2001 réponses à ce sujet

[Shadow_broker]

MariSkep wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

LoveAsThouWilt wrote...

Hence why I said, if it is excluded while other options are included "M/F F/M F/F" then I will not be purchasing the game by way that the company would receive money: I'll get it used.

Right...used...


>_>

But I'm right with you. One of the reasons I haven't bought or played ME yet is I can't shake the 'for 13 year old boys' image I have of it in my head. Part of that image steming from the fact they were willing to include a lesbian romance (with an alien race designed specifically for the male libido) but decided their male protagonist couldn't possibly be gay because something, I never figured that out.

I don't appreciate being talked down and as far as I'm concerned (as a totally hetero male) that's an insult to my intelligence.

You haven't played ME
Asari(the monogendered) were designed to look femenine to fill the void for the lack of female aliens (which you see none of in ME1) And beyond that they don't really give the horny male gamer any more than the Horny female gamer (although kelly lesbian romance is in ME2 but not a full romance more like a striptease/flirtation)

You really need to pick up Mass effect, Just because lack of S/S romance is a bad reason to miss out on the series IMO

Those are the blue chicks with the huge racks and are all up for girl on girl action, right?

Yeah, I think I'll stick with my current bias against the series.

Racks are small, And there's really on 1 instance of girl on girl action in ME1 but not one in ME2
They also hardly ever come off as ****ty
Also as part of the mass effect lore it's highly looked down upon in Asari culture to get with another Asari

Drell also were made in ME2 for the pure reason of an attractive male alien race that Femshep could romance

Modifié par Shadow_broker, 01 septembre 2010 - 06:27 .

[CrookedAsylum]

They also don't have 'huge racks' :/

[CrookedAsylum]

MariSkep wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
Also as part of the mass effect lore it's highly looked down upon in Asari culture to get with another Asari

Because they're agendered and require a member of another species to add new genetic material or something, right?

That's totally not an excuse to make a whole species of women bi. :innocent:

The Asari are pretty chill, dude. I say this even after I was first skeptical of their species. And they don't 'need' any genetic material from any other species; in fact, if anything, that's all based off of superstition.

Think what you want, man, but do you really think that it's fair to say you have all the info you need to judge the Asari when you never played the games? You're making a sweeping generalization that all of them are meant as sex machines, and nothing else. If that's truly what you believe, fine. You're welcome to swim in ignorance.

[Wittand25]

MariSkep wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
Also as part of the mass effect lore it's highly looked down upon in Asari culture to get with another Asari

Because they're agendered and require a member of another species to add new genetic material or something, right?

That's totally not an excuse to make a whole species of women bi. :innocent:

Well in ME2 you learn another reason why they prefare mating with other species.
But that does not change the fact that the Asari start life as stripper (or worse), grow into MILFs and end their life cycle as sages in skimpy clothing. The whole race definatly started out as fanservice and got added a little depth later.

[shootist70]

ErichHartmann wrote...


Your current bias is tainted because you don't know the actual lore of the Asari culture.  Don't assume anything.     

Oh come on, we're talking about corporate/marketing guys making a commercial product, not the writers of The Bible 2: All About Aliens.

Modifié par shootist70, 01 septembre 2010 - 06:38 .

[Russalka]

I liked the Asari, nevermind how the developers refused to admit it was a homosexual romance option for femShep only, or a lesbian shag with the Consort.
And how everyone put fingers in their ears and sang when told of the obvious double standard, how the predefined Shepard character, an icon, can be a lesbian, but not a homosexual man.

Modifié par Russalka, 01 septembre 2010 - 06:49 .

[shootist70]

EDIT: double post.

Modifié par shootist70, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:26 .

[shootist70]

This is what TVTropes had to say about it:

www.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DiscountLesbians

If you don't want to click on the link, I'll quote it:

Discount Lesbians

They look exactly like hot women, and they make out with other hot women. But they're actually aliens/immortals/bodysnatchers/etc. So it's not really gay, right?

Discount Lesbians are canon homosexual characters and couples who are either not human to begin with, come from alternate realities, have been magically or technologically altered in ways that affect their sexuality, etc., so that they don't really "count". This usually seems to be a device used within the story to maintain a status quo that lets the audience watch two hot chicks making out without having to think about the associated real-world issues or feel threatened by the notion of a genuine relationship between two women with no need for a man. On the other hand, the trope may come into play if the writer wishes to include a lesbian relationship in the story but is too spineless and terrified of the Moral Guardians, thus becoming a way for a weak willed Rule Abiding Rebel to make an attempt at Getting Crap Past The Radar.

