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[Slyx]

(While I still feel this is a pointless "argument", I like debating, and as long as this keeps my interest I'll carry on =P)



How bout this: Let's say you hire another real person to sit down at your computer and instruct him/her to roll until he/she gets a certain set of desired attributes. In this case "you" are not the one rolling for attributes, but it's still a "person" doing the work. Would this be considered cheating in this case?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Slyx wrote...
Good example of how using "cheat" codes is something you can mutually agree upon using in THAT particular game.  I don't think that single example covers the entire gamut of cheat codes in all games though.

I already agreed that cheat codes can be used to cheat. But these things are still different from each other.

Why do you think they're called "cheat" codes, and not something like "optional game modifications".  In BG2, to have access to Ctrl-8, you have to manually edit your .ini file (using notepad, or some other third-party program), and then you have to bring up the in-game console, which you're not supposed to normally have access to anyway, and enter "CLUAConsole:EnableCheatKeys()".

Never seen this word in Baldur's Gate II - only in related fan-made texts. It is called "Debug Mode" in the baldur.ini and this activationary code was never necessary for me, and I've played the game on a number of different PCs and with several different installation CDs (and DVDs). But that's not even what I'm trying to get at. Check above. What I'm trying to tell you is that using cheat codes does not equal cheating. They have the same name, yes. So?
Why is any use of the console automatically cheating, even if it is sometimes required to get past game-breaking bugs?
If I'm cheating (= employing trickery and deceit), then tell me, who is the deceived? And what's the deceit?

Slyx wrote...
How bout this: Let's say you hire another real person to sit down at your computer and instruct him/her to roll until he/she gets a certain set of desired attributes. In this case "you" are not the one rolling for attributes, but it's still a "person" doing the work. Would this be considered cheating in this case?

Truth be told, I already thought about using that particular idea as an argument against your idea that a reroller is not cheating while Ctrl 8 is. Does that answer your question?

If you want to play be DnD rules, then you have to ignore the BG2 rolling program anyways, since that thing is always rigged.
If you don't, but have a particular idea of a character you're going to create, then any mention of the worth "attempt" or "luck" are rather shady. Unless you're looking for a completely crazy result like all-18s, your rerolling will bring up something appropiate. In fact it's not even difficult to achieve an all-25s using only functions and buttons that are in the game from the beginning.

Don't understand me wrong. I'm neither trying to completely banish the word cheating from the Baldur's Gate universe, nor have I ever tried to say that rerolling is cheating (that may have been a misunderstanding but I was only trying to compare the two methods). Maybe we started off wrong by arguing which methods are cheating, and which ones are not before doing the all-important "How do we define cheating?"
In my opinion, cheating in Baldur's Gate means either: anything that you cannot explain how it happened to your character.
Examples:
Talk exploit. In-game, there is no way for my character to explain why the enemy didn't defend themselves. Cheat
Shooting AoEs from out of sight (and going invisible before they hit): Why did the enemy not move? Cheat.
Ctrl Y, Ctrl R (except for in very specific cases, for example when a certain boss enemy spawns 25 times at once)
But. Why does my character start with str 15, 19, 16, 17, 15, 18?
He's special. That's why.

Or: Cheating is what breaks the (apparent) rules of the game:
Exporting/Importing, rerolling, meta-gaming, OOC-power-gaming(, reloading), use of SK or the debug mode, etc
But that is my opinion. Feel free to edit or make up your own definition.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 05 septembre 2010 - 04:01 .

[Sparky The Barbarian]

I like my characters to have strengths *and* flaws. Often, I have a particular character in mind before I start the game and will cheat the rolls to meet that need. As a DM I often simplify the process by telling my players to assign the following points however they want: 18 16 14 12 10 8.