2001 réponses à ce sujet

[comicfan22]

I'm really tired of this fight, and I'm sure others I know are too. It's just like a never ending circle of opinion/personal bias on this matter. It is refreshing that s/s relationships are still being talked about.



I will say this, as I have mentioned in the past, metagaming is fine but when you play an RPG like Dragon Age or Mass Effect, you must put aside your values and play as the character you are role playing.



That is to say, if you know something is going to happen or that someone is something else you should come at it from the main character's perspective and act on it accordingly or a lot of joy is going to be lost and so too will your interest in playing it.



/rant



I want me a mage or warrior m/m love interest please.

[Eveangaline]

I wonder if one of the dalish we meet could be the m/m love interest? I kinda don't want another elf this time, but I do like the idea of romancing one of the dalish.

[Tae Jir]

ziggehunderslash wrote...

I guess you can't really blame people for thinking this way, it's a rare situation, to have optional elements of the narrative that don't take part within the individual story you're seeing, I guess it's unique to roleplaying forms.

And I don't really blame people who take offense at such things, as I said, I myself was uncomfortable with Zevran's openness, and I can easily see how people could turn that into external anger rather than deal with it emotionally. I guess that's why, as you and jimmy said, it comes across as illogical, because it's people trying to rationalise an emotional effect.

I do think there is an element of illogic in the response. But I would place way more importance on just what you end your last (quoted) paragraph with: emotions.
And, ziggehunderslash, your own response is actually something I encounter quite a bit in the real world. Some  guys get real nervous around totally out guys, and really only relax when they realize that:  my being out with you isn't about my coming on to you or about some assumption I might be making about you...it's just about my being honest. And, when it all falls into place, it's a beautiful thing to see: comfort all around!
One thing I do wonder about... is the anger about gay/bi choice in the game related to how in a way its not about something completely external (Zevron likes guys); but then becomes an internal choice: I can press choice number 3 to come on to Zevron. OMG!! Panic Attack!! I'm going gay!! Must.Reject.This.Game.

I would love to see the day when a topic such as this would have lots of straight guys posting on who they would like to see as Hawke's dude squeeze just because its another way of exploring RPG possabilities. Sort of like how we can post about armour, tactics, locations, etc. "Yeah,  it would be great to see  Mage gear that looked like it was designed for running and fightin in!" And without having to add "Just to be clear, not that I go for mages or their get up."
I am reminded of watching my daughter play, then, here at home. And now, on the forums: its way more than just a game!

[My Mistake]

[Edit: Inappropriate linked removed. Linking to questionable material gets you banned. -- Pacifien]

Modifié par Pacifien, 09 novembre 2010 - 04:52 .

[Ziggeh]

Tae Jir wrote...
One thing I do wonder about... is the anger about gay/bi choice in the game related to how in a way its not about something completely external (Zevron likes guys); but then becomes an internal choice: I can press choice number 3 to come on to Zevron. OMG!! Panic Attack!! I'm going gay!! Must.Reject.This.Game.

Honestly, I think it's massively complicated. I think you could write essays without covering all the bases, so a thread in a gaming forum probably isn't going to get far into the why, sadly.

I would say that that can't help though, that at that point the game contains the potential to head in a direction they see as themselves involved in a gay relationship, but I suspect the reaction would be much the same even if all your options at that point were "No thanks Zev".

Tae Jir wrote...
I would love to see the day when a topic such as this would have lots of straight guys posting on who they would like to see as Hawke's dude squeeze just because its another way of exploring RPG possabilities. Sort of like how we can post about armour, tactics, locations, etc. "Yeah,  it would be great to see  Mage gear that looked like it was designed for running and fightin in!" And without having to add "Just to be clear, not that I go for mages or their get up."

haha, that must be pretty bizarre. People aren't good at distancing. What I'd like to see is an in game romance that actually attempts to tackle that discomfort, that questions it. I think that would be an enormously powerful story, even if the majority of people who would get the most from it would avoid it like the plague. I have wierd ideas about romance, I thought the best one in ME2 was Samara, which seems to confuse a lot of people.

[highcastle]

ziggehunderslash wrote...
What I'd like to see is an in game romance that actually attempts to tackle that discomfort, that questions it. I think that would be an enormously powerful story, even if the majority of people who would get the most from it would avoid it like the plague. I have wierd ideas about romance, I thought the best one in ME2 was Samara, which seems to confuse a lot of people.

