359 réponses à ce sujet

[Monochrome Wench]

From my perspective its a horrible line. If it were said slightly differently using a more specific term than better it would have been better. Want to make him seem flawed, but not second rate, and not comparing Femshep to Miranda negatively. Best to do it in a way that pretty much just says, he is just not her type. IMO Better lines would be things like:

"She requires a keener man than I"

"She requires a more determined man than I"

"She requires a more sophisticated man than I"

"She requires a more patient man than I"

"She requires a more tolerant man than I"



Of course I do not find him appealing at all so I'm probably going to see the worst of the line compared to someone else.

[Darc_Requiem]

Truthfully I think Male Shepard got the better romances in ME2. All of Femshep's romances have serious issues. Thane talks about his dead wife all the time. Garrus is woefully awkward, doesn't find Shepard attractive, talks incessantly about calibrations, and his ice breaker is talking about how he was rubbing skin plates with fellow officer to relive stress. Jacob's romance starts off with Shepard being Demi Moore from Disclosure with Jacob being Michael Douglas and it ends with lines ripped out of bad 70s porno.

[Festi]

From the little I know about galaxy... and from what I know about Mr. Taylor it would seem like more of a... omg that was... interesting... and she's a good person but... no ty... I mean... come on... "I thought you'd be taller"? What is she... Femshep O_O



Or we could just go with this!!!!!!!







Hypno Jacob demands that you like him and forget your silly nitpicking issues with a character you don't like anyway.

[Sand King]

Festi -1

World - 0

[Hex of Hell]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Truthfully I think Male Shepard got the better romances in ME2. All of Femshep's romances have serious issues. Thane talks about his dead wife all the time. Garrus is woefully awkward, doesn't find Shepard attractive, talks incessantly about calibrations, and his ice breaker is talking about how he was rubbing skin plates with fellow officer to relive stress. Jacob's romance starts off with Shepard being Demi Moore from Disclosure with Jacob being Michael Douglas and it ends with lines ripped out of bad 70s porno.

I completely agree with this. It seems to be a standard in BioWare games that the female's romances are, for the most part, more problematic than the male ones (Alistair being the only exception that I can think of). There's a big tendancy for romance options to be mooning over some love lost. Those that aren't are usually so awkward around your character that you know they probably haven't had a serious relationship with anyone before. I tend to find the male's love interests a bit more well rounded. Which sucks because I prefer playing as a female.

Modifié par Captain Hex, 30 août 2010 - 06:47 .

[upsettingshorts]

Eh. the female LI in ME2 aren't all that fantastic either when I think about it.

Miranda goes from being ice queen to talking about "love" in what seems like twenty minutes. It was tougher for me to suspend disbelief about this than it was for me to accept Shepard's resurrection from the dead.  This romance should have been motivated by lust, pure and simple, from both of them.

Jack is such a unique personality that she's more polarizing than, well, any LI I can think of. I couldn't tell you the first thing about any of the Jack romance paths because I never had the desire to explore them.  Though she also has the bonus of the Renegade quickie and the Paragon "romance" so that's pretty cool.

And Tali is an alien whose face you can't see.  I'd spend more time on this but I'm not a big Tali fan, as far as LI's go, either.  But from when I tried it out I found the it to be fairly well written and executed.  So that's a plus.

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 30 août 2010 - 06:54 .

[Lucky Thirteen]

I seem to recall a conversation with Miranda being amazed that Shepard can do all she can, that pretty much established Miranda < FemShep. Maybe it's just the earthbound background, I dunno. Regardless, femShep is better than Miranda, and if Jacob is good enough for femShep, where does that actually leave Miranda?



Confusing.



The line is just a pride boost for male Shepard, but can be read wrong when it's female Shepard. I did of course at first. I think of it now that Miranda probably emotional and mentally abused the poor guy. Unless male Shepard is around, Miranda is probably going to die a very lonely shrew because she'll never find anyone to meet her standards.



If you ask me, and no offense to the Miranda fans, but good guy Jacob deserves better than Miranda.

[Festi]

Maybe developers think women like men who are deep and emotional and the only way they know how to do that is to make them talk about lost loves. In my opinion though, once you get past a few of the less well thought out lines Jacob's romance is a nice break from the awkward/lost love sort of thing. I really like how he lets Shepard talk about herself and the way he says she pushes his buttons is pretty cute.



