78 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Monica21 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Hardening Alistair is not making him any less compassionate. His epilogues as king have him appointing an elf councillor even when hardened, for instance, so in a sense his compassion is more effective. Hardening simply makes him stand up for himself more. That is a quality you'd want to help any friend develop, let alone one who's going to be king, no?

Unfortunately, it only makes him stand up for himself at the Landsmeet. Right up until that he'll be telling you he doesn't want to be king. His epilogue is better if you do make him king, and the reaction from Anora is more positive (after the Landsmeet) if you marry them and if he is hardened.

Not really.  His dialogue at Eamon's changes, and while he doesn't come out and say "I want to be king", he does complain about Loghain and Anora thinking they're the only ones who can fix things and how he doesn't trust her any more than her father.  That's a pretty big signal that he has shifted in his thinking about the kingship.

[Addai]

M-Taylor wrote...
After that, he's been on the throne every time. I know Anora probably is a more official and better ruler, but as an elf at heart (my favourite characters all happen to be elves.. I just always play elves, and the Dragon Age ones put a nice spin on their tale, and actually make them the underdogs. I love it!), Anora just isn't a suitable candinate.

As I said upthread, I don't consider Anora the better ruler by default.  With both Alistair and Anora, there's no reason to take what they say about themselves at face value, and the only recommendation for her otherwise comes from Eamon who calls her a "competent administrator" but wants to usurp her throne.  The nobles give her weight, but she is the incumbent and people like the status quo.  I agree that my elves have an especially jaundiced ear to Anora's self-promotion.

Female Mage Elf, romanced Alistair. Put a hardened Alistair on the throne alone, but couldn't give Alistair up. Did the ultimate sacrifice - my personal favourite ending and probably my canon.

Aw.   I probably consider my Surana also my canon, but I appear to be in minority who can accept the mistress ending as a good outcome.

[Monica21]

Addai67 wrote...

Monica21 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Hardening Alistair is not making him any less compassionate. His epilogues as king have him appointing an elf councillor even when hardened, for instance, so in a sense his compassion is more effective. Hardening simply makes him stand up for himself more. That is a quality you'd want to help any friend develop, let alone one who's going to be king, no?

Unfortunately, it only makes him stand up for himself at the Landsmeet. Right up until that he'll be telling you he doesn't want to be king. His epilogue is better if you do make him king, and the reaction from Anora is more positive (after the Landsmeet) if you marry them and if he is hardened.

Not really.  His dialogue at Eamon's changes, and while he doesn't come out and say "I want to be king", he does complain about Loghain and Anora thinking they're the only ones who can fix things and how he doesn't trust her any more than her father.  That's a pretty big signal that he has shifted in his thinking about the kingship.

Yes, I'd forgotten about that. Guess that comes with a six-month sabbatical from the game.

[philiposophy]

I'm currently doing my fourth playthrough and I've yet to not make Alistair king (at the Landsmeet, that is, on one he had a short but glorious reign by killing the archdemon). As this current playthrough will be my Loghain ending, I'm going to marry him off to Anora so he still gets the throne, even if he doesn't stay with my party.



But my most common and favourite choice is to make him king alone. Anora might be a more pragmatic and capable administrator (allegedly) but I don't think that necessarily makes Alistair a bad choice. Anora wants the crown because she wants power, while Alistair will step up to the plate out of a sense of duty. Anyway, Alistair isn't stupid, he'll be fine at ruling. He has people like Teagan, Eamon and even some of the other nobles you get assistance from (Alfstanna, Bryland etc) who can assist him. Plus if he's hardened, he stands up for himself more often, which removes any possibility of him becoming a puppet for Eamon, as Loghain and Anora claim.



Plus I love how he reacts when "the king" is called to make a speech after his election, "Oh! That would be me... um...", lol.

[Monica21]

philiposophy wrote...

I'm currently doing my fourth playthrough and I've yet to not make Alistair king (at the Landsmeet, that is, on one he had a short but glorious reign by killing the archdemon). As this current playthrough will be my Loghain ending, I'm going to marry him off to Anora so he still gets the throne, even if he doesn't stay with my party.

