2001 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Hmmm, I've known plenty of loose people, gay and not.  That is not something that is stereotypically gay.  Flamboyant?  I don't see that either.  He tells both genders he actually prefers women but is open minded?  Very NOT typically gay.

It's a sterotype that gay men will sleep with anything that moves. As for Flamboyant, its something I heard,...urgh. If only I remembered that debate Collider and I had.

Edit: I have seen the end of his romance.

Was does everyone assume if I haven't seen his romance if I find him sleazy?

Edit: Oh. I guess I shouldn't have jumped in then.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:50 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...


It's a sterotype that gay men will sleep with anything that moves. As for Flamboyant, its something I heard,...urgh. If only I remembered that debate Collider and I had.

Edit: I have seen the end of his romance.

Was does everyone assume if I haven't seen his romance if I find him sleazy?

I was responding to you saying you dumped him because he creeped you out.  That to me sounds like you broke up with him before the end.

Another thing, though.  You can have sex with Zevran quite early IF you initiate it, but he himself doesn't initiate it until his approval is quite a bit higher (Adore).  

Edit: You're allowed to find him sleazy.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I still was wondering why the person I initially responded to found his romance stereotypically gay

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:49 .

[Ryzaki]

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


It's a sterotype that gay men will sleep with anything that moves. As for Flamboyant, its something I heard,...urgh. If only I remembered that debate Collider and I had.

Edit: I have seen the end of his romance.

Was does everyone assume if I haven't seen his romance if I find him sleazy?

I was responding to you saying you dumped him because he creeped you out.  That to me sounds like you broke up with him before the end.

Another thing, though.  You can have sex with Zevran quite early IF you initiate it, but he himself doesn't initiate it until his approval is quite a bit higher (Adore).  

Edit: You're allowed to find him sleazy.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I still was wondering why the person I initially responded to found his romance stereotypically gay

Wait they said his romance was sterotypically gay? 

I heard he was a gay/bisexual person sterotype (mostly the "anything that moves/depravedbisexual/ really gets around"  and probably has that orientation due to abuse). not that the romance was sterotypically gay. Not to mention that the surface is pretty repulsive in itself.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:58 .

[ejoslin]

Ryzaki wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...


It's a sterotype that gay men will sleep with anything that moves. As for Flamboyant, its something I heard,...urgh. If only I remembered that debate Collider and I had.

Edit: I have seen the end of his romance.

Was does everyone assume if I haven't seen his romance if I find him sleazy?

I was responding to you saying you dumped him because he creeped you out.  That to me sounds like you broke up with him before the end.

Another thing, though.  You can have sex with Zevran quite early IF you initiate it, but he himself doesn't initiate it until his approval is quite a bit higher (Adore).  

Edit: You're allowed to find him sleazy.  It doesn't bother me in the slightest. I still was wondering why the person I initially responded to found his romance stereotypically gay

Wait they said his romance was sterotypically gay? 

I heard he was a gay/bisexual person sterotype (mostly the "everything that moves/depravedbisexual" and has that orientation due to abuse). not that the romance was sterotypically gay.

Gah, you know, I'll have to go back and read.  I am a lot MORE curious why he would find Zevran a stereotypical gay man.  Who prefers women.  Who is not effeminate.  He flirts a whole lot, but that is not a gay characteristic.

Edit: The TVTropes definitely really doesn't seem to describe him, I don't think.

But I'm sorry I even asked at this point.  I KNOW your opinion of Zevran.  This is not new.  I was curious about someone's point of view on this, not to hear again how much you dislike Zevran.

SOOOO, back to m/m hawke.  I'm for it.

Edit: your opinion of Zevran is fine with me.  It's just not that interesting to me at this point since we discussed it in another thread. 

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 octobre 2010 - 11:58 .

[maxernst]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

maxernst wrote...

Based on what we've seen in DA:O from the Zevran romance, homosexuality isn't seen as that big a deal in Ferelden, and if anything, I'd think Ferelden would be on the conservative end of Thedas societies.  Besides, it seems very likely that there will be girl-on-girl action in DA2 (given what we saw of Isabela in DA:O), so why not some boy-on-boy.

I'm unsure.

