42 réponses à ce sujet

[The Fred]

You could just make darts and throwing daggers stack to 500 or more, it's the next best thing (and easily done).

[CoM Solaufein]

Shadowkeeper is your friend. So is CLUAConsole:CreateItem("dart02", 500)

[Metelesku]

What do you think about the idea of thiefs having backstabbing bonus with bows? As jaxsbudgie mentioned, they know how to hit where it hurts. This could depend on dexterity (or THAC0) and distance from the target. Is it possible to mod this?



And also if they can backstab with a quarterstaff why not with warhammer or axe? A fighter/thief should be able to.

[Chebby]

The G3 tweakpack adds options for potions/scrolls/ammunition/darts etc to stack to a massive amount.

About backstabbing with bows, it sort of worked in the NWN games, but it was simply called sneak attack there. I suppose it's plausible, but since 'backstab' is already set in stone, I wouldn't welcome it in BG.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

If they were made able to backstab with bows, they could do horrendous damage by simply walking 2 steps towards the enemy, shooting once, moving back (two steps), hiding, walking 2 steps towards the enemy etc. What is currently possible only with large areas and some form of Haste (and still not perfect) would turn into a more powerful SotM, especially if the ranged weapons are made more powerful.

Backstabbing with more melee weapons has already been enabled by several mods for example IR and Level1NPCs.

[Metelesku]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

If they were made able to backstab with bows, they could do horrendous damage by simply walking 2 steps towards the enemy, shooting once, moving back (two steps), hiding, walking 2 steps towards the enemy etc.

That's why I suggest it to depend on dexterity and distance. Backstab with bow from a large distance would be impossible. The shorter the distance the lesser dexterity would be necessary to backstab successfully. I would set some minimum dexterity requirement for a ranged backstab though (17 or 18). The backstab multiplier could depend on this as well.

[The Fred]

As Chebby mentioned, "bow backstabbing" is in NWN (and I think that would be because it's in 3rd edition, but I have no idea if that's the case) by a different name, but it only works when you are close to the target, as Metelesku suggests. So, *if* such a thing (i.e. backstabbing with a distance restriction) could be implemented for BG, it wouldn't be as overpowered as being able to step away and hide again, since you would still probably need some sort of Haste or distraction, though it would mean you could backstab-run-hide-run-backstab more often since you wouldn't have to get as close, and it would be safer too.

[Shadow_Leech07]

If I could mod the game, I'd upgrade several enemy fighters to have particular spells as special abilities. Namely, spell trap, spell immunity and simulacrum. Also I would proliferate weapons which either hit on dispel or were of elemental in property(items do not drop). Now this would be done primarily for enemy fighters in Throne of Bhaal, as not many SoA fighters should really have these abilities, I'll explain furthur below.

My thinking is this, fighters spend most of their time gathering magic items to increase their capabilities. We got Ibratha, Gargoyle boots, and Vhailor's helm to name a few. What's to say that high level enemies by the end of the game, who have already survived their own ordeal would not have gathered similar items as the player character?

Modifié par Shadow_Leech07, 19 septembre 2010 - 03:03 .

[jaxsbudgie]

The Fred wrote...

As Chebby mentioned, "bow backstabbing" is in NWN (and I think that would be because it's in 3rd edition, but I have no idea if that's the case) by a different name, but it only works when you are close to the target, as Metelesku suggests. So, *if* such a thing (i.e. backstabbing with a distance restriction) could be implemented for BG, it wouldn't be as overpowered as being able to step away and hide again, since you would still probably need some sort of Haste or distraction, though it would mean you could backstab-run-hide-run-backstab more often since you wouldn't have to get as close, and it would be safer too.

Methinks it would be overpowered, sounds interesting, but overpowered.
NWN uses 3rd editions rules, which replaced backstab with sneak attack, which does less damage but is easier to pull off multiple times within one battle without the need of going invisible. Thieves gain sneak attack bonuses every other level (I'm not sure on which levels), and the damage is increased by 1D6 each time. The good thing about 3rd edition sneak attack, is you can do it when the enemy doesn't suspect you (not necessarily invisible), flanking, incapacitated etc etc. Also you can only sneak attack with a ranged weapon when you're in 30ft of the target.
In the DnD campaign I used to play a few years back my rogue/fighter wielded a whip dagger (imagine a nimble dagger (more like a dirk) attached the the end of a whip), sneak attacking with that was glorious because I gained flanking bonuses left right and centre.
In my opinion sneak attack is better than backstab, I would love to see a mod (maybe RogueRebalancing) attempt to change backstab to sneak attack. But I have a feeling it's nigh impossible and hard coded. Oh well, bring on the Baldur's Gate mod in the NWN 2 engine!

