175 réponses à ce sujet

[SOLID_EVEREST]

nhsk wrote...

"Not all qunari have horns"

No, but they also said that it is very rare for a qunari to not have horns and those born without it are seen as special, akin to be born for some greater purpose.

So 1 in a 1000 qunari does not have horns.

Then why the h*ll do every Quinari in Ferelden--at least from what we've seen--not have horns? They simply tacked this on, and I wish they at least admitted it instead of saying this and that to cover it up. If they could point to a single codex that mentions this, I would be more than pleased. I mean even Sten's fade Quinari didn't have horns, and neither did the Quinari mercenaries. Since so many have horns, why not the ones that are in Ferelden...

[Schwadragon]

nhsk wrote...

"Not all qunari have horns"

No, but they also said that it is very rare for a qunari to not have horns and those born without it are seen as special, akin to be born for some greater purpose.

So 1 in a 1000 qunari does not have horns.

On the other hand, the Qunari without horns are also the ones that tend to travel to other lands, so someone who lived away from Qunari lands would be more likely to see a hornless Qunari than a horned one.

[kcwME]

nhsk wrote...

"Not all qunari have horns"

No, but they also said that it is very rare for a qunari to not have horns and those born without it are seen as special, akin to be born for some greater purpose.

So 1 in a 1000 qunari does not have horns.

IIRC, you got it backwards. Horned Qunari are rare...I think.


*goes to check*

EDIT: Nope,  I'm wrong. Horned qunari are the norm.

Modifié par kcwME, 29 août 2010 - 06:04 .

[Trekna]

retcon, look it up.



On a serious note...



The changes in art style also bring a closer parallel between a race and its corrupted darkspawn counterparts. Before knowing that Ogres came from a Broodmother that was a Qunari was sort of an .. 'ok' ... type thing. Now with the change it's easier to see an ogre as a corrupted/tainted qunari

[Dave of Canada]

nhsk wrote...

So 1 in a 1000 qunari does not have horns.

Don't quote me on this but I thought many Qunari rip / cut their horns off when they quit the Qun or whatever.

[CrookedAsylum]

I don't blame you for thinking the horned ones are rare, though, considering we've seen none in Fereldan and a bunch of mercenaries who lack them.



A seemingly throw-away explanation was tacked on for that too, though. Devs said the Tal-Vashoth cut off their horns, and they don't know why.



...

Things would've been so much more believable if horned Qunari were the rare ones.

[nhsk]

Dave of Canada wrote...

nhsk wrote...

So 1 in a 1000 qunari does not have horns.

Don't quote me on this but I thought many Qunari rip / cut their horns off when they quit the Qun or whatever.

That is something else than being born hornless.

Yes, they said some qunari who abandon the Qun remove their horns for unknown reasons.

[Krytheos]

Celticon wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I just think they tacked on those horns at the last minute. I have no recollection of them ever saying Quinari have horns in any of the codexes. I even remember reading the one about the Quinari, which just stated that they are bronze skinned giants.

If anything, the Quinari are already somewhat evil. I mean they are always at war, which doesn't ring "good people" to me at least. Even Sten says that they will attack Ferelden, and they don't seem to have any ties with Ferelden, so that is definitely out of the blue.

In addition, none of the Qunari encountered ingame had horns. Sten's buddies (in the Fade), all the Qunari mercenaries (Kadan Fe, etc), and Armaas (Silverite mines).

Actually, those can be explained quite well. Those who have abadoned the Qun -- Tal'Vashoth -- signify abadonment/desertion by ripping off their horns. I forget what Mary Kirby said precisely, but hornless Qunari are uncommon, but not unheard of; essentially, they are the one's with a 'special' destiny.

In essence, a Tal'Vashoth who rips off his or her horns essentiallyi s saying 'I make my own destiny.' The horns contain no bone structure as well, so it's entirely possible the Kadan Fe and Qunari Mercenaries did, in fact, have horns but ripped them off to formerly signify their denial of the Qun. As for why his buddies don't have horns, it would make sense that they don't, as being hornless is not 'rare' but simply uncommon. It is like uncommon loot in Dungeon Siege; you can come across a lot of that uncommon loot easily enough, not because you're lucky, perse, but because it's not 'common', which is the usual. So it would be unusual somewhat, but not to the point where everyone is surprised when a qunari is born without horns.

Those that are are said to have a special destiny, but that could mean anything. Mercenaries aren't part of the qun anymore, as well, because the qunari are an effecient species, and hiring themselves out as mercenaries is, likely to them, an utterly ridiculous idea unless you are Tal'Vashoth. If you're a hornless Tal'Vashoth, really you don't -need- to rip off your horns, becuase you don't have any. If you have horns, then you rip them off. Simple, really, as the horns do not have bone structure within them, according to the lore Mary Kirby and others discussed.


