131 réponses à ce sujet

[Zan51]

So how come this guy in the body of Deitweiler says this "“Long ago, our people lived in your universe of physical matter. When our sun went supernova, we sought refuge in a virtual world free of needless pain and suffering, climate disasters, disease, and many other ills faced by creatures of solid flesh. Some now feel that remaining in this world after the danger had passed was a mistake. We realize that distress can sometimes provide a catalyst for evolution. We miss the

turmoil of physical existence. As such, I formally petition the Citadel Council for asylum. I no longer wish to return to my former world.”

[Nightwriter]

I think their problem is that they knew it was a virtual reality. We'll never be able to be happy with something we know isn't real. Ever. Which is why in the Matrix they intentionally deceived us into thinking it was real.

[elearon1]

LJScribes wrote...
You guys realize that alot of what is posted on the Daily News is all based on real current events happening in the world?

This is related to the miners who are currently trapped underground and won't be dug out till December...

sheesh...

And how we weren't going to dig them out at all, because theologically and developmentally their situation was a time bomb of political retaliation, but then they offered us advanced technology to dig them out and so now we're in talks?

Yeah - I don't know how anyone missed the connection.

[Lord Jaric]

“After yesterday's stunning request for asylum, Ambassador Sygan has been placed in a secure wing of the Presidium while the Citadel Council deliberates its course of action. Questions have arisen about the legal, ethical, and physical implications of allowing the emissary to remain in Dr. Jordan Detweiler's body while the exobiologist's mind remains in the virtual alien world. When asked what the Council should do if the aliens were to hold Detweiler hostage, Detweiler's daughter, Kyra, said, "Pull the plug. Remind them who's really in control." The Council has already ruled out this option, citing the moral implications of of wiping out the last remnants of an entire civilization.”

[Inquisitor Recon]

The guy who wants to keep the Doctor's body is in no position to bargain. The Council should be making the demands, either they hand over that technology or we start "reformatting" their little universe.

Despite the complaiing it sounds great for them in that virtual world. But they should have thought out the whole power supply issue.

Modifié par ReconTeam, 25 septembre 2010 - 08:18 .

[Skyblade012]

Nightwriter wrote...

I think their problem is that they knew it was a virtual reality. We'll never be able to be happy with something we know isn't real. Ever. Which is why in the Matrix they intentionally deceived us into thinking it was real.

Their problem is that pleasure is not what makes life worthwhile.

You can strap an electrode to the pleasure center of y our brain, and send yourself into a state of almost unlimited physical pleasure until you die.  Will you be happy?  Nope.  There is so much more to life.  Giving up everything for simple, easy gratification is not going to satisfy most people.  You can't feel satisfied, when you don't do anything.

[Eternz]

During all this hasn't the doctor himself been in the virtual world for hundreds of years? considering time passes a lot quicker there and his body seems to have been inhabited for a good few days now

[PARAGON87]

Doesn't the ambassador realize what he's doing? He's basically trapping the consciousness of the body he's using in the virtual civilization so he himself can go free.

Really this scum is stealing Jordan's body!

[Nightwriter]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I think their problem is that they knew it was a virtual reality. We'll never be able to be happy with something we know isn't real. Ever. Which is why in the Matrix they intentionally deceived us into thinking it was real.

Their problem is that pleasure is not what makes life worthwhile.

You can strap an electrode to the pleasure center of y our brain, and send yourself into a state of almost unlimited physical pleasure until you die.  Will you be happy?  Nope.  There is so much more to life.  Giving up everything for simple, easy gratification is not going to satisfy most people.  You can't feel satisfied, when you don't do anything.

Your example addresses physical pleasure only. Of course that won't satisfy us.

A virtual reality that can simulate emotional pleasure as well would indeed satisfy us, as long as we didn't know it was a virtual reality.

[smudboy]

Nightwriter wrote...

Skyblade012 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I think their problem is that they knew it was a virtual reality. We'll never be able to be happy with something we know isn't real. Ever. Which is why in the Matrix they intentionally deceived us into thinking it was real.

Their problem is that pleasure is not what makes life worthwhile.