Modifié par jaxsbudgie, 19 septembre 2010 - 04:37 .

[The Fred]

Yeah, 3rd edition sneak is a bit less powerful, but able to hit more often... though still, getting half your level in d6s added is quite nice, and probably more than getting your measly base damage doubled, it's just that the multiplier in 2nd ed probably increases faster (in terms of damage increase) than the d6s do in 3rd ed.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

I don't know. A major problem with playing an assassin in BG2 is that even with a multiplyer of 7, if you have just a weapon +2, you might end up dealing a mere 21 damage. (depending on the weapon, this can range from 12,5% to 16,7% probability)

With a nice number of additional dice, the odds of a damage deficiency is much smaller. (of course, the odds of getting a super backstab shrink in a similar fashion)

More dice equal more damage stability.

Modifié par Humanoid_Taifun, 19 septembre 2010 - 10:55 .

[jaxsbudgie]

Off topic ... Humanoid Taifun, you don't happen to listen to Aphex Twin do you?

[Humanoid_Taifun]

This picture got a number of people to send me some links of Aphex Twin, but other than that, no. :-þ

[Weary Hermit]

I'd like to see high Wisdom and Intelligence gaining spell immunities as per the 2nd edition Players Handbook. Would make those stats really useful to every class.



1 Stat bonus per 4 levels gained like NWN system.

[Humanoid_Taifun]

Demivrgvs wrote...
I think you're understimating how powerful this class is.

Okay, I just gathered some more experience with archers and there is something about them - that's strictly illegal. Played correctly, an archer can avoid damage nearly to the same extent as somebody abusing the SotM, entering the sight of enemies for only as long as it takes them to shoot an arrow (or bolt or bullet) and disappearing immediately - not giving the AI enough time to target the character. This doesn't work with group tactics though and will fail when you are facing somebody able to see through invisibility or in too small an area to hide.
Of course, even without this exploit an archer can drastically reduce damage intake with hit-and-run tactics, scattering the enemy across the map and taking them out one by one.
So the power of the archer depends largely on whether or not he has to stand his ground.

[Chebby]

jaxsbudgie wrote...

Oh well, bring on the Baldur's Gate mod in the NWN 2 engine!

Where sneak attacking will be at least 50%+ harder to achieve due to the aggro being psychotic in that game. "Hey, swamp beetle, there's that ginger guy with a sword charging at us!"
"We'll get him in due time. You see that invisible guy with around 12+ ranks in sneaking skills?"
"Uhhh, no?"
"Well let's attack him anyway, even if he is invisible."
"What if he tries flanking us?"
"Then we turn around and end up chasing him across half the map."

[Demivrgvs]

Humanoid_Taifun wrote...

Demivrgvs wrote...
I think you're understimating how powerful this class is.

Okay, I just gathered some more experience with archers and there is something about them - that's strictly illegal. Played correctly, an archer can avoid damage nearly to the same extent as somebody abusing the SotM, entering the sight of enemies for only as long as it takes them to shoot an arrow (or bolt or bullet) and disappearing immediately - not giving the AI enough time to target the character. ...

I wasn't suggesting that. Exploiting the poor AI isn't really necessary with an Archer, he is a powerhouse. I consider it one of the top notch kits, almost on par with Berserker and Inquisitor.

An Archer can easily deal 15-20 points of damage per hit (if not more) with 4-5 attacks per round, and almost infallible thac0 (even better than a Kensai because bow and arrow bonuses stack). Being able to do that from far away is a huge advantage in many situations, because quite often you can dish out a great amount of damage before the enemy can even reach you, or you can strike whoever you want in a split second (a mage's protections run out but he is on the other side of the screen? no prob, he won't be able to cast anything else in his life). If you add to that elemental arrows (anti-Stoneskin) and dispelling arrows (slightly OP in vanilla) you actually have a character who can dispatch even archmages with ease.

Last time I played an Archer (charname) he was by far the character in the party with the higher kill ratio, by a lot, outshining even a powerful tank like a Barbarian (Minsc).

So the power of the archer depends largely on whether or not he has to stand his ground.

Indeed, but that's what tanks are there for, Archers are not supposed to stand their ground at all (and still, they don't suck too much if they have to). Unless you're playing Improved Anvil, or your party is built so badly that the Archer is your main tank, trust me he's gonna unleash death from afar.

Modifié par Demivrgvs, 23 septembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[jaxsbudgie]

Last time I played an Archer was in Tutu then then imported into SoA. BG1 was difficult at the start but I just breezed through the later parts. SoA was a breeze as well, so much so that I actually stopped. I may start again since I almost always use SCS now, maybe I'll play a party consisting entirely of ranged people ...