Really, the qunari aren't being demonized as I see it; they're being shown as they truly are, vs. the one's we -thought- we knew were the norm of qunari society.

Modifié par Krytheos, 29 août 2010 - 06:16 .

[kcwME]

Lol. Nvm that first part, I was being silly.

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I don't blame you for thinking the horned ones are rare, though, considering we've seen none in Fereldan and a bunch of mercenaries who lack them.

A seemingly throw-away explanation was tacked on for that too, though. Devs said the Tal-Vashoth cut off their horns, and they don't know why.

...
Things would've been so much more believable if horned Qunari were the rare ones.

Yeah, that's what I was thinking. I'm sure they'll fiddle around with lore enough that it at least makes some sense. I hope.

Modifié par kcwME, 29 août 2010 - 06:15 .

[nhsk]

The artistic department was bored and BW staff went to Blizzcon for a crash course in how to Retcon.

[kcwME]

jon, I know that's just a typo but it somehow sounds even more awesome.

[Schwadragon]

jonv1234 wrote...

Perhaps this hasbeen hypothesized already, perhaps the hors are a mark of honor among their people, and are removed upon exile, or some similar event.

Well, it is mentioned that Qunari who abandon their homes tend to remove their horns, although we don't know exactly why yet.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Krytheos wrote...

Celticon wrote...

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

I just think they tacked on those horns at the last minute. I have no recollection of them ever saying Quinari have horns in any of the codexes. I even remember reading the one about the Quinari, which just stated that they are bronze skinned giants.

If anything, the Quinari are already somewhat evil. I mean they are always at war, which doesn't ring "good people" to me at least. Even Sten says that they will attack Ferelden, and they don't seem to have any ties with Ferelden, so that is definitely out of the blue.

In addition, none of the Qunari encountered ingame had horns. Sten's buddies (in the Fade), all the Qunari mercenaries (Kadan Fe, etc), and Armaas (Silverite mines).

Actually, those can be explained quite well. Those who have abadoned the Qun -- Tal'Vashoth -- signify abadonment/desertion by ripping off their horns. I forget what Mary Kirby said precisely, but hornless Qunari are uncommon, but not unheard of; essentially, they are the one's with a 'special' destiny.

In essence, a Tal'Vashoth who rips off his or her horns essentiallyi s saying 'I make my own destiny.' The horns contain no bone structure as well, so it's entirely possible the Kadan Fe and Qunari Mercenaries did, in fact, have horns but ripped them off to formerly signify their denial of the Qun. As for why his buddies don't have horns, it would make sense that they don't, as being hornless is not 'rare' but simply uncommon. It is like uncommon loot in Dungeon Siege; you can come across a lot of that uncommon loot easily enough, not because you're lucky, perse, but because it's not 'common', which is the usual. So it would be unusual somewhat, but not to the point where everyone is surprised when a qunari is born without horns.

Those that are are said to have a special destiny, but that could mean anything. Mercenaries aren't part of the qun anymore, as well, because the qunari are an effecient species, and hiring themselves out as mercenaries is, likely to them, an utterly ridiculous idea unless you are Tal'Vashoth. If you're a hornless Tal'Vashoth, really you don't -need- to rip off your horns. If you have horns, then you rip them off. Simple, really, as the horns do not have bone structure within them, according to the lore Mary Kirby and others discussed.


Really, the qunari aren't being demonized as I see it; they're being shown as they truly are, vs. the one's we -thought- we knew were the norm of qunari society.

I don't care that the explanation isn't all that great. The only thing I hate was that it wasn't mentioned in any of the codexes, none of the Quinari we meet have horns, so that just flashes all kinds of lights saying that its just been tacked on.

[Krytheos]

Not entirely, no. It's not 'tacked on' because it makes sense. Sure you can call it a retcon, but mercenary qunari are no longer part of the Qun; the only qunari we meet are Sten and his brothers of the Beresaad, who are made out to, in fact, have a special destiny and are hornless because of this. Those qunari born without horns do, in essence, have a special destiny, and the majority of qunari we meet are Tal'Vashoth in Origins and Awakening.



Yes, they don't get a mention in the Codexes, which is where I will agree with you, but the rest doesn't feel tacked on. Retcon or not, it makes a good deal of sense, because until DA2, we haven't really met a qunari with horns; the majority of qunari we meet are mercenaries, and qunari who have abadoned the qun.

[habitat 67]

Yes, all 3 of them.

[Arttis]

I am glad I blocked that image HA.

[kcwME]

...I didn't even know I could block it. *headdesk*

[Lord_Valandil]

Arttis wrote...

I am glad I blocked that image HA.

How do you block it?

[Dave of Canada]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Arttis wrote...

