359 réponses à ce sujet

[Hex of Hell]

Did anyone else playing as female Shepard find that line more than a little insulting?

If you can't remember it, I'll set it up for you. Essentially, it's at the end of Jacob's loyalty mission. You end up with the option to discuss his old days with Miranda, and her keeping a promise she made to him. He ends up stating that Miranda "requires a better man than I". It particularly grabbed my attention when my Shepard was romancing him. I had hoped he might say something else. He did not.

So, he's not a good enough man for Miranda... but he'll do for Shepard?  Shepard was dead, not desparate. There's plenty of other men/asari out there in the galaxy dying to take Shepard's wild ride, she doesn't need to settle for anyone. Shepard is the hero of the galaxy. I would think Shepard would require far more man than Miranda ever would to keep up with her. Despite everything else he says and does for Shepard, that line made it feel like he had zero respect for her, at least in those playthroughs where he was courting Shepard. It felt like he was either saying that she's a lesser woman than Miranda, so he'll settle for her because she's the best he's going to get right now, or that he knows she's too good so he's going to have his fun until she figures it out.

[upsettingshorts]

Maybe that's exactly what he thinks and he's a guy who said the wrong thing at the wrong time to a woman.

Wouldn't be the first time, heh.

Or maybe it's like Pacifien says below and he just failed to communicate his feelings and it came out wrong.

Also wouldn't be the first time.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 août 2010 - 01:42 .

[Pacifien]

I see a lot of people bring up that line as evidence that Jacob is a horrible romance option. I interpreted the line differently. More like "Miranda is high maintenance and I'm not the man who's going to deal with that ****."

[Hex of Hell]

Pacifien wrote...

I see a lot of people bring up that line as evidence that Jacob is a horrible romance option. I interpreted the line differently. More like "Miranda is high maintenance and I'm not the man who's going to deal with that ****."

Hmm, maybe. But it just didn't sound that way to me. I just finished that part right before I posted this so it's fresh in my mind. The mild outrage is what made me post in the first place. He just seemed so full of... regret almost. Miranda looked at him all sad and then he watched her go so thoughtfully and then said that. I felt like his silver medal.

[tommyt_1994]

Pacifien wrote...

I see a lot of people bring up that line as evidence that Jacob is a horrible romance option. I interpreted the line differently. More like "Miranda is high maintenance and I'm not the man who's going to deal with that ****."

This. Jacob says she requires a better man then him. He's saying that Miranda is super high maintenance and that he couldn't ever fulfill that. he didn't say "she deserves a better man than I" like I see people quoting all over the place.

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 29 août 2010 - 01:46 .

[upsettingshorts]

The high-maintenance reasoning does hold water given Miranda's story. Jacob may really have liked her, a lot, and I get the impression he does regret that it didn't work out. But it does seem like he accepted that it didn't and isn't really pining for her or anything - he's moved on.

Plus do you think a mature, thoughtful person would describe a co-worker as "too high maintenance for me" in such a blunt fashion to her next potential suitor, who is also a co-worker?  If that's what he's trying to say, then the words he picked are for lack of a better word, diplomatic.

And Miranda herself has issues with her creation and purpose. She has deep existential problems, and being a high ranking Cerberus officer comes with a lot of strings attached.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 29 août 2010 - 01:50 .

[epoch_]

I don't have the proper perspective to find it insulting.

[Mondo47]

Never really read it that way... I always saw it as Jacob saying he wasn't able to really give her what she needed; Jacob just wasn't equipped to handle her baggage. It's not him saying he's not good enough for her, but Shepard'll do, he's just saying he can't be the kind of person she needs. It's not phrased in a particularly poetic manner, but hey, it's honest at least. It says a lot about Jacob as a man... I mean, not everyone would be able to give Jack, for instance, the kind of time and support she might need... not being able to be that man wouldn't be an admission of being a failure, maybe more one of regret or sympathy, or even understanding of the distance needed to be travelled.

Evidently Jacob can't handle what Miranda needs (or what he thinks she needs at least)... most guys wouldn't be as honest about it, I'd think.

[Hex of Hell]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Plus do you think a mature, thoughtful person would describe a co-worker as "too high maintenance for me" in such a blunt fashion to her next potential suitor, who is also a co-worker?  If that's what he's trying to say, then the words he picked are for lack of a better word, diplomatic.

Except that as a female I'm not her next potential suitor, I'm his next potential suitor. That's why I specified that the line sounds odd when playing as a female. As a male I don't think anything of it. If anything it could be a compliment in that he thinks I'm the better man. As a female though, it seemed like a rather poor choice of words if anything. I don't know of many women that if told by the current man in their lives that his ex requires a better man wouldn't wonder what he meant by that and wonder why they didn't. Shouldn't Shepard require the best?

It could just be that the line was hard to write with both a male and female Shepard in mind and so it can come off ambiguous. I was just wondering if anyone else took it the same way I did. I guess not.

[smudboy]

If Jacob can't handle Miranda, he just screwed himself over trying out for Ms. Zombie.

[upsettingshorts]

Yeah, I thought of that after I typed it, but recalled that it seemed not to be a sex-specific line. It's what he says after asking about Miranda, yes?



Anyway, the other explanations offered in this thread are pretty solid.

[demersel]

That line is there for male sheps sake. It is just lazy writing.

[upsettingshorts]

I don't know... what interest does Jacob have in building up ManShep's ego at the expense of his own?



I really do think that Mondo47's explanation seems the best.

[Mondo47]

Captain Hex wrote...

