2001 réponses à ce sujet

[shootist70]

Hmm, maybe it's not that great an idea. Thinking about it, if you know that if you played through it in a hetero relationship, and got exactly the same story, it wouldn't matter how superb the writing was - suspension of disbelief is still out of the window.



Oh well, was just a thought.

[realyoungjeezy]

Are you asking for different endings depending on sex?

[shootist70]

realyoungjeezy wrote...

Are you asking for different endings depending on sex?

Nope, for the same romance story regardless of sex...but I've gone off the idea now.

[OriginsIsBest]

We dont need male on male romance..God sake, just freckin be female Hawke, problem solved.

[Saibh]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

We dont need male on male romance..God sake, just freckin be female Hawke, problem solved.

Well, why don't guys just play as girls then, since technically there is a female in that relationship being romanced?

[Jimmy Fury]

scootermcgaffin wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Just a thought, but why does the LI have to be bi? Why not just write one set of romance dialogue that can be used by the character no matter what sex the PC is?

That would still be bi, it would just now have the added bonus of being really generic and boring. 

Not necessarily.
I've mentioned the same thing before actually. Sexuality is a bit like Schrodinger's cat in that it can only exist once it has been observed (or in the case of a story, explained.)
The NPC doesn't even have to avoid using gender specific pronouns actually, just has to avoid talking about past relationships. As long as no past relationships are mentioned that the sexuality is vague and technically undefinable.

For example, a male NPC romancing a maleHawke is either gay or bi. If he never mentions an ex-girlfriend he can never, accurately, be called bi. He always remains potentially both.
If that same NPC romances LadyHawke he is either bi or straight. Again, so long as no past relationships are ever mentioned his sexuality remains vague and no label can be applied.

The problem is that people automatically metagame and view all possible PC's as a reference to the characters sexuality. They see the NPC's ability to romance both Garrett and LadyHawke as defining his sexuality as bi. But that's metagaming and technically inaccurate because the character himself, in any one playthrough, can only romance 1 sex, not both. So his sexuality shifts between each playthrouoh the same way other events change depending on the playthrough.

To put it in another way, do we consider Hawke intersexed simply because, from a meta view, both sexes of hawke exist?
No, we understand that Hawke's sex depends on the playthrough. If you play LadyHawke then Hawke is female and Garrett doesn't exist in that storyline.
The same logic should apply to a vague sexuality. If LadyHawke doesn't exist in the story then the possibility of romancing her can't be used to declare the NPC bi.

[scootermcgaffin]

OriginsIsBest wrote...

We dont need male on male romance..God sake, just freckin be female Hawke, problem solved.

But men are not women (which should be obvious) so a male-male romance is inherently different than a male-female one (which should be obvious), so the problem isn't solved at all (which...wait for it...should be obvious).

Modifié par scootermcgaffin, 31 août 2010 - 10:45 .

[realyoungjeezy]

Well I can't play females in games for some reason, although I dont do the same sex romances. I'm sure other doods are like this.

[shootist70]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

scootermcgaffin wrote...

shootist70 wrote...

Just a thought, but why does the LI have to be bi? Why not just write one set of romance dialogue that can be used by the character no matter what sex the PC is?

That would still be bi, it would just now have the added bonus of being really generic and boring. 

Not necessarily.
I've mentioned the same thing before actually. Sexuality is a bit like Schrodinger's cat in that it can only exist once it has been observed (or in the case of a story, explained.)
The NPC doesn't even have to avoid using gender specific pronouns actually, just has to avoid talking about past relationships. As long as no past relationships are mentioned that the sexuality is vague and technically undefinable.

For example, a male NPC romancing a maleHawke is either gay or bi. If he never mentions an ex-girlfriend he can never, accurately, be called bi. He always remains potentially both.
If that same NPC romances LadyHawke he is either bi or straight. Again, so long as no past relationships are ever mentioned his sexuality remains vague and no label can be applied.

The problem is that people automatically metagame and view all possible PC's as a reference to the characters sexuality. They see the NPC's ability to romance both Garrett and LadyHawke as defining his sexuality as bi. But that's metagaming and technically inaccurate because the character himself, in any one playthrough, can only romance 1 sex, not both. So his sexuality shifts between each playthrouoh the same way other events change depending on the playthrough.