But my most common and favourite choice is to make him king alone. Anora might be a more pragmatic and capable administrator (allegedly) but I don't think that necessarily makes Alistair a bad choice. Anora wants the crown because she wants power, while Alistair will step up to the plate out of a sense of duty. Anyway, Alistair isn't stupid, he'll be fine at ruling. He has people like Teagan, Eamon and even some of the other nobles you get assistance from (Alfstanna, Bryland etc) who can assist him. Plus if he's hardened, he stands up for himself more often, which removes any possibility of him becoming a puppet for Eamon, as Loghain and Anora claim.

Plus I love how he reacts when "the king" is called to make a speech after his election, "Oh! That would be me... um...", lol.

In fairness to Anora, I don't see her as power hungry. She was raised to be Cailan's wife and did most of the ruling while he was king. Not only does she want to continue to do what she was raised to do, but something she is very good at. A hardened Alistair and Anora make a very good ruling couple.

As for Eamon... ugh. Unless you name yourself Chancellor, he's still Eamon's puppet. Marginally less so if hardened, but Alistair is the closest Eamon will ever get to the throne. I do not trust Eamon's motivations when it comes to Alistair.

Modifié par Monica21, 30 août 2010 - 04:47 .

[sylvanaerie]

I harden him and usually put him on the throne, with or without my PC. I have placed Anora solo a couple of times and I have married him to Anora twice. I never leave him unhardened, just the hardening takes place at different times in my games. If I want Anora on the throne (with or without my HNM) I leave him unhardened till after the Landsmeet. If I want him on the throne I harden him before. Regardless, my PC rules with him, is his BFF Chancellor or his mistress. I never leave it up to him alone up there with only that bastard Eamon guiding him.



All his life he has had "what you want doesn't matter" crammed down his throat.so I play the Landsmeet and his personal quest according to what I want the story to shape out to. (Who rules is the ONLY thing I know ahead of time what I will do) Everything else is a crap shoot as I play in the moment and respond however I feel the PC will



Kinda fun playing that way

[Cenwyn]

Playthrough #1-yes and ruling alone (big mistake) (unhardened)

Playthrough #2-yes and I ruled as queen with him (unhardened)

Playthrough #3-no, kept Anora queen and we run off together (unhardened)



Playthrough #4-Plan to harden Alistair and make him king alone (in romance with Zev)

Playthrough #5-plan to harden Alistair and make him king and rule with him

Playthrough#6-plan to harden Alistair, make him king and rule with Anora

Playthrough #7-plan to harden Alistair and not make him king (will be romancing him)



All other playthroughs I refuse to make him king because I like my romance and my man all to myself with the various Alistair tweak mods on my computer. As you can tell I love exploring different results and outcomes.

[LobselVith8]

For my elven mage Warden, I chose a personality hardened Alistair as King with Anora at his side. Alistair improves the lot of the elves in the city if he's chosen, and Anora wants to bring education and prosperity to Ferelden. Both of them are willing to give the Dalish the Hinterlands as their new homeland, improve the lot of mages, and are loved by the people. Although Alistair being a Grey Warden does shift the balance of power for the GWs, he does a tremendous amount of good as the new King.

[BlueMew]

Hmm, for me it's much like with the whole hardening thing. With my 'main' character I prefer Alistair unkinged and unhardened but still romanced (I like him just the way he is.)

There is just something very appealing about him being able to inspire a handful of beleaguered commoners to save a country and not using it for kingly purposes



But for the non-main characters I've had, well, it's sort of fun to rile up the nobles by putting the bastard-born guy on the throne. Still, that would pretty much require the hardening, because making him king while he really doesn't want to be seems a cruel thing to do.

[mdfitz2]

first i made anora queen cause alistair didnt want to.



then i made alistair king but he sacrifice d him self so now anora is queen.





then the same thing happened



then alistair and anora got married







i just realised anora always ends up in power in my playthroughs

[Trintrin86]

Addai67 wrote...
Aw.   I probably consider my Surana also my canon, but I appear to be in minority who can accept the mistress ending as a good outcome.