Note that they're Discount Lesbians only if they're included in the story in a way that obviates the need to address the associated issues of sexuality or the rights/history/lifestyle issues faced by or associated with gays in the real world. This is usually done through othering homosexuality by associating it only with characters who have conspicuously different traits from the viewers - Discount Lesbians. Characters used to draw attention to those issues are inversions.

Basically gays... but cheaper. Commonly carries Unfortunate Implications (see the page quote).
Compare Have You Tried Not Being A Monster, Lesbian Vampire, Bury Your Gays. Related to Hide Your Lesbians in that both are a way of including apparently gay content without admitting to it.

Modifié par shootist70, 01 septembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[UbiquitousGrue]

Bioware's earlier (ME1) interviews all explicitly stated the Asari were a nod to the sort of 'green-skinned babe' fanservice you might see in Star Trek. The artbook also states as much.



That said, this is rather off topic.

[Jimmy Fury]

Progressive_Stupidity1 wrote...
I suppose, I'm just incredibly cynical on the subject after ME2.  Though I've been very subtle about it, so you may not have noticed.

That's about where I stand on it. I'm trying very hard to be optimistic and give Bioware the benefit of the doubt since DA is a different dev team and Gaider seems much cooler about... well everything really (i can't recall CHud ever joining in any of our reindeer games on here)
But i'm a cynic by nature as well as slightly paranoid so yeah... there's part of me that can't be optimistic because it's too busy preparing for the worst since, as cool as Gaider is, there are other decision makers and other factors involved.
I'll be preordering the CE as soon as it's announced...  but it will be for in-store pick up in case, for purely principled reasons, I find myself unable to purchase it.


And, not to help the thread continue to derail but I find myself unable to resist saying this yet again:
The biological sex and/or sexuality of the Asari themselves is irrelivant. In order to find one attractive FemShep must be bi or les. A hetero female would not be attracted to the aeshetically "female" form of an Asari.

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Ad Dugg wrote...

I made my Warden gay so if I do decide to make Hawke gay then I'm hoping I can romance Wade or Herren. More so Herren just to see if "he" is a Desire demon.

Aww but why would you break the two of them up? They are such a lovely couple lol for NPCs at least.

[Daewan]

Re: Asari - Casey Hudson obviously failed biology (can't tell the difference between genders, or between gender and sexuality).

Re: Wade and Herren - Don't you dare! You're not fabulous enough for the smithy!

And just to try and take my mind off the Templar thing, how about a Chasind LI? It'd be neat to learn more about their culture. And have a fur-clad barbarian in your tent.

No, I'd still rather have a Templar. Or a Chevalier.

[Darthnemesis2]

The m/m (and not even going to say "if there is one" because if there *isn't* one I will be very pissed, and I don't want to think about that) romance option should be a pirate. Not the ugly red beard type pirate, but more like the sexy, witty, swashbuckler type pirate. K, Bioware? You should make that happen. kthnxbai.

[shootist70]

UbiquitousGrue wrote...

Bioware's earlier (ME1) interviews all explicitly stated the Asari were a nod to the sort of 'green-skinned babe' fanservice you might see in Star Trek. The artbook also states as much.

That said, this is rather off topic.

Yep. I think that was fairly obvious to most of us. It was on topic because we were discussing the actual treatment that Bioware give/are likely to give to s/s romances. Personally I don't think all of it applies. Bioware have, as you'd expect, a corporate approach to creativity,  so any leanings towards creative idealism are likely to recieve some icy cold stares from the top end of the meeting room table.

So personally I'm not expecting them to start breaking new ground here. Games aren't subject to any real level of critical appraisal in the mainstream/gaming press as far as subject matter creative integrity goes. They aren't about to get savagely mauled by critics for using ham-fisted stereotypes, so I wouldn't be too surprised if that's what we get...again.

Having said that I'd still buy the game and probably enjoy it. I'd like to see much better but I'm not suffering under any illusions or have any false expectations of the genre here.

Modifié par shootist70, 01 septembre 2010 - 10:01 .

[Ninja Mage]

yeah I'll still enjoy the game even if it doesn't have m/m romance ( That pirate lady looked exotic and sexy) But if there is a m/m romance It will be the cherry on the cake for me

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Daewan wrote...

Re: Asari - Casey Hudson obviously failed biology (can't tell the difference between genders, or between gender and sexuality).
Re: Wade and Herren - Don't you dare! You're not fabulous enough for the smithy!
And just to try and take my mind off the Templar thing, how about a Chasind LI? It'd be neat to learn more about their culture. And have a fur-clad barbarian in your tent.
No, I'd still rather have a Templar. Or a Chevalier.

