130 réponses à ce sujet

[Jonesey2k]

FTL works by a mass effect field cancelling out the objects mass to zero... So if you hit something would any kinetic energy be transferred at all? The article about the ship that hit the planet says it wasn't actually going FTL but was accelerating, maybe you'd collapse the field a microsecond before impact...

[SSV Enterprise]

It may take too much time to activate the FTL drive to have accuracy.

[Justicar]

omg omg omg



I predict Geth Dyson Sphere will FTL into Reaper Fleet.



kaboom

[xlavaina]

Jonesey2k wrote...

FTL works by a mass effect field cancelling out the objects mass to zero... So if you hit something would any kinetic energy be transferred at all? The article about the ship that hit the planet says it wasn't actually going FTL but was accelerating, maybe you'd collapse the field a microsecond before impact...

It doesn't lower it to zero it just dramatically lowers it. Therefore the object would have mass. Additionally, FTL drive is not initiated for any combat reason in ship to ship combat. Ships move on regular propulsion and thrusters in StSC. 

[PWENER]

Yeah, let's have the Normandy do this. INSTANT WIN!!!



More like 4 billion credits down the drain.

[Spartas Husky]

xlavaina wrote...


It doesn't lower it to zero it just dramatically lowers it.

it does reduce it to zero, or even more... not sur ehow to go beyond 0 into negative, but it does.

Codex explains it, for the Kodak, and both normandy's.

Dont wana go look for it, but I can recall "has a strong enough mass effect core, which completely negatives the "X put ship name here" mass"

[JowyXXV]

Actually, I believe Normandy 1 cost 120 billion creds.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Well to get all technical a Mass Effect field can increase or decrease an objects mass depending on Electrical charge. To go into FTL it decreases the ships mass. Now if a ship was in FTL when it hit something it will have a lower mass. So when the low mass object hit something it would do low amounts of damage. Now what you could do is place a large object in your hold or use a high mass projectile while in FTL. You could eject the object or fire the projectile while in FTL. The object will gain all its mass back as soon as it leaves the mass effect field, and keep its momentum. That would be an effective dive bombing method, but it would require extraordinary timing to pull off.



Of course that's only possible because I'm applying physics to a technology that doesn't exist.

[Spartas Husky]

Doesn't matter if the object has low mass, high enough speeds can make a dust particle impact with the force of nuclear warheads. All depends on the speed.



The lower the mass of the object, the much higher it needs to make up for its low mass to impact with great force.



So no, even if the mass is reduce, the speeds are so incredibly high that a cotton ball could destroy city blocks.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Spartas Husky wrote...

Doesn't matter if the object has low mass, high enough speeds can make a dust particle impact with the force of nuclear warheads. All depends on the speed.

The lower the mass of the object, the much higher it needs to make up for its low mass to impact with great force.

So no, even if the mass is reduce, the speeds are so incredibly high that a cotton ball could destroy city blocks.

It's still more cost effective to fire off a high mass projectile in FTL than to ram a ship into something and waste a ship when you could be firing a weapon. Besides evidently most Mass Effect fields on ships reduce the mass to nothing. If an object has no mass speed doesn't matter. The impact of an object with no mass would do absolutely nothing.

[Yakko77]

Using the FTL ship to "nuke" that Turian city sounds sort of like the use of "Fire Ships" in the old sailing days in a way. Taking an old/expendable ship, setting it aflame and setting it on a course towards much larger and vulnerable fighting ships in the hopes of setting them aflame or at least getting them to move away.





As for a ship laying waste to a city, The Texas City disaster of April 1947 comes to mind.

[Spartas Husky]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

Doesn't matter if the object has low mass, high enough speeds can make a dust particle impact with the force of nuclear warheads. All depends on the speed.

The lower the mass of the object, the much higher it needs to make up for its low mass to impact with great force.

So no, even if the mass is reduce, the speeds are so incredibly high that a cotton ball could destroy city blocks.

It's still more cost effective to fire off a high mass projectile in FTL than to ram a ship into something and waste a ship when you could be firing a weapon. Besides evidently most Mass Effect fields on ships reduce the mass to nothing. If an object has no mass speed doesn't matter. The impact of an object with no mass would do absolutely nothing.

where does it say most ships mass effect core negates completely their mass effect field? because I dont remember it... still I could be wrong.