But that's me... I don't really not like any of the characters. Though I would have to agree that the male LI's seem to have a lot more thought put into them... I mean... if I could renegade kiss thane as Femshep maybe he'd stop talking about Irikah... which I probably wouldn't do if it was an option because then I would feel bad... renegade usually makes me feel bad ;-;

[didymos1120]

Lucky Thirteen wrote...

I seem to recall a conversation with Miranda being amazed that Shepard can do all she can, that pretty much established Miranda < FemShep.

No.  It doesn't establish that. It seems to, superficially, as Miranda does say stuff about how she lacks whatever it is that makes people want to follow Shep, or that Shep is the best humanity has to offer. However, none of that is truly about Shep. It's certainly not the ME equivalent of an "IT'S OVER 9000!" style power-ranking.  I mean, yeah, Shep is the hero of the tale and all that, so in some meta-sense Shep > All, but as Miranda herself says, it's not a competition.

What that talk really establishes is that Miranda feels that her achievements don't really "count" because she was designed, whereas Shep achieved everything without any of that, and without the advantages of Miranda's wealth and pricey education.  She's also not amazed, as though Shep shouldn't be able to excel.  She's impressed (her own words) with Shep's skill and confessing that she hadn't really been giving Shep as much credit as deserved. Big difference.

Maybe it's just the earthbound background, I dunno.
 

Not only is it not that one background, it's also not just FemShep that gets to hear Miranda say that.  The backgrounds merely alter a tiny part of one line.

Modifié par didymos1120, 30 août 2010 - 07:40 .

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Pacifien wrote...

I see a lot of people bring up that line as evidence that Jacob is a horrible romance option. I interpreted the line differently. More like "Miranda is high maintenance and I'm not the man who's going to deal with that ****."

Yeah. Jacobs subtext is even gentler, he communicates well that he's just not prepared to face what Miranda is.

Easy to miss.

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 30 août 2010 - 10:28 .

[Nightwriter]

In Exile wrote...

Halo Quea wrote...

I'll say it again, it's a very mature comment.

It's not a statement about his own worthiness, or placing anyone(least of all Miranda) on a pedestal. It's a statement about the kind of person Ms Lawson IS.

A better man perhaps would look past all of her BS and manipulation. He'd have to.

You're completely right. It's like that time I told my coworker about how uptight and useless my manager is by pointing out how she deserved a better employee than me. It conveyed everything about the situation: how by literally demeaning myself, I was instead implying she was useless.

Rofl.

[tonnactus]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Miranda dumped him and he didn't wanna admit it to keep his loins

Simple

I doubt it.Miranda was the one who jumped in his pants in galaxy.

[Lewie]

Monochrome Wench wrote...

From my perspective its a horrible line. If it were said slightly differently using a more specific term than better it would have been better. Want to make him seem flawed, but not second rate, and not comparing Femshep to Miranda negatively. Best to do it in a way that pretty much just says, he is just not her type. IMO Better lines would be things like:
"She requires a keener man than I"
"She requires a more determined man than I"
"She requires a more sophisticated man than I"
"She requires a more patient man than I"
"She requires a more tolerant man than I"

Of course I do not find him appealing at all so I'm probably going to see the worst of the line compared to someone else.

This thread is just lol.

I tried to imagine him saying these and its better even with the undertone which has in the first place brought so many conflicting opinions.

"She requires a keener man than I" This is basically him saying he's not interested lol.
"She requires a more determined man than I" Could work but is confusing slightly.
"She requires a more sophisticated man than I" He is still demeaning himself. Sod refinement lol.
"She requires a more patient man than I" This works too.
"She requires a more tolerant man than I" This fixes the hole issue lol.

[Caihn]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Miranda dumped him and he didn't wanna admit it to keep his loins

Simple

^this

[Darc_Requiem]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Eh. the female LI in ME2 aren't all that fantastic either when I think about it.

Miranda goes from being ice queen to talking about "love" in what seems like twenty minutes. It was tougher for me to suspend disbelief about this than it was for me to accept Shepard's resurrection from the dead.  This romance should have been motivated by lust, pure and simple, from both of them.

Jack is such a unique personality that she's more polarizing than, well, any LI I can think of. I couldn't tell you the first thing about any of the Jack romance paths because I never had the desire to explore them.  Though she also has the bonus of the Renegade quickie and the Paragon "romance" so that's pretty cool.

