Alright - so I'm not a Dungeon Master, nor have I ever really gotten into tabletop gaming. I do understand the basics of how a skill check works (d20+skill points+ability modifier+additional modifiers). But from a builder perspective, I'm having a little difficulty choosing a DC for things like locks and traps. As player levels go up, and players make different decisions in feats and skills, are there tried and true ways, or some chart out there, for 'dungeon masters' to reference to keep such things level-appropriate?
Determining skill DCs
Débuté par
Tonytobinus
, août 29 2010 02:22
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#2
Posté 29 août 2010 - 02:51
_Knightmare_
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Don't know about "level appropriate" charts, but the PnP DMG and PHB have some charts that classify things relative to the difficulty of performing said action.
They tend to go something like:
DC 10 = Simple
DC 15 = Difficult
DC 20 = Very Difficult
DC 25 = Extremely Difficult
DC 30+ = Nearly Impossible
These are when compared to the average person (which a PC is not really).
However, for things like picking a lock or disabling a trap, I think the game follows the "Take 20" rule, where the PC automatically rolls a 20 in these cases. So, at mimumum, the player probably has somewhere around a 25 check vs a DC even at 1st level. Not sure on that part though.
They tend to go something like:
DC 10 = Simple
DC 15 = Difficult
DC 20 = Very Difficult
DC 25 = Extremely Difficult
DC 30+ = Nearly Impossible
These are when compared to the average person (which a PC is not really).
However, for things like picking a lock or disabling a trap, I think the game follows the "Take 20" rule, where the PC automatically rolls a 20 in these cases. So, at mimumum, the player probably has somewhere around a 25 check vs a DC even at 1st level. Not sure on that part though.
Modifié par _Knightmare_, 29 août 2010 - 03:08 .
#3
Posté 30 août 2010 - 11:15
M. Rieder
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This may be time consuming, but when you are playing, take notice of DC's that you run across and see how they work on your character.
#4
Posté 30 août 2010 - 11:25
kamalpoe
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You do get to take 20, but only if you are not in combat. In combat you have your normal roll. Also, you must have at least one level of rogue to pick a lock/disarm a trap higher than dc20 iirc._Knightmare_ wrote...
However, for things like picking a lock or disabling a trap, I think the game follows the "Take 20" rule, where the PC automatically rolls a 20 in these cases. So, at mimumum, the player probably has somewhere around a 25 check vs a DC even at 1st level. Not sure on that part though.
#5
Posté 04 septembre 2010 - 02:21
dethia
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I do this in a somewhat practical manner that follows a few basic steps:
1) Who is this targeted towards? Do you want this event passed successfully by everyone or players who specialise in this field?
2) What level is this task geared for?
3) Lastly what is the difficulty?
Now how you put these three things together. Let's say hypothetically you want to put a lock on a door. First you decide if you want only rogues to be able to open this door or everyone. If everyone then automatically you cut the dc (whatever it may be) in half because as a non-class skill for some, their skill in it will be half of that of a rogue. On the other hand if you prefer only rogues or players who heavily invested in open lock to open the door then the dc will be what it'll be.
The next step what lvl is this for? Let's say hypothetically it is for a lvl 10 character. So you automatically know that the base skill this level 10 char will have is 13 in open lock.
Lastly how hard is the lock to pick? Let's now determine the dc putting everything together:
Say it is for a general audience, for a character of level 10 and you want them to struggle with it a little bit. Well you know they have around 7 in their base skill + a d20 roll, plus 2-5 from a modifier (at least), possibly lockpicks if they are available in the game so that's an overall possibility of rolling a value between 27-33. Since you want the dc to be a litle bit difficult go ahead and make the dc 30 which is near the maximum value. yes the assumptions are crude but they are good enough overall.
Let's look at another case scenario, you want only people specialised in the skill to open this door, it is tailored to a level 10 character and you want them to have an easy time with the lock.
Ok so now you haev 13 base skill points, assume 20 dex so a +5 modifier, a d20 roll so that means this person can make a roll of 37 with fair ease. Thus make the lock dc between 35-40 (40 if there are lockpicks available).
In general almost for any situation whether it is a trap, a conversation or a survival check you can always make a similar short analysis to get a ball-park figure for what the dc should be. You should also take into consideration as to what items players may have access to, for example in the previous example if open lock items are readily availble it's ok to raise the dc a few points.
