As with secret doors, it seems like the implementation of cursed items in NWN2 leaves a little something lacking. It should be possible to implement cursed items using tag-based scripting, but the fact that the system won't allow a player to equip a non-identified item makes curses ineffective.
One way to implement true cursed items would be to have a script trap a character's ability to perform a Lore skill check on an item. If the lore check fails, then perhaps a fake item could be inserted. As soon as the fake item is equipped, a tag-based script could replace it with the real cursed item. The scripts can then keep the item in the slot until it is uncursed. The hold-up, however, is trapping that first Lore skill check. Maybe there's a way to make a Lore skill check impossible, but use a tag-based script to apply a 1d20 Lore skill check?
By the way, is it just me, or does the Lore skill seem a little too powerful? I think it must be using a natural 20 roll to identify, because my test character is able to identify some pretty powerful hardware with a relatively low Lore skill.
Implementing cursed items
Débuté par
rjshae
, août 30 2010 08:22
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#2
Posté 30 août 2010 - 08:25
kamalpoe
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Item properties are sorely lacking in creative penalties that can be applied to items. It would have been great if you could auto-apply a spell effect to the player for instance.
#3
Guest_ElfinMad_*
Posté 30 août 2010 - 08:49
Guest_ElfinMad_*
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I agree that the having unidentified items unequipable makes cursed items useless.
One way around it that I was thinking of using, if I get around to it in my mod (and I thought the BG team were doing something similar), was to make a blueprint for each equipable item that describes the object as magical and unidentified but has no magical properties itself, therefore making it equipable. These blueprints would have a string variable set on them which identifies the identified (magical) item they represent.
Using tag based scripting you could do a lore check when the item is acquired to see if it can be identified and if the player equips the item without identifying you can swap it out with the real item using another tag based script for the on equip.
Of course the item will be identified when it is equiped but by that time it shall be stuck in the equipment slot and require a remove curse spell.
One way around it that I was thinking of using, if I get around to it in my mod (and I thought the BG team were doing something similar), was to make a blueprint for each equipable item that describes the object as magical and unidentified but has no magical properties itself, therefore making it equipable. These blueprints would have a string variable set on them which identifies the identified (magical) item they represent.
Using tag based scripting you could do a lore check when the item is acquired to see if it can be identified and if the player equips the item without identifying you can swap it out with the real item using another tag based script for the on equip.
Of course the item will be identified when it is equiped but by that time it shall be stuck in the equipment slot and require a remove curse spell.
#4
Posté 30 août 2010 - 09:21
Kaldor Silverwand
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You could have the item have a positive description (ooh a +2 dagger). You could just have the equip script check to see if wearer has a high enough lore skill. If he does then force unequip the item with a message that it is cursed. If he does not then equip the item and change its characteristics to be negative. It would also need an unequip script to prevent it from being unequipped unless it is de-cursed, and a spell cast at script to allow it to be de-cursed using remove curse and unequipped. I assume that remove curse can be cast at an item.
#5
Guest_ElfinMad_*
Posté 30 août 2010 - 09:40
Guest_ElfinMad_*
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I assumed the cursed check box makes the item unequipable? What does that option in the properties tab do?
#6
Posté 30 août 2010 - 09:44
Kaldor Silverwand
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The cursed check box only prevents an item from being removed from inventory. It can still be unequipped. For your purposes you don't need to use it at all.
Modifié par Kaldor Silverwand, 30 août 2010 - 09:46 .
#7
Posté 31 août 2010 - 04:09
rjshae
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Kaldor Silverwand wrote...
You could have the item have a positive description (ooh a +2 dagger). You could just have the equip script check to see if wearer has a high enough lore skill. If he does then force unequip the item with a message that it is cursed. If he does not then equip the item and change its characteristics to be negative. It would also need an unequip script to prevent it from being unequipped unless it is de-cursed, and a spell cast at script to allow it to be de-cursed using remove curse and unequipped. I assume that remove curse can be cast at an item.
Yes, I think that's a nice idea. It should work, unless perhaps it is identified by one character then equipped by another. Possibly an acquire tag-based script could be used to track the highest lore rank to acquire the item, as a localvariable on the item?
The unequip script should be able to check the cursed status to see whether to put it back or not. Putting it back in an equiped item slot is perhaps a problematic thing, because sometimes I've seen commands get ignored due to a combat interruption.
Something I've noticed about applying itemproperties to an item via a script is that the properties don't go into effect right away. They only become active when the item is relocated, say to another PC. To get around this I had to make a copy of the item on the owning creature, then destroy the original copy; thereby activating the properties. However, destroying the item might be problematic if the item was just equipped. It'd be nice if there was another way to activate the properties; some type of property reload/refresh.
One other issue is that a cursed item can be removed by selling it. It looks like that can be worked around by setting the net cost to zero, setting Plot to TRUE, or perhaps using an unacquire script to put it back.
