359 réponses à ce sujet

[Eradyn]

@Darc_Requiem



Glad it worked out for you. Doesn't render the point moot, however.

[ciaweth]

Honestly, if femShep is the kind of person who takes offense at that line because she thinks it reflects on her, she's got narcissism and insecurity issues.

[Shadow_broker]

Miranda dumped him and he didn't wanna admit it to keep his loins



Simple

[Lisa_H]

ciaweth wrote...

Honestly, if femShep is the kind of person who takes offense at that line because she thinks it reflects on her, she's got narcissism and insecurity issues.

Considering how many women have seen it as a insult(me among them) it seems like  that choice of dialogue was a bad one. But as I said before maybe men and women interpret it differently. I never heard a woman use the line "he requires a better woman" when talking about an ex-boyfriend they don't like.

[Hex of Hell]

Darc_Requiem wrote...
Also why is this line always brought up? How come know every mentions how Jacob actually asks how Shepard is doing instead treating her like the ships psychiatrist? No one seems to mention that Jacob is the only love interest that will tell Shepard that he loves her as well. Does finding a diplomatic way to call Miranda a "witch" nullify all that?

I wasn't aware that it is always brought up, but I would imagine it's because so many other people found it insulting as well? I love how people keep mentioning in other posts how "what he really meant is this" or "what he really meant is that", as though that were somehow relevant. If I tell my girlfriend I hate how she dresses, thinking secretly in my head that I'd prefer she took everything off - woohoo!- that doesn't somehow alter the statement to become not insulting unless she has ultra cool, mind reading powers. All he says is that Miranda requires a better man than he, and lets it dangle there, like underpants on the laundry line, flapping unapologetically in Shepard's unimpressed face. Like I said, Shepard may or may not have ever even spoken to Miranda about her personal life. She may not know Miranda is a witch, high maintenance, or anything else. My problem wasn't with whether Jacob was intentionally insulting Shepard. My problem was that what he says ends up being insulting to Shepard. Those are two different things.

And as for him being nice to you, I would say that it does get cancelled out, because he will likely never get the chance. A man saying to a woman that his ex required a better man is going to cause her to wonder how much worse a man he is and why she doesn't also require one better. Yada yada yada, she takes Garrus to her cabin instead.

[Eber]

What about a man saying "Already, I'm not big on pushing these talks, Shepard"? Now that I took as an insult. Apparantly it's a chore to talk to Shepard. Atleast the others have the decency to pretent they are busy when I'm hassling them.

[Hex of Hell]

Eber wrote...

What about a man saying "Already, I'm not big on pushing these talks, Shepard"? Now that I took as an insult. Apparantly it's a chore to talk to Shepard. Atleast the others have the decency to pretent they are busy when I'm hassling them.

Yeah, I know others have mentioned that as well. I always found that rather off putting as well. Not outright insulting, but kind of an "o-kaaaaay:blink:" moment. Especially when Shep is the hero of the galaxy and everything. Did he ever think that I might have something to talk about, rather than trying to force him into talking? Come to think of it, so much for someone saying he didn't treat Shep like his personal shrink. He only talks to me when he has something on his mind. When I need to share, it's tough beans.

[Nightwriter]

It's a great line to hear as manShep, but awful as femShep.

When Jacob says it I always envision a Sims-type scene where a red minus sign appears over femShep's head and she slaps Jacob and walks away and Jacob cries.

[Pacifien]

Eradyn wrote...
There's nothing "diplomatic" about that line if you're femShep. It's just awkwardly stated and DOES have negative implications if you're a femShep.*snip*

Only if female Shepard feels like she's in some sort of competition with Miranda. Jacob's comment is about Miranda, not Shepard. He's not telling a male Shepard that he's the better man who should pursue Miranda. He's not telling a female Shepard that she is a lesser woman in comparison to Miranda. At this point, it's not even a comment Jacob is making to his new romantic interest -- the romance doesn't really start until after you complete his loyalty mission, otherwise you can't complete it.

So each person has a choice at this point. If you want to take Jacob's comment about Miranda as some veiled comment about your Shepard, then that's how it goes. Or your Shepard can ignore the comment and pursue the romance. Afterall, it's Shepard who must instigate, not Jacob. Perhaps Shepard wants to show Jacob that he sells himself short in regards to his worth in relationships.

