56 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

Will we get any more examples/documentation on the various fictional languages in Thedas in Dragon Age 2?

I've actually been thinking of this since the first time I played Origins and came across Spiritorum Etherialis in the mage's tower, -um and -is being Latin word endings.  I guess the most telling example would be the Tevinter Imperium, “imperium” being an actual Latin word (“empire”).  Also, it appears their language itself is called Arcanum (“mystery”).  Since Tevinter is based off of the Byzantine Empire, this is probably not so shocking.

The wiki shows some loose grammar rules for the language, though, and I was wondering where they came from and if we would be getting more?  The wiki knows of genitive (-l) and accusative (-ud) cases, as well as the imperative mood (-ev) and what appears to be the second person indicative active (-e).  

Does BioWare have an in-house philologist by chance?  Are these languages fully formed or is it just expanded when needed?

[Arrtis]

They will add if needed.

[Saibh]

Also, maleficar is the Latin word for "witch". It only makes sense that Latin (or a variation thereof) is the base of Thedas languages, considering they speak various Romance tongues. Given that Tevinter seems to be the oldest civilization in Thedas, excusing the elves...

Modifié par Saibh, 28 août 2010 - 03:33 .

[Maverick827]

Nice catch, though the dictionary I use (as a crutch...I'm terrible with second languages) says "malefica," which would make more sense as an ending. I'm not sure what it means for the language, though.

I think we can assume "Arcanum" and "Imperium" are nominative nouns, and I would have thought something used so liberally in-game as "maleficar" would be nominative as well, but I suppose it could be some form of declension.

[Arrtis]

Latin is a horrible language.
SO has this become name as many words that originate from latin?

Modifié par Arrtis, 28 août 2010 - 03:43 .

[Leonia]

Maieficar (s)/ Maleficarum (pl) is a sixth declension noun. Or something.

Just as the locations are loosely based on real life places, so too are the languages, more than likely.

I'd love to learn more about the languages, particularly Elvish, which would have existed before the Tevinter Imperium came along.

Modifié par leonia42, 28 août 2010 - 04:53 .

[Sigma Tauri]

I'd like to learn if Bioware really did have the ambition to create new languages for Dragon Age, and if so what happened?

[Saibh]

monkeycamoran wrote...

I'd like to learn if Bioware really did have the ambition to create new languages for Dragon Age, and if so what happened?

The qunari language is unique, but I doubt a full language.

[Saibh]

filaminstrel wrote...

Doesn't the Elvish language (what Leliana sings) have a sort of Gaelic vibe to it?

Not to my ears. This is awesome Gaelic, which, even though it's not spoken as it looks, is still sort of clunky to the ears. If it's actually based on it, Elvish is a severely prettied up version, listening to In Uthenera.

Modifié par Saibh, 28 août 2010 - 06:17 .

[ErichHartmann]

Going off topic but one of my favorite parts in KOTOR was conversing with the Sand People (Tusken raiders) through HK-47 acting as a translator (the assassin droid).

[Saibh]

ErichHartmann wrote...

Going off topic but one of my favorite parts in KOTOR was conversing with the Sand People (Tusken raiders) through HK-47 acting as a translator (the assassin droid).

That's in KOTOR II, no?

Also...

Mucha shaka paka?

Modifié par Saibh, 28 août 2010 - 06:26 .

[Riona45]

Saibh wrote...

ErichHartmann wrote...

Going off topic but one of my favorite parts in KOTOR was conversing with the Sand People (Tusken raiders) through HK-47 acting as a translator (the assassin droid).

That's in KOTOR II, no?

I distinctly recall it being in the first game.  In the second game he tells you about being a translator but I can't remember ever having to use him for that.

Also...

Mucha shaka paka?

Ha!

[Saibh]

Riona45 wrote...

I distinctly recall it being in the first game.  In the second game he tells you about being a translator but I can't remember ever having to use him for that.