I am glad I blocked that image HA.

How do you block it?

Adblock, if installed, will only require you to right-click and press "Block images from blahblah". It'll stop you from seeing it.

[AtreiyaN7]

The fact that they're warlike doesn't mean the qunari are evil. They have a unique philosophy that's alien to most races in Thedas, and I think some people are forgetting that in the game it was mentioned that the qunari actually give the people they subjugate a fair amount of freedom (not that I consider being invaded and conquered by a race of giants a good thing).

I think what's going on with the qunari now is similar to what happened with the Klingons in terms of character redesign. If you will recall, Klingons in Star Trek originally had smooth foreheads and basically looked like swarthy humans in TOS. When TNG rolled around, they had been completely redesigned. All of them suddenly had forehead plates, and the whole smooth-skinned Klingon thing was some sort Klingon state secret! Speaking of Klingons, I'd say that they and the qunari have societies that are roughly analogous to one another.

As for the qunari and their horns (or their lack thereof), the ones seen in Denerim and the rest of Ferelden can hardly be taken as representative of the entire race. How many qunari did we actually see in DA:O anyway, between 10-20? More? It still doesn't come close to, say, hundreds of thousands of them together in their homeland (not that I have any idea what their actual population size is).

Ever consider that the ones you saw in Ferelden didn't want to stand out particularly much? Sten and his small group were on a scouting mission. Perhaps the others you saw in the game were exiles and had them removed or were ostracized because they didn't have horns in the first place. ** EDIT ** Apparently horns are a dominant trait, so those without them are rare. ** END OF EDIT ** Also, as has been  pointed out by others previously, trolls (who have horns) spring forth from qunari broodmothers. Most darkspawn do seem to retain their basic racial traits, so I wouldn't find it out of line for qunari to have horns.

Ultimately, why get so worked up over a character redesign? I haven't seen any crying over the darkspawn redesign (well, not recently anyway). I'd worry more if I ever saw a hint of a Jar-Jar Binks-type character in the game. Thank the Maker that won't ever happen.

** EDIT #251252 ** Apparently, qunari WITHOUT horns are not actually rare according to a David Gaider post that was quoted later in this thread. It seems that having horns (or not having them) may in part have something to do with their caste system if I was reading things correctly. ** END OF EDIT **

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 30 août 2010 - 08:06 .

[joey_mork84]

@asdf returns: You, Ser, need a hobby.

[Krytheos]

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

The fact that they're warlike doesn't mean the qunari are evil. They have a unique philosophy that's alien to most races in Thedas, and I think some people are forgetting that in the game it was mentioned that the qunari actually give the people they subjugate a fair amount of freedom (not that I consider being invaded and conquered by a race of giants a good thing).

I think what's going on with the qunari now is similar to what happened with the Klingons in terms of character redesign. If you will recall, Klingons in Star Trek originally had smooth foreheads and basically looked like swarthy humans in TOS. When TNG rolled around, they had been completely redesigned. All of them suddenly had forehead plates, and the whole smooth-skinned Klingon thing was some sort Klingon state secret! Speaking of Klingons, I'd say that they and the qunari have societies that are roughly analogous to one another.

As for the qunari and their horns (or their lack thereof), the ones seen in Denerim and the rest of Ferelden can hardly be taken as representative of the entire race. How many qunari did we actually see in DA:O anyway, between 10-20? More? It still doesn't come close to, say, hundreds of thousands of them together in their homeland (not that I have any idea what their actual population size is).

Ever consider that the ones you saw in Ferelden didn't want to stand out particularly much? Sten and his small group were on a scouting mission. Perhaps the others you saw in the game were exiles and had them removed or were ostracized because they didn't have horns in the first place. Maybe having horns is a recessive trait. I'm sure that anyone could come up with other logical reasons why we haven't seen horns to date. Also, as has been  pointed out by others previously, trolls (who have horns) spring forth from qunari broodmothers. Most darkspawn do seem to retain their basic racial traits, so I wouldn't find it out of line for qunari to have horns.

Ultimately, why get so worked up over a character redesign? I haven't seen any crying over the darkspawn redesign (well, not recently anyway). I'd worry more if I ever saw a hint of a Jar-Jar Binks-type character in the game. Thank the Maker that won't ever happen.

Quick question. Have you ever heard of the manga Berserk? Trust me when I say Jar-Jar Binks is a fine character; one of the characters in that manga is named Puck..

...who is arguably much worse than Jar-Jar Binks.

[Dr. wonderful]

joey_mork84 wrote...

@asdf returns: You, Ser, need a hobby.

I this was his hobby?

[DNAgent]

joey_mork84 wrote...

@asdf returns: You, Ser, need a hobby.

Seeing as how he had more than 1 picture, I think he found one.