2001 réponses à ce sujet

[Cobrawar]

about time

[Eromenos]

Bryy_Miller wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
That defiant portrayal is rightfully disrespectful towards homophobic attitudes and so its method is more beneficial to queer visibility because it refuses to be mired in tired old coming-out stories or struggles against homophobia which do nothing but paint us as people who can never escape the feeling of being cornered animals.

It's as if you would rather all gay-related depictions be geared mainly for the benefit of straight people who need educational PSAs to guilt them into at least seeing us as victims who don't deserve mistreatment. 

So, gays in media should be a middle finger to homophobia, but at the same time, not? Make up your mind. 

There's room for both. What I've been saying is that BioWare's track record has shown that they never dare to raise that middle-finger against homophobia. Every depiction so far has been nothing but exploitation.

Of the two methodologies I described and you quoted, of course I'd favor the first one if it were forced to be a choice between the two. But it should not have to be either one or the other. BioWare has been clinging only to the former out of wrongful respect for latent homophobia which compels too many folks still to denounce and or reject any images of queer people who can be self-affirming without being burdened by the BS of having to constantly make reassuring apologies for who we are, to placate people who don't "get" us.

It would be great if DA2 and beyond can allow room for the type of queer characterization as exemplified by Samuel Adama. I'm just not too hopeful, considering past and current examples.

Modifié par Eromenos, 02 janvier 2011 - 07:18 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Eromenos wrote...
blah blah rage blah

Then go boycott them already. That includes boycotting the social network. Leave us poor unenlightened self-hating homos to our masochistic video games that make us feel less than human without even realizing it. We'll never ever be as smart or clever or self aware as you. We would be sorry if we knew how but we're all dumb as stumps compared to you.
Pity us from afar please.

[Stanley Woo]

That's enough, Eromenos. We try to stay away from outright sociopolitical commentary in our games and in the forums. We acknowledge that there are many kinds of people in the world, but unfortunately, since they fall on a spectrum of beliefs, tolerances, biases, and opinions, it is impossible to fall anywhere on the spectrum without offending or annoying someone, no matter what we do.



So let's try and keep this discussion to the fictional world of Thedas and Dragon Age II, and leave the real-world social and political advocacy to real-life organizations, which you may wish to join or in whose communities you may wish to participate. Thank you.

[Eromenos]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
blah blah rage blah

Then go boycott them already. That includes boycotting the social network. Leave us poor unenlightened self-hating homos to our masochistic video games that make us feel less than human without even realizing it. We'll never ever be as smart or clever or self aware as you. We would be sorry if we knew how but we're all dumb as stumps compared to you.
Pity us from afar please.

Call 911?

Most of the other elements in these games are things which I enjoy. Choices/role-playing...up to the point where people like us are capped in ways that straight gamers are not. Enjoy that it if you will. As for you and I specifically, the code-register seems to allow all kinds to be here.

What shall be in DA2? M/M's been confirmed. Past M/M has not been any good. This time around potentially better? I can believe it if I see it.

Modifié par Eromenos, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:13 .

[Jimmy Fury]

Eromenos wrote...
Most of the other elements in these games are things which I enjoy. Choices/role-playing...up to the point where people like us are capped in ways that straight gamers are not. Enjoy that it if you will. As for you and I specifically, the code-register seems to allow all kinds to be here.

What shall be in DA2? M/M's been confirmed. Past M/M has not been any good. This time around potentially better? I can believe it if I see it.

1: Please don't say "people like us" as if you and I are anything alike. We're not. ( I almost prefaced that statement with "no offense" but then I realized that was quite unlikely.)
2: I never said you can't be here. I pointed out that it was illogical for you to be here given your extremely vocal hatred of Bioware and everything it does.
3: If you want to discuss what you'd like to see in a m/m romance in DA2 then please do. That is the purpose of the thread. Rant about real-world issues somewhere else. Start a topic in Fight For The Love or The Gay Wardens.

Me, I'd like to see a gruff ex-soldier who will promptly bash someones skull in for looking at Hawke the wrong way. Not so much anger issues as violence issues... A very calm sort of skull crushing. A zen doombringer if you will...

Modifié par Jimmy Fury, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:28 .

[Eromenos]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

Eromenos wrote...
Most of the other elements in these games are things which I enjoy. Choices/role-playing...up to the point where people like us are capped in ways that straight gamers are not. Enjoy that it if you will. As for you and I specifically, the code-register seems to allow all kinds to be here.

What shall be in DA2? M/M's been confirmed. Past M/M has not been any good. This time around potentially better? I can believe it if I see it.

1: Please don't say "people like us" as if you and I are anything alike. We're not. ( I almost prefaced that statement with "no offense" but then I realized that was quite unlikely.)
2: I never said you can't be here. I pointed out that it was illogical for you to be here given your extremely vocal hatred of Bioware and everything it does.
3: If you want to discuss what you'd like to see in a m/m romance in DA2 then please do. That is the purpose of the thread. Rant about real-world issues somewhere else. Start a topic in Fight For The Love or The Gay Wardens.

Me, I'd like to see a gruff ex-soldier who will promptly bash someones skull in for looking at Hawke the wrong way. Not so much anger issues as violence issues... A very calm sort of skull crushing. A zen doombringer if you will...

