyway Genisys, I think you should limit posts with your personal preferences, now we know exactly what type of module you like.

Uber items, uber spell/class changes, no AOO from potions, no roleplaying restrictions, legendary levels, no rest restriction, and soloable.

Which is nice, but feels more like a spam.

Fantasy (in this context) does not mean you can act how you want, do what you want and still survive. If there are no consequences to your actions then yes it is a fantasy with no basis in reality, but this fantasy is different to the the DnD/nwn/LoTR meaning of fantasy. One is suspension of realism for fun and learning .... one is delusional for ego stroking.

I dont want to carry a bedroll, forage for food or have someone else decide how many hours must pass before i can rest again. If i am in a safe place i should be able to lie in bed all day if i want. And this is as much reality talking as anything else, no?

Having gear so uber you cannot be hurt, and unlimited heal potions and complaining that you get an AoO for drinking them is ..  the delusional type of fantasy imho.

Games only make sense when there is some chance of losing. By risking losing we learn and grow as people and as characters.

Or you can unlimited respawn without penalty and turn off the AoO switch,,, or watch internet porn... that way you can stroke your ego with no consequences, no? 

[Genisys]

Granted, some realism is necessary, and yes AOO on Potions has some merit & usage, but I'd say it's not appropriate in some cases, especially where action is high, now for an RP module, that's generally not the case, for action takes a major back seat...



I'm not 100% against it, I'm just saying it's kind of lame to die to it... truly...

[C Writer]

I suppose that adds some tactical thought into it. If you risk a potentially lethal AoO from drinking a healing potion, you should drink it before the HP mark where the AoO(s) is likely to be lethal in the first place. But when it comes down to it, it does depend on the difficulty. I can understand why it happens on the harder modes as well as why it doesn't on the easier modes. Besides, you could collect an inordinate amount of healing potions if you tried and continously drinking them to replenish your health to what seemed to be an indefinite amount would be kind of uber in my eyes. But again, it depends on the difficulty to which the game is set.

[Shia Luck]

Genisys wrote...

Granted, some realism is necessary, and yes AOO on Potions has some merit & usage, but I'd say it's not appropriate in some cases, especially where action is high, now for an RP module, that's generally not the case, for action takes a major back seat...

I'm not 100% against it, I'm just saying it's kind of lame to die to it... truly...

I have to disagree 100%. If action is the focus of the module then you do not make it easier, you make it more challenging. If it's an RP focused module then turn of the AoO because it is not relevant whether it is on or not.

Let's think through some options:
1. play a character build with decent defense.
2. play a character build with access to 50% concealment.
3. Play a character build with improved expertise or divine shield and activate them before you drink your healing potion.
4. play a character build with HiPS
5. play a character with darkness
6. drink your healing potion before the very last second.
7. MP with a cleric
8. run away

Now, is the game lame because of this rule or is the player stupid because they keep dying by relying on drinking unlimited potions to get through fights? Making the same mistake again and again does not make the rule lame. If the player keeps dying to AoOs their tactics/build/playstyle/inability to adapt is the problem.

[ffbj]

To G:
So in other words you are fighting a powerful monster and you and yours have that monster down to a few hp's, suddenly it pulls out a full healing potion and drinks it healing up fully since you are not getting any AOO. Now that would really be lame. Sometimes all you have to do is reverse the question, your point of view, and see how you like that.

Imho AOO are not lame in the least, nor is the fact that you got killed driking a potion while surrounded by enemies. Also linking AOO with other things you don't like in a series: rest restrictions, food and water, is a common logical fallacy. Talk to a specific point instead of muddying the issue by adding in things that really have no relevance to the issue.

On a side note I made a potion, Essence of Cure, which gives back 20hp's plus your healing bonus x2, then it does a regenerate, and then a cure disease.  Now if you get hit at any time during the healing process, or move or do other actions, then the process is interupted, since each healing sequence  is treated like a spell.  Takes about 10 seconds to complete the whole series.  You can try it in combat but only have a chance of it working if you have high concentration, or if you are fighting twits that can hardly hit you.  Of course then you would not need such a potion.   If you drink the potion in combat you could conceivably get 3 AOO from each combatant you are engaged with.

Modifié par ffbj, 29 août 2010 - 03:42 .

[ehye_khandee]

Fantasy and Realism are not mutually exclusive, see my post in your related thread for details.



http://social.biowar...02549/1#4608687

[BelowTheBelt]

I see merits of both sides.

I consider these types of effects as part of game balancing, which is something that will be different for every world. AOO's in particular, in my view, are the balanced consequence of an action. Risk vs. reward. In an equation without either, the game potentially can become unbalanced - too much risk or too easy reward.

One thing for sure, though, is that the player in combat begins with a HUGE advantage over creature: he/she is playing against an AI that is nowhere near as capable as they are in use of tactics and strategy.

I think Genisys brings up a good point that it is the gestalt of the world that must be taken into account to make sure that the combination of all the "realistic" systems do not outweigh the fantasy elements.

Now I need to go enable hardcore settings and permadeath...  

Modifié par BelowTheBelt, 31 août 2010 - 12:57 .