But do think the line is meant more for a male Shepard anyway. I imagine a line to a female Shepard would have been more along the lines of "Miranda's a complicated woman." But then maybe people will take offense that he thinks Shepard is simple in comparison, I don't know.

Anyway, I still don't do Jacob's romance, but that has nothing to do with Jacob and everything to do with female Shepard. The sleaze is strong with that one.

[Lovestories]

Yeah when I heard that line I was put off too. I was like what? but good enough for my Shep? Cheek! I don't like the line tbh
Edit: It made me assume he did something to hurt her  aswell =S

Modifié par Lovestories, 29 août 2010 - 07:55 .

[PillarBiter]

Jacob's a douche. what else is new?

[Nightwriter]

Pacifien wrote...

Eradyn wrote...
There's nothing "diplomatic" about that line if you're femShep. It's just awkwardly stated and DOES have negative implications if you're a femShep.*snip*

Only if female Shepard feels like she's in some sort of competition with Miranda. Jacob's comment is about Miranda, not Shepard. He's not telling a male Shepard that he's the better man who should pursue Miranda. He's not telling a female Shepard that she is a lesser woman in comparison to Miranda. At this point, it's not even a comment Jacob is making to his new romantic interest -- the romance doesn't really start until after you complete his loyalty mission, otherwise you can't complete it.

So each person has a choice at this point. If you want to take Jacob's comment about Miranda as some veiled comment about your Shepard, then that's how it goes. Or your Shepard can ignore the comment and pursue the romance. Afterall, it's Shepard who must instigate, not Jacob. Perhaps Shepard wants to show Jacob that he sells himself short in regards to his worth in relationships.

But do think the line is meant more for a male Shepard anyway. I imagine a line to a female Shepard would have been more along the lines of "Miranda's a complicated woman." But then maybe people will take offense that he thinks Shepard is simple in comparison, I don't know.

Anyway, I still don't do Jacob's romance, but that has nothing to do with Jacob and everything to do with female Shepard. The sleaze is strong with that one.

I agree it seemed like they just forgot to change the line for femShep.

Still, it does inspire an almost universal negative reaction in women, and for good reason. The look Jacob and Miranda just shared, and the way Jacob says the line, makes it seem like he still cares for Miranda and he's not over her yet. It's definitely a relationship deterrent.

Whether it makes sense to you or not, it's perceived as passing judgment on Shepard. It's like he's placing Miranda on this pedestal and saying, yeah, I can never have that. But you, well...

Add to that the fact that your Shepard is forcibly turned into a sex kitten around Jacob, and it's easy to see why people are turned off the romance.

[TuringPoint]

In my eyes he was saying that he didn't ever manage to fully meet Miranda's expectations. If he didn't meet Shepard's, why would she be romancing him? I guess Shepard has different expectations, and is a little less stuck up, which isn't hard considering what Miranda can be like.



I don't think Jacob was saying he wasn't worthy of her, because she was so high class and he wasn't.



In the context, I took it to mean he didn't meet her expectations. She expected him to remember some promise she had made him and he didn't.

[Eradyn]

Alocormin wrote...

In my eyes he was saying that he didn't ever manage to fully meet Miranda's expectations. If he didn't meet Shepard's, why would she be romancing him? I guess Shepard has different expectations, and is a little less stuck up, which isn't hard considering what Miranda can be like.

I don't think Jacob was saying he wasn't worthy of her, because she was so high class and he wasn't.

In the context, I took it to mean he didn't meet her expectations. She expected him to remember some promise she had made him and he didn't.

He says it regardless if femShep romances him. But sound points, as are those offered by those on the other side of the aisle. ^^

ciaweth wrote...

Honestly, if femShep is the kind of
person who takes offense at that line because she thinks it reflects on
her, she's got narcissism and insecurity issues.

It's not about a person being narcissistic or insecure.  The line IS inherently insulting.  Whether the speaker meant it that way or not is an entirely different matter.  Personally, I don't think Jacob, as a character, meant it that way.  This is where the differences of perspective come in, I think.  There are those who focus on the line itself, which can certainly be insulting, and there are those who dig to see if Jacob really meant it that way or not.  Either way, someone is getting burned: Either Miranda or Shepard (or maybe both depending on how you read it). 