Oh, wait, yes, you're right. For some reason, I was mixing up repairing his memory with repairing him to be a party member, and assumed that you had to get parts for him (as in II) so you could buy him and use him as a translator (in I). Yeah.

[Maverick827]

I was a PS2 guy when KOTOR first came out, so I couldn't play initially. I just forgot about it when it came out on the PC, so I never got around to playing them.

I have my doubts that any of these languages are fully created, but I suppose those based upon existing languages would be more plausible than entirely unique ones.

I hear the Na'vi from Avatar had an entire language created for them, but I don't think they used it enough in the movie to justify it. I would have to say the same for pretty much all languages in DAO, but we'll see what things are like in DA2.

I just wish I didn't make this thread so late on a weekend, now I gotta bump it later if I have any chance of an official reply. =/

[Leonia]

I definitely get a Celtic vibe with the Dalish in general, in terms of their culture and language. I'm working on some fan-fiction now and intend to expand the Dalish language further as I go along but we have so few words to work with so far. It's certainly a challenge since so much of their culture was lost so it would be silly to invent too much of it and be like "oh here is the lexicon of the Dales!" But I love the idea of them preserving and learning more about their past. Perhaps they will take old bits of language that they do know and combine it with human words and create something new that is uniquely their own?

Speaking of human language.. what IS the human language called and do all nations speak it? I just keep referring to it as "the common tongue" in my fanfic lately. I like to imagine there is an Orlesian and Antivan language that we just haven't heard yet instead of just different dialects of what we know already.

Modifié par leonia42, 28 août 2010 - 08:33 .

[Randy1012]

leonia42 wrote...

I definitely get a Celtic vibe with the Dalish in general, in terms of their culture and language. I'm working on some fan-fiction now and intend to expand the Dalish language further as I go along but we have so few words to work with so far. It's certainly a challenge since so much of their culture was lost so it would be silly to invent too much of it and be like "oh here is the lexicon of the Dales!" But I love the idea of them preserving and learning more about their past. Perhaps they will take old bits of language that they do know and combine it with human words and create something new that is uniquely their own?

Speaking of human language.. what IS the human language called and do all nations speak it? I just keep referring to it as "the common tongue" in my fanfic lately. I like to imagine there is an Orlesian and Antivan language that we just haven't heard yet instead of just different dialects of what we know already.

I don't think there is a single "human language" in Thedas. I'd rather there wasn't a "common tongue" like we see in other fantasy settings, as that's really just a cheat.

It's more likely that everyone in DAO and DAA were speaking Fereldan, since that would have been the main language of the games' primary location (Ferelden, of course), but obviously "translated" into English for our benefit. And while I may be wrong about this, based on the Celtic and Old English influence seen in Fereldan names and culture, my guess is that the Fereldan language would also sound like some strange mish-mash of the various Britannic languages. Much like how Orlesian is probably evocative of French, and the Tevinter language likely has a Greco-Roman flavor to it.

If anything, the most commonly spoken human language outside of the Tevinter Imperium is probably Orlesian, since that's the language of the Andrastian Chantry. The Imperial Chantry would, of course, use the Tevinter language.

Modifié par Randy1083, 28 août 2010 - 09:08 .

[Ladybright]

There was a series of posts on the old forums from a linguist who was working on languages for DAO. Much of what he said was not included in the final game and is now a bit out of date (iirc), but it was interesting series of posts nonetheless. He told us how to say "I want a cheeseburger" in Elvish, among other things.

Give me a few minutes, maybe I can find it...


Edit: Found it! Also the phrase was "I am a cheeseburger." I stand corrected.

Look for the posts by Beesechurger.

Modifié par Ladybright, 28 août 2010 - 10:23 .

[Leonia]

Oooh, good find, Ladybright! There are some interesting threads on those old forums, for sure. I'm so bookmarking that one.

EDIT: Found the cheeseburger bit:

Syny unun kysbargarun yo.
Shue shiahthau uet tshuesparkar.
Ei laro and tshurbud.
"I am a cheeseburger."
in 3 of the DA languages:)

Modifié par leonia42, 28 août 2010 - 11:11 .