1) Who is this targeted towards? Do you want this event passed successfully by everyone or players who specialise in this field?
2) What level is this task geared for?
3) Lastly what is the difficulty?
Now how you put these three things together. Let's say hypothetically you want to put a lock on a door. First you decide if you want only rogues to be able to open this door or everyone. If everyone then automatically you cut the dc (whatever it may be) in half because as a non-class skill for some, their skill in it will be half of that of a rogue. On the other hand if you prefer only rogues or players who heavily invested in open lock to open the door then the dc will be what it'll be.
The next step what lvl is this for? Let's say hypothetically it is for a lvl 10 character. So you automatically know that the base skill this level 10 char will have is 13 in open lock.
Lastly how hard is the lock to pick? Let's now determine the dc putting everything together:
Say it is for a general audience, for a character of level 10 and you want them to struggle with it a little bit. Well you know they have around 7 in their base skill + a d20 roll, plus 2-5 from a modifier (at least), possibly lockpicks if they are available in the game so that's an overall possibility of rolling a value between 27-33. Since you want the dc to be a litle bit difficult go ahead and make the dc 30 which is near the maximum value. yes the assumptions are crude but they are good enough overall.
Let's look at another case scenario, you want only people specialised in the skill to open this door, it is tailored to a level 10 character and you want them to have an easy time with the lock.
Ok so now you haev 13 base skill points, assume 20 dex so a +5 modifier, a d20 roll so that means this person can make a roll of 37 with fair ease. Thus make the lock dc between 35-40 (40 if there are lockpicks available).
In general almost for any situation whether it is a trap, a conversation or a survival check you can always make a similar short analysis to get a ball-park figure for what the dc should be. You should also take into consideration as to what items players may have access to, for example in the previous example if open lock items are readily availble it's ok to raise the dc a few points.
#6
Posté 05 septembre 2010 - 03:23
Eguintir Eligard
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Those numbers with recommended difficulty are really low for this game.
Even as a level 1 rogue, if you have basic points and just OK dex, you will be:
4 points open lock + 3 dex bonus = 7. Thats probably the minimum pick lock skill any rogue will start with.
Your DC is 20 listed as very difficult? Not for mr rogue. As knightmare said, your pc is not an average person. Your skill is 7 and the DC is 20? Thats essentially a 1 in 3 shot to unlock the thing. I really think no lock should be less than 15. The game seems to bear this out; when you ad a daze ability or similar to a weapon, the minimum DC is 15 I believe. You definitely dont want anything south of 15 and certainly not single digits.
After that, a rogues skill can go up 1 per level. So you can go with that, 15 minimum for easy at level 1, maybe push it to a 10 pt range to max difficulty at 25. (Thats very max btw, but hey, he still has a 10% shot at it, 1d20+7 = 27)
Then each level since he can gain 1 skill, at 1 to both ends, 16-26, 17-27. Add 1 more every 4 levels or so to compensate for them improving their dex or other ways to have higher skill than rank alone would allow. This is just an example using lock pick, applies anywhere.
Even as a level 1 rogue, if you have basic points and just OK dex, you will be:
4 points open lock + 3 dex bonus = 7. Thats probably the minimum pick lock skill any rogue will start with.
Your DC is 20 listed as very difficult? Not for mr rogue. As knightmare said, your pc is not an average person. Your skill is 7 and the DC is 20? Thats essentially a 1 in 3 shot to unlock the thing. I really think no lock should be less than 15. The game seems to bear this out; when you ad a daze ability or similar to a weapon, the minimum DC is 15 I believe. You definitely dont want anything south of 15 and certainly not single digits.
After that, a rogues skill can go up 1 per level. So you can go with that, 15 minimum for easy at level 1, maybe push it to a 10 pt range to max difficulty at 25. (Thats very max btw, but hey, he still has a 10% shot at it, 1d20+7 = 27)
Then each level since he can gain 1 skill, at 1 to both ends, 16-26, 17-27. Add 1 more every 4 levels or so to compensate for them improving their dex or other ways to have higher skill than rank alone would allow. This is just an example using lock pick, applies anywhere.
Modifié par Eguintir Eligard, 05 septembre 2010 - 03:26 .