Personally, I wouldn't go for a guy who would make such a statement anyway.  An ex is an ex and I wouldn't like hearing my bf badmouthing past partners...since they could just as easily badmouth me.  And if they meant it as a passive insult to me, then shame on them.

Really, there is no "right" or "wrong" answer here.  People have different standards and the circumstances of such a line are important, if difficult, to discern.  The circumstances can change everything about the meaning and how willing someone is to look past it.  People need to just learn to live and let live and not get upset because "OMG SOMEONE ON ZE INTERNETZ HAS A DIFFERENT/WRONG OPINION!!11!"  People perceive things differently, some people like coke, others like pepsi.  Some people like the 360, others like the PS3.  Then you have the odd individuals who fall somewhere off the chart. XD

Modifié par Eradyn, 29 août 2010 - 08:29 .

[Count Viceroy]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

I never understood this controversy in the slightest. He's saying that he's not willing to put up with her BS. I have a friend in particular that I've said the same thing about. I personally wouldn't be able to put up with her jealousy and double standards so I've told my other friends that her boyfriend is better man than I am. It's nice way of saying he's willing to up with BS that I wouldn't stand for.

Also why is this line always brought up? How come know every mentions how Jacob actually asks how Shepard is doing instead treating her like the ships psychiatrist? No one seems to mention that Jacob is the only love interest that will tell Shepard that he loves her as well. Does finding a diplomatic way to call Miranda a "witch" nullify all that?

[Nightwriter]

Lol. We know Jacob isn't saying, "I'm not putting up with her BS" because of the way he says it.

"She... requires a better man than I." He sounds regretful, halting, solemn, a little hurt.

Not, "Whatevah, man, she be high-maintenance, nahmean, I don't need that sh*t." If that was the message he would've said, "We're just not right for each other." (which is what he should've said for femShep)

[Twilight_Princess]

Captain Hex wrote...


 All he says is that Miranda requires a better man than he, and lets it dangle there, like underpants on the laundry line, flapping unapologetically in Shepard's unimpressed face.

ROFL 

Modifié par Hyrule_Gal, 29 août 2010 - 08:43 .

[Terraneaux]

Nightwriter wrote...

Lol. We know Jacob isn't saying, "I'm not putting up with her BS" because of the way he says it.

"She... requires a better man than I." He sounds regretful, halting, solemn, a little hurt.

Not, "Whatevah, man, she be high-maintenance, nahmean, I don't need that sh*t." If that was the message he would've said, "We're just not right for each other." (which is what he should've said for femShep)

That's funny, because that's the impression I got from what he said.  He was about to say 'She is crazy and not functional in a  relationship.' but then realized that he was talking to his boss, so edited himself.  

[Sesshomaru47]

I always took that line to be that he still had feelings for her but felt he wasn't good enough. I guess with her constantly blathering on about perfect she is in nearly every conversation, it would dent any guys self esteem.

[Nightwriter]

Terraneaux wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Lol. We know Jacob isn't saying, "I'm not putting up with her BS" because of the way he says it.

"She... requires a better man than I." He sounds regretful, halting, solemn, a little hurt.

Not, "Whatevah, man, she be high-maintenance, nahmean, I don't need that sh*t." If that was the message he would've said, "We're just not right for each other." (which is what he should've said for femShep)

That's funny, because that's the impression I got from what he said.  He was about to say 'She is crazy and not functional in a  relationship.' but then realized that he was talking to his boss, so edited himself.  

And it would be different if they hadn't just exchanged a meaningful look that made it plain they still cared for each other a little, even if they both knew it couldn't work.

[CC-Tron]

Nightwriter wrote...

Terraneaux wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Lol. We know Jacob isn't saying, "I'm not putting up with her BS" because of the way he says it.

"She... requires a better man than I." He sounds regretful, halting, solemn, a little hurt.

Not, "Whatevah, man, she be high-maintenance, nahmean, I don't need that sh*t." If that was the message he would've said, "We're just not right for each other." (which is what he should've said for femShep)

That's funny, because that's the impression I got from what he said.  He was about to say 'She is crazy and not functional in a  relationship.' but then realized that he was talking to his boss, so edited himself.  