[Ladybright]

Can you identify which language is which? We should have language from the elves, dwarves, and qunari, I think. No other languages featured prominently in the game.

Tbh, I can't place them. I'm going to guess the second one is elven?

Modifié par Ladybright, 28 août 2010 - 11:32 .

[Leonia]

According to the old thread, the last of the three is Greco-Roman, implying it might be Tevinter or Human. Still trying to make sense of much of that thread. Kinda bummed that the Elven wedding ceremony wasn't revealed, already did a search for more information on that.

Modifié par leonia42, 28 août 2010 - 11:50 .

[Sigma Tauri]

Saibh wrote...

monkeycamoran wrote...

I'd like to learn if Bioware really did have the ambition to create new languages for Dragon Age, and if so what happened?

The qunari language is unique, but I doubt a full language.

Not talking about the qunari language. Around when DA was announced years ago, I've heard Bioware wanted to create new languages for their world. I wonder what happened to that.

edit: Nevermind. Ladybright's awesome skills provided. Thank you.

Modifié par monkeycamoran, 28 août 2010 - 01:04 .

[Heretical Sound]

Maverick827 wrote...

I've actually been thinking of this since the first time I played Origins and came across Spiritorum Etherialis in the mage's tower, -um and -is being Latin word endings.  I guess the most telling example would be the Tevinter Imperium, “imperium” being an actual Latin word (“empire”).  Also, it appears their language itself is called Arcanum (“mystery”).  Since Tevinter is based off of the Byzantine Empire, this is probably not so shocking.

The wiki shows some loose grammar rules for the language, though, and I was wondering where they came from and if we would be getting more?  The wiki knows of genitive (-l) and accusative (-ud) cases, as well as the imperative mood (-ev) and what appears to be the second person indicative active (-e).  

The problem with Tevinter being 'based off Byzatium is that the language spoken changed from 'latin' to 'greek'. So it's a little complex:lol:. Simple version was that the Roman Empire split into two parts in the third century. Then Empreror Herclius changed the official language of the East to 'greek' in the seventh century.  So if Tevinter is based of Medieval Byzantium then it would be a 'greek' derivative. However given Spiritorum Etherialis is a historical text ... eh obfuscating . Tevinter never underwent a split so ... I really have no idea. Of course I am assuming it will correlate exactly so that's where the problem lies.

Filaminstrel wrote...
Doesn't the Elvish language (what Leliana sings) have a sort of Gaelic vibe to it?

:lol:Careful there, given that Gaelic could refer to one of three languages.

Leonia42 wrote ...
I definitely get a Celtic vibe with the Dalish in general, in terms of their [...] language.

Again careful, that could refer to as many as seven languages. :happy:

With 'Celtic' you have two branches. The Brythonic (Brittonic) branch and Goidelic (Gaelic) branch.
Within them you have:
Brythonic: Welsh
                   Cornish
                    Breton
  Goidelic:  Irish Gaelic
                    Scottish Gaelic
                    Manx

As to which if any are used as a base for Elvish or whatever then I'm not sure.
In Uthenera Lyrics (Leliana's song)

hahren na melana sahlin
emma ir abelas
souver'inan isala hamin
vhenan him dor'felas
in uthenera na revas

vir sulahn'nehn
vir dirthera
vir samahl la numin
vir lath sa'vunin

Gortoz a ran - J'attends (Denez Prigent) Breton

Gortozet m eus, gortozet pell
E skeud teñval tourioù gell
E skeud teñval tourioù gell

E skeud teñval an tourioù glav
Chwi am gwelo chortoz atav
Chwi am gwelo chortoz atav

Un deiz a vo teuio en-dro
Dreist ar morioù, dreist ar maezioù
Dreist ar maezioù, dreist ar morioù