Still, we dont know how it works, with all this mumbo jumbo, so, I would asume once soemthing crashes, the sheer jump of little mass to big mass, still carries great speeds.

You only need a couple of grams of tugsten being pulled by the earth's own atmosphere and a bit of good old rocket propulsion to have enough kinetic energy to devaste a city block.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

[JowyXXV]

Imo, it probably takes a while to reach FTL and hitting a ship (even a dreadnaught) with pinpoint accuracy doesn't seem very viable...



Still, judging by what happened to that Turian city, if they could replicate the same maneuver on a dreadnaught it'd be a viable attack.



(also, how large was the ship that attacked the Turian city?)

[Phaedon]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

What do you mean ? Fire a MA slug while being in FTL speed, or fire a MA slug that flies at FTL speed ?

The first is stupid, since you can't aim, and the second is impossible, even for dreadnoughts.

Going kamikaze would make a lot of sense against dreadnoughts and flagships, if FTL plotters were that accurate.

[Sparda Stonerule]

Well if you are postulating that a ship can hit another ship while in FTL then all you need to do is fly at the ship in FTL then release the slug and make a very minor alteration in your vector to dodge the ship. If FTL plotters are accurate enough to ship you could theoretically just fire a round from FTL to hit a ship instead of using another ship.

[Yakko77]

Phaedon wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

What do you mean ? Fire a MA slug while being in FTL speed, or fire a MA slug that flies at FTL speed ?

The first is stupid, since you can't aim, and the second is impossible, even for dreadnoughts.

Going kamikaze would make a lot of sense against dreadnoughts and flagships, if FTL plotters were that accurate.

To use modern equivalents, the Russians have massive cruise missiles that are roughly the size of a small plane which go supersonic and have impressive payloads.  I'm not sure how accurate they are but what if a frigate, a fighter/bomber or a Kodiac transport type craft or the ME equivalent of a cruise missile were traveling at FTL and hit a city or were accurate enough to hit a moving dreadnought while moving at such speeds.

I'm assuming the kinetic energy would equal several kilotons if not megatons depending on the size of the vehicle used.

[Phaedon]

Yakko77 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

What do you mean ? Fire a MA slug while being in FTL speed, or fire a MA slug that flies at FTL speed ?

The first is stupid, since you can't aim, and the second is impossible, even for dreadnoughts.

Going kamikaze would make a lot of sense against dreadnoughts and flagships, if FTL plotters were that accurate.

To use modern equivalents, the Russians have massive cruise missiles that are roughly the size of a small plane which go supersonic and have impressive payloads.  I'm not sure how accurate they are but what if a frigate, a fighter/bomber or a Kodiac transport type craft or the ME equivalent of a cruise missile were traveling at FTL and hit a city or were accurate enough to hit a moving dreadnought while moving at such speeds.

I'm assuming the kinetic energy would equal several kilotons if not megatons depending on the size of the vehicle used.

Missiles lock on things though. FTL plotters probably just read co-ordinates, which aren't exactly accurate.

[Fluffeh Kitteh]

Justicar wrote...

omg omg omg

I predict Geth Dyson Sphere will FTL into Reaper Fleet.

kaboom

lmao

Giant bowling ball of doom

Spartas Husky wrote...

xlavaina wrote...


It doesn't lower it to zero it just dramatically lowers it.

it does reduce it to zero, or even more... not sur ehow to go beyond 0 into negative, but it does.

Codex explains it, for the Kodak, and both normandy's.

Dont
wana go look for it, but I can recall "has a strong enough mass effect
core, which completely negatives the "X put ship name here" mass"

Mathematically, zero mass implies zero kinetic energy, since said energy is equal to half of mass times velocity squared.

Most common example? The photon. It travels at the speed of light, but if I shine a torchlight at you, you are not going to feel like a million lightspeed bullets are hitting your body. In fact you literally don't feel a thing, because they have no kinetic energy.

So I don't think mass effect fields work on zero mass but rather, arbitrarily small mass.

The Kodiak uses a mass effect field to lower its mass, reducing the effect of gravity on it (contragravity). That's why it can fly, because the downward force due to gravity is substantially reduced.