One of my fav playthroughs, I had my bad-**** Dalish elf put a hardened Alistair on the throne, married him to Anora, and told the blonde witch that she fully planned on "staying" with Alistair. Hehe.

I see nothing wrong with the mistress outcome either. And by all accounts Alistair ends up making an effective king if hardened (and a likable enough one even if her is not). Also...I severely dislike Anora and her conniving ways, I refuse to let her fully get her way.

[Addai]

Trintrin86 wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
Aw.   I probably consider my Surana also my canon, but I appear to be in minority who can accept the mistress ending as a good outcome.

One of my fav playthroughs, I had my bad-**** Dalish elf put a hardened Alistair on the throne, married him to Anora, and told the blonde witch that she fully planned on "staying" with Alistair. Hehe.

I see nothing wrong with the mistress outcome either. And by all accounts Alistair ends up making an effective king if hardened (and a likable enough one even if her is not). Also...I severely dislike Anora and her conniving ways, I refuse to let her fully get her way.

Yes, my 1st DEF did this as well.  I call it my Chani ending, if you are familiar with the Dune stuff.  Chani is his real wife, Irulan his wife in name.  The crucial diff being that Chani could bear a royal heir and my Warden can't.  So when I re-played her game, I had Alistair duel Loghain and that took care of the Anora problem.  Just can't imagine Alistair touching her.  Better to pick his own queen.

With my Surana character, I have it worked out that they find a queen who swings both ways and has her own mistress.  LOL

[Hayllee]

At first I didn't. This wasn't a matter of if I thought he'd make a good king though, it was that I didn't know about hardening him at the time and was unwilling to have my character become queen, so if I did the relationship would have to stop, and that was bull. The second time around I did harden him, so he became king, since Anora started getting on my nerves the second time. I think this time, however, I'll either just do it all and have both my character and Alistair rule, or have Anora rule again. Or I'll die. Depends.

[Liso66]

My multiple plays. I have had every possible scenario in regards to Alistair. He stayed a warden of I did not harden him. He makes for a terrible King otherwise. Married him off to my Cousland, Married him off to Anora, Made him king by himself and became his chancellor. etc etc etc..

After so many endings. Sadly, Bioware was kind of cruel when it comes to best case scenarios. None of which include any self desire in the end.

Harden Alistiar, Let Loghain live, lose Alistair as a friend or anything else because of Loghain. Have him married off to Anora, then let Loghain take the final blow.

In this end, Alistair and Anora are a very effective pairing and good monarchs. PC goes on to do their thing. Sadly, this is best cast scenario. Anything else doesn't really work out as optimally. 

Modifié par Liso66, 31 août 2010 - 01:34 .

[Addai]

I don't know that I'd call Alistair-Anora a best-case scenario. There are disadvantages to political marriages, particularly if the participants dislike each other. See, Cailan and Anora and the lack of little blonde brats running around the palace.

[KOKitten]

Twice I hardened him and convinced him to marry Anora. Loghain was recruited in those scenarios.

In one scenario Alistair was not hardened and although he had initially had agreed to marry Anora, refused after we decided to recruit Loghain. In that case he was executed.

[Elessara]

If I put Alistair on the throne then I always harden his personality. Mostly it's because of this one line he says about how he's fine with the idea of being king and he might actually be able to do some good.

An unhardened Alistair would still make a good king though not as good I think.

I don't think I've ever made him marry Anora. She might not be a bad ruler but I really can't trust someone who will stab you in the back in a heartbeat or betray her father for power. Which is what she does. If you agree to support her then she'll say that Loghain is crazy. If you don't agree to support her she supports Loghain. It's all about power for her.

That said I have put Anora on the throne alone. I have yet to spare Loghain because simply from an RP perspective it makes no sense to me

[Liso66]

Addai67 wrote...

I don't know that I'd call Alistair-Anora a best-case scenario. There are disadvantages to political marriages, particularly if the participants dislike each other. See, Cailan and Anora and the lack of little blonde brats running around the palace.