Dam laerezh war an treujoù
teuio en-dro karget a fru
E skeud teñval an tourioù du

teuio en-dro an avel chlas
Da analañ va chalon chloazt

Kaset e vin diouzh e anall
Pell gant ar red en ur vro all

Kaset e vin diouzh e alan
Pell gant ar red, hervez deus choant

Hervez deus choant pell eus ar bed
Etre ar mor hag ar stered

Ar Eirinn Ni Neosfainn Ce Hi - Maria McCool() - Irish

Aréir is mé ag téarnamh um neoin
ar an taobh thall den teora ina mbím
do thaobhnaigh an spéirbhean i m' chomhair
d'fhag taomanach breoite lag sinn.
do ghéilleas dá méin is dá cló
dá bréithre 's dá beol tana binn.
Do léimeas fá dhéin dul 'na comhair
is ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí.

Dá ngéillfeadh an spéirbhean do m' ghlór
agus ráite mo bheoil a bheith fíor
go deimhin duit, go ndéanfainn do ghnó,
do léirchur i gcóir is i gcríoch.
Do léifinn go léir stair do m' stór
is bna mhéin liom í a phógadh ó m' chroí
do bhéarfainn an chraobh di gan ghó,
is ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí.

Tá spéirbhruinneall mhaorga dheas óg
Ar an taobh eile den teora ina mbím,
Tá féile agus daonnacht ina snó
Is deise agus meon ins an mhnaoi
Tá folt aici ar lasadh mar ór
Go cócanach ómarach buí,
Tá lasadh ina leacain mar rós
S ar Éirinn ní neosfainn cé hí.

Hen Wlad fy nhadau - Bryn Terfel (Welsh)

Mae hen wlad fy nhadau yn annwyl i mi,
Gwlad beirdd a chantorion, enwogion o fri;
Ei gwrol ryfelwyr, gwladgarwyr tra mâd,
Dros ryddid collasant eu gwaed.

Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf i'm gwlad.
Tra môr yn fur i'r bur hoff bau,
O bydded i'r hen iaith barhau.

Also Light of Aidan - Lament (don't kill me )

Gafflwn Dihenydd O’r fuddugol yn wiriol sydd,
Ni fydd neb yn ein drechu,

Falch ydy ni I drochu,
Traed o flaen I’r Annwn,
mewn y gwybodaeth fe
godwn ni.

With regards to Human languages of Thedas, they definetely do exist as separate languages not simply dialects.
Based upon this. Relevant quote:' It is no surprise that much of the Fade appears like a manuscript
translated from Tevinter into Orlesian and back again by drunken
initiates.'

With regards to Fereldan and language/culture .... if we use Medieval Britain as a guide then it is horrific mess. No really. Britiain went through multiple invasions from the Roman to the Norman. Each brought their own culture and language. The older culture was subsumed and pushed aside. This in part explains why English is an absolute mongrel of a language with French, German, Latin, Greek  influences present among others. Same thing with place names although most of you would have no idea where I was talking about so I'll leave it:happy:.
  Something else for consideration is that Fereldan may not necessarily based on Medieval England but Scotland. Following the Norman invasion, Orlesian 'French' became the language of the court. During the thirteenth century King Edward I invaded Scotland, therefore the Orlesian occupation could be based upon this as opposed the Norman invasion.
 Also worth mentioning  is that here is quite a strong Scottish theme going with names e.g. Duncan, Alistair, Fergus. That said there are also elements of Irish culture present in names and legends. Such as Morrigan, Niall, Conochbar. Cormac. Like I said massive jumble. :happy:

Modifié par Heretical Sound, 28 août 2010 - 04:31 .

[Leonia]

Good points, I did notice a lot of Scottish names being thrown around (and the Irish ones). As for the Elvish language, it is probably a combination of different elements. I'm certainly no expert on the Celtic languages but I do find them fascinating. Much more interesting than the five years of Latin that I studied anyway



Thanks for an interesting post, Heretical Sound. That is some cool food for thought right there.