Zevran is Antivan, Isabela is Rivaini, Leliana is Orlesian, so their relationships with the PC can't exactly be an example of what is accepted in Ferelden.

Not that being gay isn't accepted by Fereldens, but some of the cultures demand marriage to the other gender. City Elf, for instance, requires marriage for a child to be deemed an adult in society, and the spouse is chosen by parents or alienage elder. Zevran has an interesting line for male Wardens if he learns the PC was to be married, something like: "What happened? Did they discover that you prefer...?"

It seems like extra-curricular activities with the same gender is fine, but marriage to the opposite gender will be expected one day (as someone else mentioned David Gaider possibly saying).

I would not assume that same gender marriage is accepted in Ferelden.  I don't, for example, have Aedan marry Alistair in my fanfic, and I have him being concerned about whether Fergus would accept Alistair as part of the family (though he does).   I just don't think medieval European attitudes have any relevance to whether Hawke should be allowed to have a gay relationship in DA2.  I think on balance, evidence is that in this particular aspect, Ferelden is more like a modern western country (most of which still don't allow gay marriage).

@ejoslin, I didn't check that link but I can tell you why he's viewed as stereotypical:  it's the fact that he's so easy to bed at the start.  Firstly, gay men are very sensitive to the "All gays are promiscuous" trope.   And his backstory is also problematic because we're all too familiar with storylines that suggest that homosexuality is a result of childhood abuse.   We also get portrayed disproportionately in the media as serial killers and the assassin thing feeds into that.   It's not fair to criticize Bioware on the basis of one character.  They didn't have enough room to represent the entire spectrum of possible gay and bisexual men.  And yes, I realize Zevran (like all the companions) is more complex than he appears at first.  But from a gay man's perspective, Zevran has a lot of uncomfortable baggage, and while most of us were thrilled to have a male/male romance option in DA:O, I don't feel I need a poll to tell me that Zevran is more popular among women than gay men.  I think there was actually a poll on the romance options some time ago and I remember noticing that there were more people who played male characters romancing Alistair than Zevran, which is pretty remarkable given that you need a mod to romance Alistair.

[Ryzaki]

^Yeah that's what I was trying (and failing) to get at.

[ejoslin]

maxernst wrote...

@ejoslin, I didn't check that link but I can tell you why he's viewed as stereotypical:  it's the fact that he's so easy to bed at the start.  Firstly, gay men are very sensitive to the "All gays are promiscuous" trope.   And his backstory is also problematic because we're all too familiar with storylines that suggest that homosexuality is a result of childhood abuse.   We also get portrayed disproportionately in the media as serial killers and the assassin thing feeds into that.   It's not fair to criticize Bioware on the basis of one character.  They didn't have enough room to represent the entire spectrum of possible gay and bisexual men.  And yes, I realize Zevran (like all the companions) is more complex than he appears at first.  But from a gay man's perspective, Zevran has a lot of uncomfortable baggage, and while most of us were thrilled to have a male/male romance option in DA:O, I don't feel I need a poll to tell me that Zevran is more popular among women than gay men.  I think there was actually a poll on the romance options some time ago and I remember noticing that there were more people who played male characters romancing Alistair than Zevran, which is pretty remarkable given that you need a mod to romance Alistair.

Thank you for this answer.  I really was genuinely puzzled, as the gay and the straight romances are so similar.  There are nuances I wouldn't pick up on, because I'm not sensitive to them.

I still don't think of him as a stereotype, but I understand far better why he would be seen that way.

[Tranceptor]

maxernst wrote...

I think there was actually a poll on the romance options some time ago and I remember noticing that there were more people who played male characters romancing Alistair than Zevran, which is pretty remarkable given that you need a mod to romance Alistair.

That's cause Alistair is awesome, he was pretty much exactly what I want to see as a gay/bi romance option.

Well, him and Garrus.

[Tranceptor]

Ryzaki wrote...

^Yeah that's what I was trying (and failing) to get at.

You didn't do too badly, I got what you were getting at.  

[TrackerTrem]

I didn't find Zevran effeminate at all. He was just coy and ruthless

[Ryzaki]

Tranceptor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

^Yeah that's what I was trying (and failing) to get at.

