359 réponses à ce sujet

[upsettingshorts]

If humanity hadn't already invented book burning, the Twilight novels would demand that we make up for that deficiency.

[KainrycKarr]

I think you're reading too much into it.

[Lisa_H]

I got insulted by the better man dialogue. Okay for Shep, but not good enough for Miranda. Just one of the reasons I dislike the Jacob romance. But maybe man and women interpret it in different ways, many here have other interpretations. But I know that every woman I know that has played the game(and that is quite many) has seen it as an insult.

[Fiery Phoenix]

As much as I hate to say it, but Jacob is an all round flawed person.

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 29 août 2010 - 10:06 .

[AresXX7]

o.k.
not to go off topic, but is it just me, or does anyone else start thinking of Pearl Jam's "Better Man" song
while discussing this subject?
(had to ask, cause I can't get the song out of my head now )

[Never]

AriesXX7 wrote...

o.k.
not to go off topic, but is it just me, or does anyone else start thinking of Pearl Jam's "Better Man" song
while discussing this subject?
(had to ask, cause I can't get the song out of my head now )

I didn't think of it, but now it's stuck in my head

On topic, I totally agree with you OP.I can see how it could mean different things, but it made me go, whaaaa?

That and the "I don't like to force these kinds of talks, Commander" line just made me give up on him. Seriously? I just asked how you were. Never mind the fact I said it super sleazy while leaning on a table...

[klossen4]

i was not offended but hey i was male shep.

[lovgreno]

I don't think it was intended as insulting by the writers even if it did sound like that to a femShep. The Jacob romance had it's problems, it's true, but no one is perfect, not even the writers working for BioWare.



To a maleShep romancing Miranda however that line sounds kind of good. In that context it meant more like something like: "I tried but it didn't work out. I hope you two will be happy though as you both are my friends.". I suspect the writers had that in mind when writing this dialouge.

[Ziggy]

I think the writers were too concerned with making maleshep players feel like they are the "better man" to worry about what the sentence implies for femshep.

Modifié par Em23, 29 août 2010 - 11:49 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

Em23 wrote...

I think the writers were too concerned with making maleshep players feel like they are the "better man" to worrying about what the sentence implies for femshep.

LMAO! 
 
Sorry, I just found that funny for some reason.

[Caihn]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

What most likely happened was that Jacob was turned down by Miranda.  If you play the male Shepard and ask Jacob "You have history with Miranda?" he says...

Jacob-"It got a little close. Then it got really far apart."
Shepard-"Just looking for insight on her character. I find her interesting."
Jacob- "Right.  Can't help you there commander.  If I had any idea what made her tick, I'd be with her or I'd be dead."
Jacob-"That's all you really need to know."
Shepard-"Sour Grapes?"

Tick-What makes one function characteristically, what motivates one
Sour grapes -is an expression that means denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired.

This makes sense because Jacob said "She requires a better man than I."

^this


And for once, Jacob said something intelligent. Miranda requires a better man than him. She requires my Shep.

Modifié par Yannkee, 29 août 2010 - 01:53 .

[BurningArmor]

To set up some perspective about my play throughs, I have had my male Shepards mostly stay loyal to to his LI's from ME1.  Only recently have I let Shepard admit he was lonely enough to seek out Miranda for a fling, and in the current play through, Shepard has decided he wants to be with Tali. 

As for the two Femsheps I've played, they both actually remain virgin.  In the first case, I was in my first play through.  Kaiden was killed on Virmire so that obviously went nowhere.  That Femshep decided not to repeat that mistake in ME2.  The second femshep I went into the game with the was role played with General George Patton's view, "I don't want these men to love me; I want them to fight for me."  Hope I got that quote right.  Guess I need to go watch the movie again.

Back to the topic:  Jacob's line was not insulting to my femsheps because of their attitudes toward a relationship with him to start with.  That line plus Miranda's line about keeping a promise, and what I interpreted as disappointment in Miranda's face before she turned away, confirmed these two have history.  They were on the rebound, and Jacob perhaps was not a good choice for an LI even if my femshep had wanted one.

For me the insult came when femshep started throwing herself at Jacob if she tried to speak to him at all.  Don't get me wrong, it is good to have the option for those that want to play it that way, but I honestly feel I don't know Jacob that well because I didn't have alot of options in that reguard.

[Lewie]

Lord Jaric wrote...

louise101 wrote...

The fact that he said it though shows a bit of a wuss side to him, why should he care what miranda 'requires' anyway to the point he will openly say, its actually almost an admission, he is not enough or whatever.

Why is it when a man opens up, or doesn't act tough, he is called a wuss. There is nothing wussy about a honest man.

Maybe wuss was the wrong word, of course girls like guys who are honest and open Jacob is a soldier so he's not weak or pathetic he has his own mind even with regards to cerberus etc but i just found for me that comment let him down slightly.