I like this a lot, actually. One of the things I thought odd in DA:O was that no one really questioned your romance in certain circumstances. For instances, my human noble and Zevran. Forget same-sex, you also have a human in authority (or previously from authority) in a romance with a lower-class elf. The novels make a lot of the mixed-race metaphor, but it's absent from the game. No one comments on it. I think engaging in a nontraditional romance should yield some comments, some outcry even, and then allow us to triumph over it. As Ziggehunderslash said, it would be quite powerful.

[Eveangaline]

highcastle wrote...

ziggehunderslash wrote...
What I'd like to see is an in game romance that actually attempts to tackle that discomfort, that questions it. I think that would be an enormously powerful story, even if the majority of people who would get the most from it would avoid it like the plague. I have wierd ideas about romance, I thought the best one in ME2 was Samara, which seems to confuse a lot of people.

I like this a lot, actually. One of the things I thought odd in DA:O was that no one really questioned your romance in certain circumstances. For instances, my human noble and Zevran. Forget same-sex, you also have a human in authority (or previously from authority) in a romance with a lower-class elf. The novels make a lot of the mixed-race metaphor, but it's absent from the game. No one comments on it. I think engaging in a nontraditional romance should yield some comments, some outcry even, and then allow us to triumph over it. As Ziggehunderslash said, it would be quite powerful.

Tho if that were possible I'm sure there would be a few people who would intentionally start to romance Zevran just so they could dumb him as soon as the going gets tough, prefrably in a horrible manner 'What? Me date an elf? That's absurd!'

I know this because if the option were available, I'd do it once or twice, I love **** playthroughs.

[TrackerTrem]

I wouldn't mind another elf, would be hot

[dgcatanisiri]

I really don't want another Zevran. I came around to him in the course of playing, but I don't quite feel secure about calling him a good love interest. He seems a lot more of the type to be jumping beds, and while the epilogues prove him faithful, if I were the Warden, I'd be concerned. Frankly, I was howling to the sky about how my male Warden can't romance Alistair when he's exactly the type I'd go for. So I'd like someone closer to the vein of Alistair over Zevran as my love interest. Someone who is loyal and dependable and enjoys a good laugh.

Also, I'd like some options - if you want to purely be involved in the same sex in DAO, you could only romance Zevran or pay for one of the Pearl's boys, whereas those who like women got Morrigan or Leilana, threesomes and even a foursome. If I want to play my male characters as solely interested in men, I don't want to be railroaded into a single romance.

[ok go]

just do the foursome with zev, everyone wins

[Darthnemesis2]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I really don't want another Zevran. I came around to him in the course of playing, but I don't quite feel secure about calling him a good love interest. He seems a lot more of the type to be jumping beds, and while the epilogues prove him faithful, if I were the Warden, I'd be concerned. Frankly, I was howling to the sky about how my male Warden can't romance Alistair when he's exactly the type I'd go for. So I'd like someone closer to the vein of Alistair over Zevran as my love interest. Someone who is loyal and dependable and enjoys a good laugh.
Also, I'd like some options - if you want to purely be involved in the same sex in DAO, you could only romance Zevran or pay for one of the Pearl's boys, whereas those who like women got Morrigan or Leilana, threesomes and even a foursome. If I want to play my male characters as solely interested in men, I don't want to be railroaded into a single romance.

huh? edit: unless you're talking about guys liking morrigan/liliana. I read it as girls having the option for both.

And I liked Zev *looks at sig bar* a lot.

Modifié par Darthnemesis2, 18 novembre 2010 - 05:46 .

[Ryzaki]

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I really don't want another Zevran. I came around to him in the course of playing, but I don't quite feel secure about calling him a good love interest. He seems a lot more of the type to be jumping beds, and while the epilogues prove him faithful, if I were the Warden, I'd be concerned. Frankly, I was howling to the sky about how my male Warden can't romance Alistair when he's exactly the type I'd go for. So I'd like someone closer to the vein of Alistair over Zevran as my love interest. Someone who is loyal and dependable and enjoys a good laugh.
Also, I'd like some options - if you want to purely be involved in the same sex in DAO, you could only romance Zevran or pay for one of the Pearl's boys, whereas those who like women got Morrigan or Leilana, threesomes and even a foursome. If I want to play my male characters as solely interested in men, I don't want to be railroaded into a single romance.

Uh...Morrigan only goes for dudes.

And you could still get a threesome as a guy with Zevran. ...could you get a foursome?

...granted the PC is more on the bi side but still...

Though I feel your pain about Alistair.

[Elite Midget]

You know... In DAO none of the Straight Romanceables could be courted by the same gender. Yet All of the Homosexual Romanceables were Bi.



That sounds offly fishy Bioware...