You didn't do too badly, I got what you were getting at.  

Oh. Good. I'm not a complete failure then.

Frankly I'd have preferred Alistair for the bi option too. Plus the whole dumping after the landsmeet would've made me cry even harder than with my female PCs.

[Tranceptor]

Ryzaki wrote...
Oh. Good. I'm not a complete failure then.

Frankly I'd have preferred Alistair for the bi option too. Plus the whole dumping after the landsmeet would've made me cry even harder than with my female PCs.

It would have made more sense too as his job as king would be to produce an heir.

Hopefully there will be someone more like that for Hawke (so odd saying that name), rogue or not someone who is not so easy and  comes off as a bit more. . . . I don't know, masculine. Though what I liked most about the character was that he was so funny and earnest.  

[The Lesser Evil]

ejoslin wrote...

SOOOO, back to m/m hawke.  I'm for it.

As am I. Especially if he gets to break some prude or inexperienced Templar, like female PCs got to do with Alistair in Origins.

[Ryzaki]

Tranceptor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Oh. Good. I'm not a complete failure then.

Frankly I'd have preferred Alistair for the bi option too. Plus the whole dumping after the landsmeet would've made me cry even harder than with my female PCs.

It would have made more sense too as his job as king would be to produce an heir.

Hopefully there will be someone more like that for Hawke (so odd saying that name), rogue or not someone who is not so easy and  comes off as a bit more. . . . I don't know, masculine. Though what I liked most about the character was that he was so funny and earnest.  

I know. It made plenty of sense with everyone (except the female noble PC) but it still bugged the heck out of me. At least you can be his mistress though.

Yeah someone open without the whole "I must push everyone away from me because of my wangsty past" issues would be great. And...I never found Zevran overly effeminate...he's not exactly masculine either. ...I might've actually liked him better if he had been a bit effeminate but as it is he's in the middle and I'm kinda "meh." 

I loved that about Alistair too.

Plus dragging Alistair around on evil playthroughs and getting his rant is increadibly hot.  

Though...is it partially confirmed we're getting a male quarian companion? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:38 .

[Eveangaline]

The Lesser Evil wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

SOOOO, back to m/m hawke.  I'm for it.

As am I. Especially if he gets to break some prude or inexperienced Templar, like female PCs got to do with Alistair in Origins.

I'm hoping you mean break in.

...But yes. Hey, isn't there supposed to be a widowed templar you meet at the begining? Perhaps you can choose to 'comfort' him after the loss of his wife. Wrap your strong arms around him, tell him it's ok to cry, maybe he'd like to lie down in your tent a little and rest, he must be tired after all this. If only there were some way he could get over the loss of his wife..some sexy way.

[Ryzaki]

^I thought he ended up dead?

[Tranceptor]

Ryzaki wrote...

 And...I never found Zevran overly effeminate...he's not exactly masculine either. ...I might've actually liked him better if he had been a bit effeminate but as it is he's in the middle and I'm kinda "meh." 

He seemed effeminate to me because he was so flirty, like they had taken some over-sexed female character that you would find on any evening TV drama and turned her into a guy. I just didn't like it at all. His character is cool and funny and I like having him around, like he's someone I would hang out with, but not romanticaly appealing. 

Plus dragging Alistair around on evil playthroughs and getting his rant is increadibly hot.  

Heh, I don't think I get which rant you're talking about. I try not to do too much evil with him around. Mostly cause I feel bad when he gets disapproves, like I worry that he'll hate my character.  

Though...is it partially confirmed we're getting a male quarian companion? 

Uh, not as far as I know. I don't think I've heard anything about it. Sorry

Modifié par Tranceptor, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:53 .

[Eveangaline]

Ryzaki wrote...

^I thought he ended up dead?

Oh, curse it, I thought it was his wife that ended up dead. I'm probably mistaken.

[mellifera]

Ryzaki wrote...

Tranceptor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Oh. Good. I'm not a complete failure then.

Frankly I'd have preferred Alistair for the bi option too. Plus the whole dumping after the landsmeet would've made me cry even harder than with my female PCs.

It would have made more sense too as his job as king would be to produce an heir.