1. People like us? I see us as gay gamers who run up against homophobically-motivated fewer choices despite the fact we exhibit the same level of fondness as straight gamers do regarding the hopes and promises that should come with BioWare products. Mark the division between us, please, if you will.
2. IIRC, you wanted me gone from here. If that's no longer the case, it's wonderful to know.
3. Actually...I am active in Fight for the Love, at least in the thread bearing that title over in the ME General Forum. I'll give you all one guess as to my demeanor there.

What would I like to see for DA2 M/M? Truth be told I'd like to see the type of guy you proposed. M/M choices should include the leading male companion, not to mention all the potential male LIs in any case. I certainly hope there's going to be an attractive human man among those. One who has balls, can love men, and isn't ashamed of that in the least. Likelihood for any of this is 0.

As for what we have to work with so far...I'm not one for Varric. Fenris is thankfully better-looking than Zevran was, but that's not saying much.

Modifié par Eromenos, 02 janvier 2011 - 08:48 .

[Bobbyj0]

exoproto wrote...

Ouch. First poster is a troll.

Anyways, for a romance.. I think there's a number of things I would like to see, but won't go crazy if it's not there. For once, I'd like to have my guy with the dominant personality and as Universitas had stated before, "I'd love seeing an LI who doesn't realize his interest in men until joining up with Hawke. Someone who approaches a relationship a little more cautiously and less casually than Zevran did. "

I think it would be quite a change from the norm, if such a thing could even be considered just yet.

Agreed!!
i think it should be a character like Alistair. he was always the comic relief and he also enjoyed gossip haha. soo i think he should be a human. probly from royalty cuz weve already had someone from poverty, and also i think he should be a mage! He Knows about his bloodline and his personal quest, if bioware is doing those again, could be to reunite him with his family!!!

[YoziMaiden]

I think it's safe to assume that Varric will be the M/M love interest, because it seems all rogues are bi.

[Saibh]

YoziMaiden wrote...

I think it's safe to assume that Varric will be the M/M love interest, because it seems all rogues are bi.

I don't think Varric is a LI at all, honestly.

[Bryy_Miller]

Saibh wrote...

YoziMaiden wrote...

I think it's safe to assume that Varric will be the M/M love interest, because it seems all rogues are bi.

I don't think Varric is a LI at all, honestly.

That's actually the final shot of the game. Varric making out with Hawke. What a twist.

[Dave of Canada]

Saibh wrote..

I don't think Varric is a LI at all, honestly.

Way to shoot down my hopes and dreams, Saibh.

[Quinnzel]

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby would be beautiful...and exceptionally hairy.

[upsettingshorts]

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

[Saibh]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

Lyrium does everything.

[Quinnzel]

How does it happen? A wild night of nug throwing, quaffling the finest dwarven mead and an accident with lyrium.

[SleepyPerson]

Saibh wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

Lyrium does everything.

Enchantment!

[Jimmy Fury]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

Beard Magic. Beard Magic can do aaaaanything.
Seriously though, I concur with saibh. I doubt Varric will be a love interest at all. Gaider's disgust at dwarf romance aside it would remove the potential for endangered-LI-suspense. As the narrator you know automatically that Varric will survive any story he's telling... unlike Duncan who somehow narrated Origins from the grave....  
(beard magic!)

And @ Eromenos, if you're active in the FFTL thread then you should be familiar with my demeanor and what divides us. Review the FAQ that heads the thread. I make every stride to be positive and constructive in my stand against homophobia in video games. I see no logical use for vague anger and complaints when that time and energy could be spent finding facts, conceptualizing, and proposing new ideas.

[Bryy_Miller]

Quinnzel wrote...

How does it happen? A wild night of nug throwing, quaffling the finest dwarven mead and an accident with lyrium.

We just got Fenris' backstory.

[Maria Caliban]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

My FemWarden managed to knock up Morrigan. With the right bugs, anything is possible.

Also, there's a entire sub-genre of fanfiction related to this. I'll spare you a link but if you're ever interested google mpreg.

Saibh wrote...

I don't think Varric is a LI at all, honestly.

Same.

Fenris will be M/F only though.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 02 janvier 2011 - 09:13 .

[Bryy_Miller]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

My FemWarden managed to knock up Morrigan. With the right bugs, anything is possible.

Science is wonderful.

[Dhiro]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

My FemWarden managed to knock up Morrigan. With the right bugs, anything is possible.

Also, there's a entire sub-genre of fanfiction related to this. I'll spare you a link but if you're ever interested google mpreg.

Saibh wrote...

I don't think Varric is a LI at all, honestly.

Same.

Fenris will be M/F only though.

Ah, M-Preg. How do I love the way most fanficwriters explain it with "a wizard did it!".

[Saibh]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Quinnzel wrote...

Varic & maleHawke: Their baby

How does that work?

My FemWarden managed to knock up Morrigan. With the right bugs, anything is possible. 

Go on.

[Eromenos]

Jimmy Fury wrote...

And @ Eromenos, if you're active in the FFTL thread then you should be familiar with my demeanor and what divides us. Review the FAQ that heads the thread. I make every stride to be positive and constructive in my stand against homophobia in video games. I see no logical use for vague anger and complaints when that time and energy could be spent finding facts, conceptualizing, and proposing new ideas.

Vague? I feel like I'm being very direct in my criticisms against the homophobic containment and exploitation of our images that have lended excuses to the belief that token representation equates to inclusion.

Sorry, I can't recall your presence there. Just as you couldn't recall mine.

So, Fenris is reserved for M/F? How I do wonder who might be reserved for M/M.

I wonder.

[Dhiro]

I hope it's Varric :<