And it would be different if they hadn't just exchanged a meaningful look that made it plain they still cared for each other a little, even if they both knew it couldn't work.

Miranda had the sad meaningful look IMO , not Jacob. Jacob looked annoyed. Miranda showed all the signs of not moving on. Involving in herself in Jacob's business. "I always keep my promises". Jacob didn't even remember what the promise was and he didn't  seem to care much to remember .  I've never got the impression any where that Miranda meant anything more to Jacob than a fling. So yeah he was like whateva.

[Nightwriter]

CC-Tron wrote...

Miranda had the sad meaningful look IMO , not Jacob. Jacob looked annoyed. Miranda showed all the signs of not moving on. Involving in herself in Jacob's business. "I always keep my promises". Jacob didn't even remember what the promise was and he didn't  seem to care much to remember .  I've never got the impression any where that Miranda meant anything more to Jacob than a fling. So yeah he was like whateva.

Nah.

They both share a meaningful look, then Jacob looks down, like a "whoa, this is heavy" moment.

I honestly think it's Jacob who hasn't moved on, Jacob's the one who talks about Miranda, Miranda never talks about Jacob. There's the "sour grapes" comment, and after you say that he basically tells you to get lost.

[CC-Tron]

Nightwriter wrote...

CC-Tron wrote...

Miranda had the sad meaningful look IMO , not Jacob. Jacob looked annoyed. Miranda showed all the signs of not moving on. Involving in herself in Jacob's business. "I always keep my promises". Jacob didn't even remember what the promise was and he didn't  seem to care much to remember .  I've never got the impression any where that Miranda meant anything more to Jacob than a fling. So yeah he was like whateva.

Nah.

They both share a meaningful look, then Jacob looks down, like a "whoa, this is heavy" moment.

I honestly think it's Jacob who hasn't moved on, Jacob's the one who talks about Miranda, Miranda never talks about Jacob. There's the "sour grapes" comment, and after you say that he basically tells you to get lost.

The only time Jacob talks about his relationship with Miranda is when Shepard questions him about it. He should tell Shepard to get lost. Like he says it none of his/her business. The sour grapes comment deserved the brush off. Miranda didn't have to talk about Jake. She meddled in his personal business and kept a long forgotten promise she made a loooong time ago.

Yeah she didn't move on.

Modifié par CC-Tron, 29 août 2010 - 10:16 .

[Halo Quea]

This was talked out in previous threads awhile ago. It's actually a very mature comment, so it doesn't surprise me that it went over the heads of a few and offended others.



The only reason why any Fem-Shepards would feel offended by the comment was if they felt they were somehow in direct competition with Miranda or unsure about how Jacob feels about her. There's really no other reason for it. I suppose it doesn't help that Jacob never gives any real details as to what happened between himself and Miranda, but it isn't hard to guess.



Sometimes men get the strangest aspersions cast on us when women misunderstand the meanings in things that we say. This is mostly because we just have different communication styles from each other. Jacob's comment is a perfect example of this. What Jacob said had absolutely NOTHING to do with Shepard, male or female. Yet some gamers were offended.



Look at the scenario. Jacob's father had been missing for 10 years and Miranda had information about the whereabouts of the Hugo Gernsback. Does she go in and tell Taylor about this? NO. Instead she practically turns it in into guessing game. Why play games with information like this? Haven't they worked together long enough to be able to share vital information with each other? Why would she manipulate him that way?



So yes, Miranda has serious issues, even TIM didn't like the way she went about it. During the mission you can hear the frustration in Taylor's voice. LOL! Poor Jacob was only expecting a ship wreck and a corpse to bury. Instead he's forced to confront the reality of his estranged father not only being alive, but the head of some brainwashed commune of women he's been abusing for the last decade. Now imagine that whole scenario playing out right in front of your commanding officer, and then going through the embarrassment of falsely accusing TIM (your boss of all people!) of being involved. Sheesh!!



After ALL OF THAT, how could anybody have misinterpreted Jacob's comment as him feeling unworthy of Miranda?