And Tali is an alien whose face you can't see.  I'd spend more time on this but I'm not a big Tali fan, as far as LI's go, either.  But from when I tried it out I found the it to be fairly well written and executed.  So that's a plus.

Well I disagree with you on the Tali romance. Granted Shepard doesn't get to see her face, but unlike the other LIs, Tali flat tells Shepard that she's been interested in him since original game. She also says that she didn't he'd be interesting because of all the baggage that comes along with her being Quarian. While other romances in the games seen like they came out of nowhere, Tali's has the advantage of her knowning Shepard for a long period of time, pining for him, and having a Freudian slip that lets Shepard know that she wants to be more than friends.

Jack's romance actually played out better than I thought. It's certainly worked out better than Miranda's. Granted it makes her the tough girl that is soft on the inside cliche but Shepard has to break down her walls and when she comes to Shepards quarters with crying with her mascera running you it seems like a genuine moment.

Miranda's romance is the worst for Maleshep but even so I still think its better than any of femsheps. Miranda's plays out similarly to takes with her being a hard ass who has walls for Shepard to break down. With Jack, it seems like with each conversation she's slowly let down her guard. Miranda is cold and business like until you save her sister. Then she decides she wants to have sex with you where the whole crew can see. Seriously walk around Normandy. There are windows to the engine room all over the ship. Shepard has a bed in his quarters, she has bed in hers but she wants the whole ship to know . I like Kasumi's comments on the Shepard/Lawson hook up.

[Nightwriter]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Then she decides she wants to have sex with you where the whole crew can see. Seriously walk around Normandy. There are windows to the engine room all over the ship. Shepard has a bed in his quarters, she has bed in hers but she wants the whole ship to know . I like Kasumi's comments on the Shepard/Lawson hook up.

Oh God. Not this sh*t again.

Would people get over the whole engine room thing already. An assertive woman wants to have sex with you in a well lit place and no one can handle it, ooh, oh no, exhibitionism.

Listen to me, if I want to take you into the engine room and bang you I'm damn well going to take you into the engine room and bang you. I don't have to explain jack sh*t. I'm a woman, I don't need a reason. It doesn't have to make any kind of sense whatsoever. If I tell you to strip and wait for me in an ice cream parlor supply closet with pudding and a top hat I expect you to be there. No questions. Get on the floor. Make sure your top hat doesn't fall off. No talking.

[Christmas Ape]

I'm a woman, I don't need a reason.

On the subject of "Oh God, not this sh*t again"...

[Nightwriter]

It's perfectly true.

[Killjoy Cutter]

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Eh. the female LI in ME2 aren't all that fantastic either when I think about it.

Miranda goes from being ice queen to talking about "love" in what seems like twenty minutes. It was tougher for me to suspend disbelief about this than it was for me to accept Shepard's resurrection from the dead.  This romance should have been motivated by lust, pure and simple, from both of them.

Jack is such a unique personality that she's more polarizing than, well, any LI I can think of. I couldn't tell you the first thing about any of the Jack romance paths because I never had the desire to explore them.  Though she also has the bonus of the Renegade quickie and the Paragon "romance" so that's pretty cool.

And Tali is an alien whose face you can't see.  I'd spend more time on this but I'm not a big Tali fan, as far as LI's go, either.  But from when I tried it out I found the it to be fairly well written and executed.  So that's a plus.

Well I disagree with you on the Tali romance. Granted Shepard doesn't get to see her face, but unlike the other LIs, Tali flat tells Shepard that she's been interested in him since original game. She also says that she didn't he'd be interesting because of all the baggage that comes along with her being Quarian. While other romances in the games seen like they came out of nowhere, Tali's has the advantage of her knowning Shepard for a long period of time, pining for him, and having a Freudian slip that lets Shepard know that she wants to be more than friends.

Jack's romance actually played out better than I thought. It's certainly worked out better than Miranda's. Granted it makes her the tough girl that is soft on the inside cliche but Shepard has to break down her walls and when she comes to Shepards quarters with crying with her mascera running you it seems like a genuine moment.

Miranda's romance is the worst for Maleshep but even so I still think its better than any of femsheps. Miranda's plays out similarly to takes with her being a hard ass who has walls for Shepard to break down. With Jack, it seems like with each conversation she's slowly let down her guard. Miranda is cold and business like until you save her sister. Then she decides she wants to have sex with you where the whole crew can see. Seriously walk around Normandy. There are windows to the engine room all over the ship. Shepard has a bed in his quarters, she has bed in hers but she wants the whole ship to know . I like Kasumi's comments on the Shepard/Lawson hook up.