Give them a M/M and F/F only Romanceables already. Stop acting like those that mess with the same Gender also dabble with the opposite Gender as well!

[dgcatanisiri]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I really don't want another Zevran. I came around to him in the course of playing, but I don't quite feel secure about calling him a good love interest. He seems a lot more of the type to be jumping beds, and while the epilogues prove him faithful, if I were the Warden, I'd be concerned. Frankly, I was howling to the sky about how my male Warden can't romance Alistair when he's exactly the type I'd go for. So I'd like someone closer to the vein of Alistair over Zevran as my love interest. Someone who is loyal and dependable and enjoys a good laugh.
Also, I'd like some options - if you want to purely be involved in the same sex in DAO, you could only romance Zevran or pay for one of the Pearl's boys, whereas those who like women got Morrigan or Leilana, threesomes and even a foursome. If I want to play my male characters as solely interested in men, I don't want to be railroaded into a single romance.

huh? edit: unless you're talking about guys liking morrigan/liliana. I read it as girls having the option for both.

And I liked Zev *looks at sig bar* a lot.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I meant that heteros could romance Morrigan or Leilana or have threesomes with two female
characters (Leilana and Isabela), as well as the girls at the Pearl. Gay Wardens have Zevran or the Pearl boys as their only possibilities.

And I did come around to liking Zevran - my first impression of him was that he was a lot more of an undesirable than he turned out to be, and while I did come to like having him around, I still had that first impression lingering in my mind. I just can't quite picture him and the Warden walking off into the sunset.

[Dhiro]

Ryzaki wrote...

dgcatanisiri wrote...

I really don't want another Zevran. I came around to him in the course of playing, but I don't quite feel secure about calling him a good love interest. He seems a lot more of the type to be jumping beds, and while the epilogues prove him faithful, if I were the Warden, I'd be concerned. Frankly, I was howling to the sky about how my male Warden can't romance Alistair when he's exactly the type I'd go for. So I'd like someone closer to the vein of Alistair over Zevran as my love interest. Someone who is loyal and dependable and enjoys a good laugh.
Also, I'd like some options - if you want to purely be involved in the same sex in DAO, you could only romance Zevran or pay for one of the Pearl's boys, whereas those who like women got Morrigan or Leilana, threesomes and even a foursome. If I want to play my male characters as solely interested in men, I don't want to be railroaded into a single romance.

Uh...Morrigan only goes for dudes.

And you could still get a threesome as a guy with Zevran. ...could you get a foursome?

...granted the PC is more on the bi side but still...

Though I feel your pain about Alistair.

Yes, it would be a Isabela + Warden + Leliana + Zevran foursome. I'm almost sure you can put Alistair instead of Zevran, if he's hardened, too, but I guess it only works if you're romancing him. I'm not sure.

[Saibh]

Elite Midget wrote...

You know... In DAO none of the Straight Romanceables could be courted by the same gender. Yet All of the Homosexual Romanceables were Bi.

That sounds offly fishy Bioware...

Give them a M/M and F/F only Romanceables already. Stop acting like those that mess with the same Gender also dabble with the opposite Gender as well!

Are you serious about that first one? Straight people only like the opposite gender and that's fishy? If they weren't straight, they'd be bi or gay and it'd be a moot point.

In any case, it has to do with resources. The people who play gay romances are few in number. Devoting that much time and money and resources for a small niche of people is just not pertinent business-wise. I'm sure they'd do it if they could, but it's hard to justify from that perspective.

Dhiro wrote...

Yes, it would be a Isabela + Warden + Leliana + Zevran foursome. I'm almost sure you can put Alistair instead of Zevran, if he's hardened, too, but I guess it only works if you're romancing him. I'm not sure.

No, Alistair won't go on the Siren's Call with any of your team mates. Just a female Warden he is at Adore with and has already slept with, and if he has been hardened.

Modifié par Saibh, 18 novembre 2010 - 06:47 .

[Dhiro]

Indeed, what Saibh said is right, as aways.





And poor Leliana won't have her chance to see how athletic Alistair is by herself. Oh, well.

[Maria Caliban]

I have no problem with the love interests being only bisexual or straight. I appreciate all the same-sex romances BioWare has provided, whether or not they're 'my type.'

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 18 novembre 2010 - 06:53 .

[Dhiro]

Maria Caliban wrote...

I have no problem with the love interests being only bisexual or straight. I appreciate all the same-sex romances BioWare has provided, whether or not they're 'my type.'