I am basing this off the end dialogue wrap up..  Regardless of personal opinion, it is a fact with in the game itself.

[Addai]

All of the epilogues are a decent rulership ending for Ferelden. Even unhardened Alistair, while not the most on top of things, doesn't appear to ruin the country.

[Stoomkal]

Addai67 wrote...

Hardening Alistair is not making him any less compassionate. His epilogues as king have him appointing an elf councillor even when hardened, for instance, so in a sense his compassion is more effective. Hardening simply makes him stand up for himself more. That is a quality you'd want to help any friend develop, let alone one who's going to be king, no?

...

I never harden Alistair and he always does those things in the epilogue slides. Appointing an Elven councillor, a better deal for city elves and Dalish, etc.

I think that the only difference may be in the personal slide, and in what happens if he is *not* a King.

Even if he is an "unhardened" King, he still keeps Anora in check, preventing the terrible outcomes if she rules alone.

[LobselVith8]

Stoomkal wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

Hardening Alistair is not making him any less compassionate. His epilogues as king have him appointing an elf councillor even when hardened, for instance, so in a sense his compassion is more effective. Hardening simply makes him stand up for himself more. That is a quality you'd want to help any friend develop, let alone one who's going to be king, no?

...

I never harden Alistair and he always does those things in the epilogue slides. Appointing an Elven councillor, a better deal for city elves and Dalish, etc.

I think that the only difference may be in the personal slide, and in what happens if he is *not* a King.

Even if he is an "unhardened" King, he still keeps Anora in check, preventing the terrible outcomes if she rules alone.

The only thing that happens if you harden Alistair is that he becomes more self-confidant. Instead of running away from his responsibilities as King, he makes a real effort to study governance and become a good King for the people, while an unhardened Alistair basically avoids all responsibility (which is all the more apparent if your Warden becomes Chancellor, and the court comes to a standstill when you leave the capital).

In Anora's defense, she does make an effort to bring education (by building a university in what's basically the equivalent of medieval times) and prosperity (by getting the capital rebuilt and restoring the nation financially) to Ferelden. Her epic fail comes from her treatment of the elves and not making any effort to understand how bad things are in the alienage, which is why I think placing her with a hardened (i.e. self-confident) Alistair as King is so important. Both of them get to do what they would do individually as ruler, and Ferelden becomes a better nation for it.

[Carmen_Willow]

When I am playing a male Warden, I harden Alistair and put him on the throne with Anora. I play as though the marriage issues are those of the middle ages when none married for love and most married for financial or political gain. I see the Anora/Alistair marriage as the best in terms of politics, etc.



My canon Warden, however is a female Cousland (Bronwyn) who loves Alistair and marries him. They rule together. I see this as a political marriage as well however as I am the next highest noble in the land (until we discover my brother is alive) and am the only one truly suited to wed Therin blood unless one searches outside the realm for a princess. My intention is to groom my brother's heir (and I will order my brother to remarry asap to a suitible, fertile bloodline) as the successor to the throne as the Therin line will be extinct, and the Couslands are the next most powerful, most noble family.



As you can see, loving Alistair is just the happy icing on the medieval, political cake!

[Addai]

Stoomkal wrote...
I never harden Alistair and he always does those things in the epilogue slides. Appointing an Elven councillor, a better deal for city elves and Dalish, etc.

I think that the only difference may be in the personal slide, and in what happens if he is *not* a King.

Even if he is an "unhardened" King, he still keeps Anora in check, preventing the terrible outcomes if she rules alone.

He is not an equal partner as unhardened.

I really see no reason not to harden him, and no advantage, whether romanced or not.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Sometimes I do, sometimes I don't. My favorite playthroughs he is not king.



I've done all the options at least once: unhardened king solo, hardened king solo, spare Loghain and make him marry Anora, Spare Loghain and execute him, Spare Loghain and send him off drinking, human noble married him and became consort, unhardened warden, hardened warden, hardened kill Loghain marry anora, unhardened killl loghain marry Anora, ect.



But the best and happiest endings involve not making him king and running off into the sunset as wardens.