You can strap an electrode to the pleasure center of y our brain, and send yourself into a state of almost unlimited physical pleasure until you die.  Will you be happy?  Nope.  There is so much more to life.  Giving up everything for simple, easy gratification is not going to satisfy most people.  You can't feel satisfied, when you don't do anything.

Your example addresses physical pleasure only. Of course that won't satisfy us.

A virtual reality that can simulate emotional pleasure as well would indeed satisfy us, as long as we didn't know it was a virtual reality.

If my brain was in a digital control state of orgasm, I don't think the word "satisfied" would cut it.

Also, this philosophy of mind/logic is hilarious.  Please continue.

Also Ghost ships are verry verry baad.

[Nightwriter]

A digitally controlled state of orgasm won't satisfy you permanently. Eventually you'll get tired of the orgasms.

I say this of course after reading odd medical cases and hearing the story of the Woman Who Has 200 Orgasms a Day. The moral of this story is: eventually you get tired.

My point is that Skyblade will look at their virtual world and say it can never be fulfilling because Skyblade knows it's a virtual world. But "real" is totally relative. If you learned this world was a virtual simulation, would everything we've done in it be meaningless? I don't think so. It's all about perception.

[xlavaina]

This could make a very good DLC. The implications about religion, AI, life, death, technology and diplomacy could be very moving if done correctly.

[Skyblade012]

Nightwriter wrote...

A digitally controlled state of orgasm won't satisfy you permanently. Eventually you'll get tired of the orgasms.

I say this of course after reading odd medical cases and hearing the story of the Woman Who Has 200 Orgasms a Day. The moral of this story is: eventually you get tired.

My point is that Skyblade will look at their virtual world and say it can never be fulfilling because Skyblade knows it's a virtual world. But "real" is totally relative. If you learned this world was a virtual simulation, would everything we've done in it be meaningless? I don't think so. It's all about perception.

No, it being a virtual world doesn't matter.  It being a virtual world designed to be perfect does.

If you build a world without pain, without work, without strife...  It's not fulfilling, and never will be.

Hell, Mordin even explains this.  Growth comes about by attempting to overcome limitations.  No limitations, no growth, no fulfillment.  "Utopia" means "nowhere".  When the word was coined by Thomas Moore, it was defined that way for a reason.  A utopia is something that can never be reached.

[Lord Jaric]

“Deadlocked Council deliberations over the fate of Ambassador Sygan ended today with a surprising twist: the Council will grant asylum to the virtual alien emissary in the body of a volunteer, allowing famed MIT exobiologist Dr. Jordan Detweiler to return to his own body. Ambassador Sygan will transfer her consciousness into the volunteer's body, while the volunteer's consciousness is downloaded into a computer. Upon hearing this decision, some 400 individuals from various races have volunteered to "swap places" with aliens inside the virtual world who wish to re-join the physical universe. One asari volunteer regarded this as "an amazing opportunity to explore a new realm of existence," while a salarian volunteer said, "I'm doing it because I'm tired of our universe. It's a mess."”



That last one is funny, considering they might get tried of that universe.

[Skyblade012]

A Salarian lives only 40 years, and would likely be 15 or so at least before he makes such an offer. In the digital world, he could potentially live forever. I think that's going to cause some interesting trade off ideas.

[Inquisitor Recon]

Sounds like this species is just a bunch of whiners to me. They have everything they want in their virtual world, but they want to be part of the greater, real universe. They should have thought that out before they went ahead with this plan. The Council has no right to start looking for bodies these guys can inhabit.

[Zan51]

It's more that they are selling it on the premise that the volunteers get to go into the alien virtual world.

[Nightwriter]

Skyblade012 wrote...

No, it being a virtual world doesn't matter.  It being a virtual world designed to be perfect does.

If you build a world without pain, without work, without strife...  It's not fulfilling, and never will be.

Hell, Mordin even explains this.  Growth comes about by attempting to overcome limitations.  No limitations, no growth, no fulfillment.  "Utopia" means "nowhere".  When the word was coined by Thomas Moore, it was defined that way for a reason.  A utopia is something that can never be reached.

Well obviously this falls under my addendum about the inhabitants needing to not know it's a virtual world.

The goal is to make them think it's real. If it's perfect they're going to catch onto the fact that it isn't real. Part of selling the virtual world as a believable reality is making it mimic life's imperfections and struggles. 