I've shied away from Miranda and Jack so far.  What does Kasumi say?

[Killjoy Cutter]

Nightwriter wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Then she decides she wants to have sex with you where the whole crew can see. Seriously walk around Normandy. There are windows to the engine room all over the ship. Shepard has a bed in his quarters, she has bed in hers but she wants the whole ship to know . I like Kasumi's comments on the Shepard/Lawson hook up.

Oh God. Not this sh*t again.

Would people get over the whole engine room thing already. An assertive woman wants to have sex with you in a well lit place and no one can handle it, ooh, oh no, exhibitionism.

Listen to me, if I want to take you into the engine room and bang you I'm damn well going to take you into the engine room and bang you. I don't have to explain jack sh*t. I'm a woman, I don't need a reason. It doesn't have to make any kind of sense whatsoever. If I tell you to strip and wait for me in an ice cream parlor supply closet with pudding and a top hat I expect you to be there. No questions. Get on the floor. Make sure your top hat doesn't fall off. No talking.

"She... requires a better man."

[Vhira]

I really don't like pudding. I suppose you require a better man than I.

[Mister Mida]

@OP: I never really thought about it, but you make a valid point.

[Mondo47]

Nightwriter wrote...

Darc_Requiem wrote...

Then she decides she wants to have sex with you where the whole crew can see. Seriously walk around Normandy. There are windows to the engine room all over the ship. Shepard has a bed in his quarters, she has bed in hers but she wants the whole ship to know . I like Kasumi's comments on the Shepard/Lawson hook up.

Oh God. Not this sh*t again.

Would people get over the whole engine room thing already. An assertive woman wants to have sex with you in a well lit place and no one can handle it, ooh, oh no, exhibitionism.

Listen to me, if I want to take you into the engine room and bang you I'm damn well going to take you into the engine room and bang you. I don't have to explain jack sh*t. I'm a woman, I don't need a reason. It doesn't have to make any kind of sense whatsoever. If I tell you to strip and wait for me in an ice cream parlor supply closet with pudding and a top hat I expect you to be there. No questions. Get on the floor. Make sure your top hat doesn't fall off. No talking.

You're right, Night - if we want to say go in a public place, we can. It's down to us. No need for a reason. Maybe it is Miranda's thing, though... somewhere where they might get interrupted... and it is the general territory of her two main rivals for Shep's affections on the ship, so maybe there's an element of pissing on a rival too - who can say? Either way, it doesn't really mean, as you put it so well there, jack sh*t. People get off on different things, and it's not something you can judge in this case.

You've now got me whistling You Can Leave Your Hat On, Night - just add the pudding

[Graz73]

I didn't know that people put this much thought into one line of dialogue.

A couple people here posted that maybe Jacob broke Miranda's heart... I took it far differently.

I played ME Galaxy. For most of the game, Miranda is telling Jacob what to do, and who to shoot in holographic form. At the very end, she shows up in his room with champagne.

Later, she was Jacob's boss again at Project Lazarus.

If MaleShep romances Miranda, she tells him that SHE will get him when she is ready for some lovin'.

She likes calling the shots and controlling/using people.

So, I'd say that she was just "rewarding" Jacob/using him for some sex. Maybe she had feelings for him, but that is never shown. It seemed like she thought she was too good for him, except as a play thing.

Modifié par Graz73, 30 août 2010 - 02:12 .

[Nightwriter]

Mondo47 wrote...

You're right, Night - if we want to say go in a public place, we can. It's down to us. No need for a reason. Maybe it is Miranda's thing, though... somewhere where they might get interrupted... and it is the general territory of her two main rivals for Shep's affections on the ship, so maybe there's an element of pissing on a rival too - who can say? Either way, it doesn't really mean, as you put it so well there, jack sh*t. People get off on different things, and it's not something you can judge in this case.

You've now got me whistling You Can Leave Your Hat On, Night - just add the pudding

See. Mondo understands.

In reality, though, I honestly just think they chose the engine room because they thought male gamers would find it cool. Or hot. Whatever. I really don't think they put much thought into it. Not as much as we are, anyway. I think we're looking for meaning in a pretty meaningless design choice.

Vhira wrote...

I really don't like pudding. I suppose you require a better man than I.

Who said anything about eating it.