Neither do I. There's no male/male fun in Mass Effect 2, and it's a good game, IMO. Of course, I can't help but found really nice when there's a gay option

[Elite Midget]

In ME2 a lot of early adopters might not have even bought the Kasumi DLC. Was she a waste of time, money, and resources?

In DA if you bought the game used or had no internet connection you missed out on Shale. Was Shale a waste of time, money, and resources?

If Bioware is going to make a Gay option than that Gay option shouldn't just be a Bi one as well while keeping Straight options as only Straight. If they aren't willing to put effort for those that want a legit Gay only option, just like the Straight only option, than why bother throwing them a mangled bone when all they have to do is turn and face to the side to see that Straight Gamers get a steak?

Modifié par Elite Midget, 18 novembre 2010 - 10:40 .

[Ninja Mage]

I think alot of the guys liked Alistair because he was ''off the table so to speak." If the roles had been reversed and Zevran was no nonsense straight guy and Alistair was the sleazy bi option I think we'd see different requests. I liked Alistair too, he was cute, and honestly he seemed a little gay to me. But for some reason I see Zevran as more of a long term thing and Alistair would be like

" I love you, but I have to be king! I'm breaking up with you so I can bear a child" blah blah and that would suck

[Elite Midget]

Zevran should have been a Gay Only option... I mean, Male Warden's can't romance Alistair and Female Warden's can't romance Morrigan.



Yet both Gender Wardens can romance Zevran and Leliena.



While there are no LI's that are exclusively gay only.

[highcastle]

Elite Midget wrote...
If Bioware is going to make a Gay option than that Gay option shouldn't just be a Bi one as well while keeping Straight options as only Straight. If they aren't willing to put effort for those that want a legit Gay only option, just like the Straight only option, than why bother throwing them a mangled bone when all they have to do is turn and face to the side to see that Straight Gamers get a steak?

While I agree with some of this in principle, the bottom line is it won't happen for marketing reasons. The gay options will always be bi (at least for the foreseeable future), because most people who romance those characters will do so with a hetero character. Sad truth that.

Also, the gay options in Origins were hardly mangled bones compared to the straight exclusives. I seem to be in the minority of folks who preferred Zevran to Alistair, but that's mostly because Al was a bit too innocent and it seemed clear there was more to Zev than was first apparent. Regardless of whether you liked the characters or not, a lot of time and effort went into writing all the romance arcs. They weren't afterthoughts.

Modifié par highcastle, 18 novembre 2010 - 12:56 .

[HopHazzard]

Elite Midget wrote...

In ME2 a lot of early adopters might not have even bought the Kasumi DLC. Was she a waste of time, money, and resources?

In DA if you bought the game used or had no internet connection you missed out on Shale. Was Shale a waste of time, money, and resources?

If Bioware is going to make a Gay option than that Gay option shouldn't just be a Bi one as well while keeping Straight options as only Straight. If they aren't willing to put effort for those that want a legit Gay only option, just like the Straight only option, than why bother throwing them a mangled bone when all they have to do is turn and face to the side to see that Straight Gamers get a steak?

Kasumi and Shale were optional content though. They knew up front that not all players would use them. The romances were always going to be part of the game for everyone so they had to appeal to as broad a range of players as possible.  Now if we're talking about a downloadble love interest, I can see them doing what you want. But as long as it's a part of the basic game I don't think it's feasible for them to create a romance option that only a very small percentage of players will pursue. That's a lot of time and money spent on something that very few people will use. It's just not efficient.

As a gay person myself, I disagree with your notion that we're being thrown a bone. They actually sat down and thought about and created content that people who want to pursue same sex romances would enjoy and managed to work that content into a game that would be played by a group of people, the larger portion of which, would never use that content. Throwing us a bone would be not giving us a s/s romance option but pointing at Wade and Herren and saying "See. There's gay people in the world. You're just not allowed to be one." That would be insulting.

[HopHazzard]

Ninja Mage wrote...

I think alot of the guys liked Alistair because he was ''off the table so to speak." If the roles had been reversed and Zevran was no nonsense straight guy and Alistair was the sleazy bi option I think we'd see different requests. I liked Alistair too, he was cute, and honestly he seemed a little gay to me. But for some reason I see Zevran as more of a long term thing and Alistair would be like
" I love you, but I have to be king! I'm breaking up with you so I can bear a child" blah blah and that would suck

Well, yes if you swapped their personalities you'd probably have the same thing (I don't want this sleazy bastard. Why can't I have suave elf?). But if Zevran were a sleazy womanizer and Alistair was a shy, romantic bi guy, you would not hear me complain. You're probably right about Alisatair dumping you for a woman if you make him king though.