Modifié par Fluffeh Kitteh, 30 août 2010 - 01:39 .

[Yakko77]

Phaedon wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

What do you mean ? Fire a MA slug while being in FTL speed, or fire a MA slug that flies at FTL speed ?

The first is stupid, since you can't aim, and the second is impossible, even for dreadnoughts.

Going kamikaze would make a lot of sense against dreadnoughts and flagships, if FTL plotters were that accurate.

To use modern equivalents, the Russians have massive cruise missiles that are roughly the size of a small plane which go supersonic and have impressive payloads.  I'm not sure how accurate they are but what if a frigate, a fighter/bomber or a Kodiac transport type craft or the ME equivalent of a cruise missile were traveling at FTL and hit a city or were accurate enough to hit a moving dreadnought while moving at such speeds.

I'm assuming the kinetic energy would equal several kilotons if not megatons depending on the size of the vehicle used.

Missiles lock on things though. FTL plotters probably just read co-ordinates, which aren't exactly accurate.

Interesting point.  Using an FTL ship as a "kamikaze" doesn't seem viable against a moving and comparably small target like a dreadnought vs. a fairly large and static target like a city.  Mass and extreme kinteic energy seem to be the weapon of choice in the ME universe but there are limits and practical matter to take into account.

For those who don't know, the U.S. Navy is actually working on something similar to ME cannons with its electromagnetic railgun test.



It's likely years if not decades away from being a deployable weapon but the concept is being worked on.

[Phaedon]

Nice, didn't know about that.

[CuthbertTheAllgood]

We now know how to kill the reapers.
'Joker, disengage the FTL failsafe. We're going to hit him.'

Edit: Darn... apparently someone else thought of that already... 

Modifié par CuthbertTheAllgood, 30 août 2010 - 04:04 .

[JowyXXV]

Yakko77 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Yakko77 wrote...

Phaedon wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

Well still wouldn't you agree that firing a high mass projectile in FTL would be a lot more sensible than using a ship to ram something?

What do you mean ? Fire a MA slug while being in FTL speed, or fire a MA slug that flies at FTL speed ?

The first is stupid, since you can't aim, and the second is impossible, even for dreadnoughts.

Going kamikaze would make a lot of sense against dreadnoughts and flagships, if FTL plotters were that accurate.

To use modern equivalents, the Russians have massive cruise missiles that are roughly the size of a small plane which go supersonic and have impressive payloads.  I'm not sure how accurate they are but what if a frigate, a fighter/bomber or a Kodiac transport type craft or the ME equivalent of a cruise missile were traveling at FTL and hit a city or were accurate enough to hit a moving dreadnought while moving at such speeds.

I'm assuming the kinetic energy would equal several kilotons if not megatons depending on the size of the vehicle used.

Missiles lock on things though. FTL plotters probably just read co-ordinates, which aren't exactly accurate.

Interesting point.  Using an FTL ship as a "kamikaze" doesn't seem viable against a moving and comparably small target like a dreadnought vs. a fairly large and static target like a city.  Mass and extreme kinteic energy seem to be the weapon of choice in the ME universe but there are limits and practical matter to take into account.

For those who don't know, the U.S. Navy is actually working on something similar to ME cannons with its electromagnetic railgun test.



It's likely years if not decades away from being a deployable weapon but the concept is being worked on.

What's the point?  China will just steal our design 4-5 years after and make something better.

[Spartas Husky]

Isn't the only reason objects can achieve FTL travel is because of mass effect fields, I would imagine, if something is fired from the ship, the weird jump back to normal mass would rip the object, apart, as half of the object is exiting regains normal mass, while the other has reduced.... effects, big topple effect I would guess, since the object is no longer balanced.



"what is the point"



whats the point of creating better armor, if another country will just make a bigger round.



Whats the point of creating, faster jets, if another country will make a faster one.



Whats the point of creating a stronger soldier, if another country will create a stronger soldier than ours.



It has always been like that, those who wait, are always behind. When you steal something you steal what was, not what is right now. ANd what is right now is more advance that what was.

[JowyXXV]

In any case, we need to stop the rise of Communist China and it's rampant theft of American tech.