Except that as a female I'm not her next potential suitor, I'm his next potential suitor. That's why I specified that the line sounds odd when playing as a female. As a male I don't think anything of it. If anything it could be a compliment in that he thinks I'm the better man. As a female though, it seemed like a rather poor choice of words if anything. I don't know of many women that if told by the current man in their lives that his ex requires a better man wouldn't wonder what he meant by that and wonder why they didn't. Shouldn't Shepard require the best?

It could just be that the line was hard to write with both a male and female Shepard in mind and so it can come off ambiguous. I was just wondering if anyone else took it the same way I did. I guess not.

Each to their own... all I'd say is that if the man in my life said his ex needed someone better than him because (and I'm being super-blunt here) she had issues of some kind, or was a total basketcase, or demanded twelve inches, I'd say "Hey, you might not have fit the bill for her, but you fit it for me." You can fit some people, not others - not being the right peg for the right hole doesn't make you bad - it just means you need to find an, uh, hole that fits you?

And hey, since Shep never has traumatic flashbacks to his/her unit getting nommed by thresher-maws, or discusses the hard time they had making friends as they grew up on a dozen different ships, or in a streetgang on Earth, or whatever past event helped form them as a hero, we can assume almost anyone can fit the bill for ol' Shep without needing to know much more than where to put it

[upsettingshorts]

The positive way of expressing the same feeling, but towards FemShep as opposed to about Miranda, would be "You're easy to be with." If I'm reading Mondo47's interpretation correctly.

[jbblue05]

Its pretty obvious Miranda deeply cared for Jacob.

I'm guessing Miranda was serious about settling down having kids and marriage stuff like that

and Jacob probably told her it wasn't going to work out and he doesn't see them as long term. so they break up but keep it professional

So Jacob broke her heart feels like a jerk and can't forgive himself.



So Miranda wasn't the right woman for him and Jacob wasn't the right man for Miranda.

[Chuvvy]

You're misunderstanding what he's saying. What he means is, she's high maintenance.

Modifié par Slidell505, 29 août 2010 - 02:22 .

[Big Yam]

Femshep comes on to Jacob like she's desperate.  Maybe he really does think femshep is second to Miranda, and isn't afraid to say so.

[Niddy']

I hate the way she stands around him, like she's a fat kid acting cutesy to get candy for free. Hell come to think of it male Shepard stands like that too....

[Lewie]

As soon as i heard that line i just took it as 'something' that happened between him and miranda in the past but that was it. I didn't do the romance Jacob thing anyway and you can only speculate on what he meant. The fact that he said it though shows a bit of a wuss side to him, why should he care what miranda 'requires' anyway to the point he will openly say, its actually almost an admission, he is not enough or whatever.

[demersel]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

I don't know... what interest does Jacob have in building up ManShep's ego at the expense of his own?

I really do think that Mondo47's explanation seems the best.

True. Jacob has no such interest. But screenwriters of the game on the other hand... It is just a plot device to further compliment and engourage the player into feeling uniqe, awsome, powerful, handsome, caring, bad-ass or whatever. And is one of the build ups for miranda romance. Jocob is one of the most "wounded" characters in that regard. In ME1 - Kaidan was a girl-toy. I'm sorry but that what he was. In ME2 they tried to introduce this Bromance thing. Jocob is in the game not so much for Femsheps, (that's what Thane is there for. sic!), but more so for male sheps. To be his buddy. Your COOL  friend that that thinks you're more awsome than he is and constantly tells you about it.. 

IMHO they overdid it a bit.

[Hex of Hell]

Mondo47 wrote...

Each to their own... all I'd say is that if the man in my life said his ex needed someone better than him because (and I'm being super-blunt here) she had issues of some kind, or was a total basketcase, or demanded twelve inches, I'd say "Hey, you might not have fit the bill for her, but you fit it for me." You can fit some people, not others - not being the right peg for the right hole doesn't make you bad - it just means you need to find an, uh, hole that fits you?

I'd feel the same if that's what he had said. But he doesn't give a reason. He just makes the statement and lets it hang there. Like I said, I guess the statement was just ambiguous enough to make me wonder, but not so for others. I know that if I were to tell my fiance that my ex required a better woman than me, it would give him pause. Especially if he didn't know anything about the man or his issues.

Slidell505 wrote...

You're misunderstanding what he's saying. What he means is, she's high maintenance.

Yeah... that's my whole point actually. That what he says is able to be misunderstood by my character. At this point in the story, I may or may not have ever even spoken to
Miranda about her personal life or have any clue as to how high
maintenance she is. All I see is some attractive woman that I know he
has a history with, that he says that about. But whatever. I get that
nobody else interpreted it this way and I will simply go back to
silently thinking Jacob is an inadvertent idiot. I wasn't trying to offend anyone or anything.

Modifié par Captain Hex, 29 août 2010 - 02:30 .

[Mondo47]

Captain Hex wrote...

Yeah... that's my whole point actually. That what he says is able to be misunderstood by my character. At this point in the story, I may or may not have ever even spoken to
Miranda about her personal life or have any clue as to how high
maintenance she is. All I see is some attractive woman that I know he
has a history with, that he says that about. But whatever. I get that
nobody else interpreted it this way and I will simply go back to
silently thinking Jacob is an inadvertent idiot. I wasn't trying to offend anyone or anything.

Ah, I wasn't offended or anything at least. It's a good question because it's come up a few times, so there's something to it. The line is most likely the way it is to clumsily fit for Sheps of either gender, and the various interpretations are really just down to the individual, but at the end of the day, this is Jacob "The Priiize" Taylor here - saying things the right way... it ain't really his forte, is it?