Hopefully there will be someone more like that for Hawke (so odd saying that name), rogue or not someone who is not so easy and  comes off as a bit more. . . . I don't know, masculine. Though what I liked most about the character was that he was so funny and earnest.  

I know. It made plenty of sense with everyone (except the female noble PC) but it still bugged the heck out of me. At least you can be his mistress though.

Yeah someone open without the whole "I must push everyone away from me because of my wangsty past" issues would be great. And...I never found Zevran overly effeminate...he's not exactly masculine either. ...I might've actually liked him better if he had been a bit effeminate but as it is he's in the middle and I'm kinda "meh." 

I loved that about Alistair too.

Plus dragging Alistair around on evil playthroughs and getting his rant is increadibly hot.  

Though...is it partially confirmed we're getting a male quarian companion? 

Quarians in Dragon Age?

Modifié par yukidama, 29 octobre 2010 - 12:56 .

[Backstage]

just because a person acts wierd doesnt mean they are gay, that's like saying " if your french your gay." plus if i remember correctly and your a male romancing zev and ask alistair if he is jealous, he actually flips out, showing he doesnt like men like that.

[Ryzaki]

Tranceptor wrote...

He seemed effeminate to me because he was so flirty, like they had taken some over-sexed female character that you would find on any evening TV drama and turned her into a guy. I just didn't like it at all. His character is cool and funny and I like having him around, like he's someone I would hang out with, but not romanticaly appealing.

True that. I did have to force myself to romance him. *shakes head* with everyone else I just fell into it. And yes he is worth dragging around just to get the dialogue he offers.

Heh, I don't think I get which rant you're talking about. I try not to do too much evil with him around. Mostly cause I feel bad when he gets disapproves, like I worry that he'll hate my character.

This rant

Edit: here's a better version: rant

So smexy. "I'm going to talk and you're going to listen!" *swoons* 

Uh, not as far as I know. I don't think I've heard anything about it. Sorry

Aw...

I am dissappoint

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 octobre 2010 - 01:00 .

[Ryzaki]

yukidama wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Tranceptor wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Oh. Good. I'm not a complete failure then.

Frankly I'd have preferred Alistair for the bi option too. Plus the whole dumping after the landsmeet would've made me cry even harder than with my female PCs.

It would have made more sense too as his job as king would be to produce an heir.

Hopefully there will be someone more like that for Hawke (so odd saying that name), rogue or not someone who is not so easy and  comes off as a bit more. . . . I don't know, masculine. Though what I liked most about the character was that he was so funny and earnest.  

I know. It made plenty of sense with everyone (except the female noble PC) but it still bugged the heck out of me. At least you can be his mistress though.

Yeah someone open without the whole "I must push everyone away from me because of my wangsty past" issues would be great. And...I never found Zevran overly effeminate...he's not exactly masculine either. ...I might've actually liked him better if he had been a bit effeminate but as it is he's in the middle and I'm kinda "meh." 

I loved that about Alistair too.

Plus dragging Alistair around on evil playthroughs and getting his rant is increadibly hot.  

Though...is it partially confirmed we're getting a male quarian companion? 

Quarians in Dragon Age?

Damn you mass effect!

I meant the other guys with a Q Qunari.

...How do you spell it? I keep forgeting.

[Backstage]

i dont see why people hate zev, he just sleeps with anything with legs. plus his bisexuality was part of his character, they didn't just throw him in there.



i mean being straight i romanced as a fem warden and e even told her he slept with men/

[Ryzaki]

Backstage wrote...

i dont see why people hate zev, he just sleeps with anything with legs. plus his bisexuality was part of his character, they didn't just throw him in there.

i mean being straight i romanced as a fem warden and e even told her he slept with men/

Well he told the male warden he slept with women so it wasn't all that odd.

[Tranceptor]

Ryzaki wrote...

True that. I did have to force myself to romance him. *shakes head* with everyone else I just fell into it. And yes he is worth dragging around just to get the dialogue he offers.

His dialogue when you find the Urn of sacred ashes is priceless.

This rant

Edit: here's a better version: rant

Oh wow, I've never gotten that. Man he really lets you have it. ..

So smexy. "I'm going to talk and you're going to listen!" *swoons*