[Eternz]

I think whatever body the aliens get, you'd be pissed if you got a salarian and your mate got an asari, enjoy your 40 years max in the physical world

[smudboy]

Nightwriter wrote...

A digitally controlled state of orgasm won't satisfy you permanently. Eventually you'll get tired of the orgasms.

I say this of course after reading odd medical cases and hearing the story of the Woman Who Has 200 Orgasms a Day. The moral of this story is: eventually you get tired.

My point is that Skyblade will look at their virtual world and say it can never be fulfilling because Skyblade knows it's a virtual world. But "real" is totally relative. If you learned this world was a virtual simulation, would everything we've done in it be meaningless? I don't think so. It's all about perception.

The issue isn't permanent satisfaction.  The concept is an on switch for pleasure.  Feeling down?  Boom.  In pain?  Boom.  Endorphinus maximus.  I will never get tired of pleasure.  It's impact will be lessened as agonists eventually flood the synaptic clefts, but that won't change the impact, just the intensity.

That woman who has 200 orgasms is nothing compared to a switch I can flip in my brain for happy.

It doesn't matter if a "world" is whatever.  We're talking about pleasure, and pleasure and pain are real.  This is not about perception.

Also, Ghost Ships are hilarious and should be avoided. ME2 gave us a few.  Avoid it!

[Lord Jaric]

ReconTeam wrote...

 The Council has no right to start looking for bodies these guys can inhabit.

They aren't looking for bodies, people are volunteering.

[InHarmsWay]

Did the Council chide that Doctor's daughter for her comment about wiping out the virtual civilization?



They were prepare to do the same until the doctor jumped in.

[Skyblade012]

smudboy wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

A digitally controlled state of orgasm won't satisfy you permanently. Eventually you'll get tired of the orgasms.

I say this of course after reading odd medical cases and hearing the story of the Woman Who Has 200 Orgasms a Day. The moral of this story is: eventually you get tired.

My point is that Skyblade will look at their virtual world and say it can never be fulfilling because Skyblade knows it's a virtual world. But "real" is totally relative. If you learned this world was a virtual simulation, would everything we've done in it be meaningless? I don't think so. It's all about perception.

The issue isn't permanent satisfaction.  The concept is an on switch for pleasure.  Feeling down?  Boom.  In pain?  Boom.  Endorphinus maximus.  I will never get tired of pleasure.  It's impact will be lessened as agonists eventually flood the synaptic clefts, but that won't change the impact, just the intensity.

That woman who has 200 orgasms is nothing compared to a switch I can flip in my brain for happy.

It doesn't matter if a "world" is whatever.  We're talking about pleasure, and pleasure and pain are real.  This is not about perception.

Also, Ghost Ships are hilarious and should be avoided. ME2 gave us a few.  Avoid it!

Congratulations, you're now a wirehead.  So addicted to your pleasure sensation, what need have you for anything else?  Ever other sense you've ever felt, you can overwrite it with just intense, tremendous pleasure.  No reason to improve your life, no reason to do anything.  You won't grow, you won't even survive.  You'll die, a terrible, neglected wreck of a human being, but you will have your pleasure.

[Annihilator27]

The volunteer thing was unexpected. Hopefully we get a chance to see what they actually look like or their virtual world.

[smudboy]

Skyblade012 wrote...

Congratulations, you're now a wirehead.  So addicted to your pleasure sensation, what need have you for anything else?  Ever other sense you've ever felt, you can overwrite it with just intense, tremendous pleasure.  No reason to improve your life, no reason to do anything.  You won't grow, you won't even survive.  You'll die, a terrible, neglected wreck of a human being, but you will have your pleasure.

Not at all.  Being a hedonist says nothing of anything else.  In fact, Socrates would say all things that are good are pleasurable, and all things bad are painful.  What does having a switch to turn on the happy negate any other aspect of ones character?

One is not overwriting anything.  There is not classical conditioning toward...anything.  One merely has a switch to experience pleasure.  In pain?  Just flip the switch, it'll hurt less.

Also, ghostships should be avoided by all space faring vessels unless guided by autistic math savants hooked up to the Matrix of Happy.

Modifié par smudboy, 27 septembre 2010 - 01:37 .