Ditto on the Chasind. I want to learn more about them as well. That and I threw the chasind robe on my warrior early on in my play of the game just because I thought it looked.... unruly and hot? lol

[LoveAsThouWilt]

Wittand25 wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

Shadow_broker wrote...
Also as part of the mass effect lore it's highly looked down upon in Asari culture to get with another Asari

Because they're agendered and require a member of another species to add new genetic material or something, right?

That's totally not an excuse to make a whole species of women bi. :innocent:

Well in ME2 you learn another reason why they prefare mating with other species.
But that does not change the fact that the Asari start life as stripper (or worse), grow into MILFs and end their life cycle as sages in skimpy clothing. The whole race definatly started out as fanservice and got added a little depth later.

Or a grumpy ass bartender lol

[UbiquitousGrue]

shootist70 wrote...

It was on topic because we were discussing the actual treatment that Bioware give/are likely to give to s/s romances.

That statement was more a clumsy exit strategy on my part; apologies for coming off a little terse.

shootist70 wrote...

So personally I'm not
expecting them to start breaking new ground here. Games aren't subject
to any real level of critical appraisal in the mainstream/gaming press
as far as subject matter creative integrity goes. They aren't about to
get savagely mauled by critics for using ham-fisted stereotypes, so I
wouldn't be too surprised if that's what we get...again.

Having
said that I'd still buy the game and probably enjoy it. I'd like to see
much better but I'm not suffering under any illusions or have any false
expectations of the genre here.

Hm. I'm still on the fence, myself. It's not that m/m romances (or the lack thereof) will necessarily be the sole deciding factor, but it is one of several that I'm keeping an eye on. These days I feel I have enough older games to occupy myself with that I don't need to buy things that'll provoke more irritation/disappointment than fun. (*cough* ME2 *end-cough*) I figure games could use more savage mauling. ;P 

Modifié par UbiquitousGrue, 02 septembre 2010 - 01:09 .

[SweetPetunia86]

I am all for dude on dude love. Nothing like seeing two hot dudes go at it...drool!!

[eucatastrophe]

Optimystic_X wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Their justification wasn't to say why they didn't think it was viable to include M/M. It was why all the gay options had to also be bi. At least that was my reading of it.

This was my understanding as well.

In other words, the subset of gamers that would care whether a m/m romance is explicitly gay as opposed to bi, is itself a subset of the gamers that just want an m/m romance to begin with, which is itself a subset of the game's target audience in general. Catering to such a niche would yield too few dividends for the work required, especially when the media would be satisfied just with the bi romances.

I actually would agree.
It's nice to have a bone. (Pun unintended to you dirty minds;) )
In a perfect world we would all have our perfect LIs. But asking for specifcally gay ones (to me) verges on being given an inch and wanting a mile.

It would be lovely to have a gay-only option, but I'm just happy we were given (wonderful) bi options to start with.

I would also like greater variety among LIs... It would be nice if we had to chose between Alistair and Zev.

(I really don't like getting into the whole manly man vs. flamboyant man and what is better since subjects like those raise questions like: 

1. What makes a man a man?
2. Alistair was written to be straight and seems straight to me - Really? Who are you to determine what seems gay and what seems straight?

...and so on.

Variety is the stuff of life BioWare! )

Modifié par eucatastrophe, 02 septembre 2010 - 06:37 .

[KillTheLastRomantic]

eucatastrophe wrote...

Optimystic_X wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Their justification wasn't to say why they didn't think it was viable to include M/M. It was why all the gay options had to also be bi. At least that was my reading of it.

This was my understanding as well.

In other words, the subset of gamers that would care whether a m/m romance is explicitly gay as opposed to bi, is itself a subset of the gamers that just want an m/m romance to begin with, which is itself a subset of the game's target audience in general. Catering to such a niche would yield too few dividends for the work required, especially when the media would be satisfied just with the bi romances.

I actually would agree.
It's nice to have a bone. (Pun unintended to you dirty minds;) )
In a perfect world we would all have our perfect LIs. But asking for specifcally gay ones (to me) verges on being given an inch and wanting a mile.

It would be lovely to have a gay-only option, but I'm just happy we were given (wonderful) bi options to start with.

I would also like greater variety among LIs... It would be nice if we had to chose between Alistair and Zev.

(I really don't like getting into the whole manly man vs. flamboyant man and what is better since subjects like those raise questions like: 

1. What makes a man a man?
2. Alistair was written to be straight and seems straight to me - Really? Who are you to determine what seems gay and what seems straight?

...and so on.

Variety is the stuff of life BioWare! )

I really don't care if the same sex options are bi so long as they're in there.Obviously it would be nice to see a gay companion but I wouldn't push my terrible luck.