To put it in another way, do we consider Hawke intersexed simply because, from a meta view, both sexes of hawke exist?
No, we understand that Hawke's sex depends on the playthrough. If you play LadyHawke then Hawke is female and Garrett doesn't exist in that storyline.
The same logic should apply to a vague sexuality. If LadyHawke doesn't exist in the story then the possibility of romancing her can't be used to declare the NPC bi.

Agreed, but as you say, it's only ever going to be viable if the player is never aware that the romance will be identical regardless of sex. Even when knowing that we could decide to ignore it for the sake of the story, but suspension of disbelief isn't entirely voluntary. If the player can't reconcile immersion breakers then it'd be difficult to reestablish.

[Jimmy Fury]

shootist70 wrote...
Agreed, but as you say, it's only ever going to be viable if the player is never aware that the romance will be identical regardless of sex. Even when knowing that we could decide to ignore it for the sake of the story, but suspension of disbelief isn't entirely voluntary. If the player can't reconcile immersion breakers then it'd be difficult to reestablish.

It doesn't even have to be identical though. Lines can be different, the NPC can use gender specific pronouns to refer to Hawke, etc.
The only thing that can declare a character bisexual is that character expressing an interest in both sexes over the course of the story. If that never occurs then he or she can be consider whatever sexuality the player wants.

Of course, it would never be done so my blathering is all just theoretical. People love labels too much to ever leave anything like that vague.

[Dave of Canada]

*post fail*

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 31 août 2010 - 11:49 .

[KillTheLastRomantic]

Saibh wrote...

Anarya wrote...

Or ME2 where not interested means "Jacob I will undress you with my eyes and use my bedroom voice whenever I talk to you about ANYTHING" regardless of whether I'm going to start romancin' ya.

"Jacob, you've seen me naked. You've seen me naked as a slab of rotting meat, and wasn't it hot? I need love, Jacob. It's been too long. Undress your chocolate wonders."

You should be hired on to the writing staff immediately.

[Ninja Mage]

Question for David Gaider: Will there be bisexual Qunari LI??? I'm dying to know!

[CrookedAsylum]

I want a Qunari LI. Not a Tal-Vashoth LI, but a Qunari one. I have no idea how it would work, but it will. It will.

[Saibh]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I want a Qunari LI. Not a Tal-Vashoth LI, but a Qunari one. I have no idea how it would work, but it will. It will.

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

[Bobad]

Saibh wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I want a Qunari LI. Not a Tal-Vashoth LI, but a Qunari one. I have no idea how it would work, but it will. It will.

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

Maybe some of us want to roleplay Tom Cruise, hence the Qunari love interest, as well as some other variations.

Modifié par Bobad, 01 septembre 2010 - 01:07 .

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

[Saibh]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

They've been in the room. That count?

[Clover Rider]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

But they can't be gay .

[CrookedAsylum]

Saibh wrote...

CrookedAsylum wrote...

I want a Qunari LI. Not a Tal-Vashoth LI, but a Qunari one. I have no idea how it would work, but it will. It will.

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

xD
But Sten teasing Morrigan was awesome! And then my mind wandered to places that aren't appropriate during political discussions.

Coincidentally, I found it both adorable and funny as hell when my male elf was the catcher for Zevran.

But I found most things funny with Zevran. Probably because he reminds me of those lovable, murderous unicorns...

[CrookedAsylum]

Some Geth wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

But they can't be gay .

Just like it isn't gay, so long as it's an elf~

[Clover Rider]

CrookedAsylum wrote...

Some Geth wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

But they can't be gay .

Just like it isn't gay, so long as it's an elf~

Or looks like a girl:whistle:.

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

Saibh wrote...

I said this on the part one thread, but it is too weird to be a guy and lean up for kisses. Just like it was too weird to lean down for Zevran's. I'd take a human male, but qunari are just too...big. If I'm playing a guy, I'm the guy, dammit, and you are relegated to girl status!

I take it you've never done a gay dwarf.

They've been in the room.

Wat.