Thanks. :happy:
Modifié par rjshae, 31 août 2010 - 04:14 .
#8
Posté 31 août 2010 - 04:38
The Fred
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Cursed items are more than doable. I made quite an extensive system for NWN1, and if you read the Baldur's Gate Remake thread, Shallina has done much the same in NWN2 (in fact, she says it's easier in NWN2 since you don't need some of the safety checks you do in NWN1, for - for example - re-unequipping items while paused, swapping out items etc).
You can't equip unidentified items, but you can force a Lore or Spellcraft check when the item is used or equipped, and replace the item with a cursed version. With NWN2 GUI power, you could probably hack the Examine screen to do the check as normal and show an "unidentified" screen even when the item is identified (though you wouldn't get the blue glow on the icon) - I haven't tried this myself, though.
Kamalpoe mentioned spell effects - these are more than possible too, but you need to use event scripting (tag-based can work here) for this too.
You can't equip unidentified items, but you can force a Lore or Spellcraft check when the item is used or equipped, and replace the item with a cursed version. With NWN2 GUI power, you could probably hack the Examine screen to do the check as normal and show an "unidentified" screen even when the item is identified (though you wouldn't get the blue glow on the icon) - I haven't tried this myself, though.
Kamalpoe mentioned spell effects - these are more than possible too, but you need to use event scripting (tag-based can work here) for this too.
#9
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 04:09
LeeMer47
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You make the blueprint as identified and ID it as some minor good item you'd like to use (part of a curse is that it looks like you would want to use it, so you ID it wrong). Then when readied trade it for a cursed item that re-equips whenever you try to unequip it (the curse takes effect).
#10
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 11:14
The Fred
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Yeah, I'm planning on making cursed items for my own campaign, and this is probably how I'll tackle it.
#11
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 12:42
Morbane
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I look at cursed items kind of like the One Ring from LoTR - the owner desires it because they think it is something it is not - thus they immediately equip it caring not for any consequence.
#12
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 04:32
rjshae
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Morbane wrote...
I look at cursed items kind of like the One Ring from LoTR - the owner desires it because they think it is something it is not - thus they immediately equip it caring not for any consequence.
You can have a number of different types of cursed items. For example, see section II of this Cursed Items article. Unfortunately, most of those types would be difficult to implement in the toolset.
Modifié par rjshae, 01 septembre 2010 - 04:32 .
#13
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 06:23
Hellfire_RWS
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There is a very good NWN1 mod that does Cursed items right.
The module is I3 Pharaoh and available on request here
When you pick the item up in question it has a very nice description. but once acquired you can not give it away or sell it, once equiped you can not unequip and you attack anything nearby including friendlies.
I have no idea how its done but I will ask him if he will psot the code.
The module is I3 Pharaoh and available on request here
When you pick the item up in question it has a very nice description. but once acquired you can not give it away or sell it, once equiped you can not unequip and you attack anything nearby including friendlies.
I have no idea how its done but I will ask him if he will psot the code.
#14
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 06:38
The Fred
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Evil intelligent items might or might not be considered cursed, but would be pretty cool anyway. This is something I plan to do sometime, too, but it'd be quite a bit of work to do it well.
#15
Posté 01 septembre 2010 - 10:02
Kaldor Silverwand
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rjshae wrote...
Something I've noticed about applying itemproperties to an item via a script is that the properties don't go into effect right away. They only become active when the item is relocated, say to another PC. To get around this I had to make a copy of the item on the owning creature, then destroy the original copy; thereby activating the properties. However, destroying the item might be problematic if the item was just equipped. It'd be nice if there was another way to activate the properties; some type of property reload/refresh.
I haven't seen that problem with my Nasher set fix scripts. You can find them in the vault. I have some other set based items that alter properties as well available on the vault.
Regards
#16
Posté 07 septembre 2010 - 01:14
Shaughn78
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For my campaign I have been working onseveral different types of curse items.
The first is an amulet that drains the players int and wisdom while giving them strength. They must make a will save when they aquire the item, remove the item or unaquire the item, to resist the temptation to put it on. Each save increases by +1 so eventually the player will be unable to remove the item. When equipped they must make a fortitude save or suffer additional penalties from the item.
Another set of scripts I have created takes an item and when it is aquired a lore check is done. It has two levels, the first is just a hint that something is wierd about the item the harder one correctly IDs the item. If the lore check fails they get a fake item. Say Ring of Protection +3, when equipped the nature of the ring revealed and turns into a ring of protection -3 and the curse flag is set to TRUE. The unequip scrip does not allow a cursed item to be revomed and re-equips it.
The first is an amulet that drains the players int and wisdom while giving them strength. They must make a will save when they aquire the item, remove the item or unaquire the item, to resist the temptation to put it on. Each save increases by +1 so eventually the player will be unable to remove the item. When equipped they must make a fortitude save or suffer additional penalties from the item.