[TelexFerra]

OH come now, nothing is better than the flessshhhh....

[PWENER]

Not even cartoon Femshep likes him...



THE RISK.....

[Lewie]

TelexFerra wrote...

OH come now, nothing is better than the flessshhhh....

Tell miranda that lol.

[In Exile]

Lisa_H wrote...

I got insulted by the better man dialogue. Okay for Shep, but not good enough for Miranda. Just one of the reasons I dislike the Jacob romance. But maybe man and women interpret it in different ways, many here have other interpretations. But I know that every woman I know that has played the game(and that is quite many) has seen it as an insult.

That's because the line is there to venerate mShep as being good enough for Miranda. Like all the other Shepard is a demi-god lines in the game, this one just with a specific gender hook.

[Eradyn]

Lisa_H wrote...

I got insulted by the better man dialogue. Okay for Shep, but not good enough for Miranda. Just one of the reasons I dislike the Jacob romance. But maybe man and women interpret it in different ways, many here have other interpretations. But I know that every woman I know that has played the game(and that is quite many) has seen it as an insult.

This.

I can see how others can interpret it differently...although that the writers intentionally LEFT it that way for femsheps doesn't make it much better.  Yeah, I get the whole "pumping maleShep's ego" thing, but seriously? No one paused for femSheps and said..."wow...this is REALLY EASY TO TAKE AS AN INSULT"?

Because that there are so many who HAVE seen it that way goes to show it really CAN be read that way, and legitimately.  Sure, maybe he misspoke...but that still doesn't win him points in my eyes.  Then again, in my eyes the Jacob "romance" was doomed by so many other reasons that even fixing this wouldn't have given him a chance with my femSheps. XD

At least the game is open enough to allow for various interpretations of the characters.  That's usually a good thing. ^^

[AdamNW]

Em23 wrote...

I think the writers were too concerned with making maleshep players feel like they are the "better man" to worry about what the sentence implies for femshep.

Or rather, the game was just telling you not to romance that terrible excuse for a person.

[tonnactus]

Its there to encourage male players to romance miranda,thats all. Like the stupid ass shots.

[Darc_Requiem]

I never understood this controversy in the slightest. He's saying that he's not willing to put up with her BS. I have a friend in particular that I've said the same thing about. I personally wouldn't be able to put up with her jealousy and double standards so I've told my other friends that her boyfriend is better man than I am. It's nice way of saying he's willing to up with BS that I wouldn't stand for.

Also why is this line always brought up? How come know every mentions how Jacob actually asks how Shepard is doing instead treating her like the ships psychiatrist? No one seems to mention that Jacob is the only love interest that will tell Shepard that he loves her as well. Does finding a diplomatic way to call Miranda a "witch" nullify all that?

Modifié par Darc_Requiem, 29 août 2010 - 06:09 .

[Sand King]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

I never understood this controversy in the slightest. He's saying that he's not willing to put with her BS. I have a friend in particular that I've said the same thing about. I couldn't personally wouldn't be able to put up with her jealousy and double standards so I've told my other friends that her boyfriend is better man than I am. It's nice way of saying he's willing to up with BS that I wouldn't stand for.

Also why is this line always brought up? How come know every mentions how Jacob actually asks how Shepard is doing instead treating her like the ships psychiatrist? No one seems to mention that Jacob is the only love interest that will tell Shepard that he loves her as well. Does finding a diplomatic way to call Miranda a "witch" nullify all that?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

[ciaweth]

Sand King wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

I never understood this controversy in the slightest. He's saying that he's not willing to put with her BS. I have a friend in particular that I've said the same thing about. I couldn't personally wouldn't be able to put up with her jealousy and double standards so I've told my other friends that her boyfriend is better man than I am. It's nice way of saying he's willing to up with BS that I wouldn't stand for.

Also why is this line always brought up? How come know every mentions how Jacob actually asks how Shepard is doing instead treating her like the ships psychiatrist? No one seems to mention that Jacob is the only love interest that will tell Shepard that he loves her as well. Does finding a diplomatic way to call Miranda a "witch" nullify all that?

You took the words right out of my mouth.

Yes.  This.

[Eradyn]

There's nothing "diplomatic" about that line if you're femShep. It's just awkwardly stated and DOES have negative implications if you're a femShep. That said, it CAN also be given a more positive spin, as others have done. There are ways of calling Miranda a "witch" that would not also have the unfortunate implications that particular line has, but BW went the lazy route of just having the maleShep ego-stroking line be applicable for both. To Jacob's detriment, sadly, but then BW just wasn't very kind to the guy.

[Darc_Requiem]

@Eradyn



Ego stroking? Not really, I used Jacob's exact phrase before in actual life and it's nice way of me calling another guy whipped because he stands for nonsense from his "witch" of a girlfriend that no man should stand for.