Another set of scripts I have created takes an item and when it is aquired a lore check is done. It has two levels, the first is just a hint that something is wierd about the item the harder one correctly IDs the item. If the lore check fails they get a fake item. Say Ring of Protection +3, when equipped the nature of the ring revealed and turns into a ring of protection -3 and the curse flag is set to TRUE. The unequip scrip does not allow a cursed item to be revomed and re-equips it.
#17
Posté 07 septembre 2010 - 03:49
rjshae
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Kaldor Silverwand wrote...
rjshae wrote...
Something I've noticed about applying itemproperties to an item via a script is that the properties don't go into effect right away. They only become active when the item is relocated, say to another PC. To get around this I had to make a copy of the item on the owning creature, then destroy the original copy; thereby activating the properties. However, destroying the item might be problematic if the item was just equipped. It'd be nice if there was another way to activate the properties; some type of property reload/refresh.
I haven't seen that problem with my Nasher set fix scripts. You can find them in the vault. I have some other set based items that alter properties as well available on the vault.
Regards
Hmm, okay. Possibly then it only a problem for certain item properties.
#18
Posté 07 septembre 2010 - 03:52
rjshae
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Shaughn78 wrote...
For my campaign I have been working onseveral different types of curse items.
The first is an amulet that drains the players int and wisdom while giving them strength. They must make a will save when they aquire the item, remove the item or unaquire the item, to resist the temptation to put it on. Each save increases by +1 so eventually the player will be unable to remove the item. When equipped they must make a fortitude save or suffer additional penalties from the item.
Another set of scripts I have created takes an item and when it is aquired a lore check is done. It has two levels, the first is just a hint that something is wierd about the item the harder one correctly IDs the item. If the lore check fails they get a fake item. Say Ring of Protection +3, when equipped the nature of the ring revealed and turns into a ring of protection -3 and the curse flag is set to TRUE. The unequip scrip does not allow a cursed item to be revomed and re-equips it.
Sounds nasty. I was thinking it would be nice to have a diverse set of curse routines that a module builder could use in their campaign. Perhaps in a curse add-on pack on the vault? :innocent:
#19
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 12:22
Friar
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Yeah the curse routine is lacking although you gave me an idea. Create a lore book that explains an event where a hero faced an evil spectre. In deep desperation he took hold of a cursed sword knowing full well of the dangers. It turned out that this sword was the only thing that could damage the spirit. At the end of the battle the curse erased itself from the sword and it pulsated with magical properties.
In the game you could arrange a script that checks to see if a specific cursed item is equipped at the end of a battle and then run a takeobject on the cursed item and then run a createobject on a new and better item. The item will appear to be the same object but the player will not know the difference and you just found a schnazzy way of using cursed items.
In the game you could arrange a script that checks to see if a specific cursed item is equipped at the end of a battle and then run a takeobject on the cursed item and then run a createobject on a new and better item. The item will appear to be the same object but the player will not know the difference and you just found a schnazzy way of using cursed items.
#20
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 06:05
rjshae
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Yes, a cursed item that recharges it's powers upon slaying certain types of opponents (and becomes less debilitating) would also have interesting possibilities. Like a bloodlust curse. Use of the charges could then cause a restoration of the more debilitating properties by means of a tag-based script.
#21
Posté 08 septembre 2010 - 06:57
The Fred
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Perhaps you could have an item which is cursed not by malicious intent but for some reason akin to why a ghost might haunt somewhere (perhaps, in fact, the item is indeed haunted) and the player can break the curse somehow to make the item useful again.
#22
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 07:33
Kaldor Silverwand
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Kaldor Silverwand wrote...
You could have the item have a positive description (ooh a +2 dagger). You could just have the equip script check to see if wearer has a high enough lore skill. If he does then force unequip the item with a message that it is cursed. If he does not then equip the item and change its characteristics to be negative. It would also need an unequip script to prevent it from being unequipped unless it is de-cursed, and a spell cast at script to allow it to be de-cursed using remove curse and unequipped. I assume that remove curse can be cast at an item.
Just occurred to me that if you do it this way you also need to consider making the item a plot item or reduce its value to 0 so that it cannot be sold, otherwise you could sell it for value even though it is cursed. I suppose you could assume the storekeeper wouldn't know the difference and allow it though.
#23
Posté 12 septembre 2010 - 07:36
Kaldor Silverwand
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Shaughn78 wrote...
Another set of scripts I have created takes an item and when it is aquired a lore check is done. It has two levels, the first is just a hint that something is wierd about the item the harder one correctly IDs the item. If the lore check fails they get a fake item. Say Ring of Protection +3, when equipped the nature of the ring revealed and turns into a ring of protection -3 and the curse flag is set to TRUE. The unequip scrip does not allow a cursed item to be revomed and re-equips it.
This sounds pretty good. I'd also like to be able to remove the item or possibly destroy it via the remove curse spell though.
Regards
