1851 réponses à ce sujet

[Riona45]

MariSkep wrote...


Doesn't a mage have to sprint around battle delivering her spells where needed and avoiding the enemy? And would she still have to drag around her tent, supplies ect and keep up with everyone else? The image of a mage being this weakling who can't do anything on the battle field is just as stupid as the overly endowed woman warrior.

Yeah, even aside from the boob issue I'm rather tired of the "weakling mage" stereotype, at least where it concerns PC and party members.

EDIT:  Although, as I mentioned earlier, we don't know if Bethany is a permanent party member yet.

Modifié par Riona45, 31 août 2010 - 03:23 .

[AuraofMana]

MariSkep wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Besides, isn't Bethany a mage? no need to be like a steroided olympics athlete, boobs on her are fine.

Doesn't
a mage have to sprint around battle delivering her spells where needed
and avoiding the enemy? And would she still have to drag around her
tent, supplies ect and keep up with everyone else? The image of a mage
being this weakling who can't do anything on the battle field is just as
stupid as the overly endowed woman warrior.

You can't develop that kind of muscles by simply running around and traveling with a huge backpack. If you don't believe me, try it yourself...

TBH, Bioware can always pull something like "these people are different than humans on Earth" or "magic" to avoid this topic, so if anyone is actually holding his or her breath about this subject... well... You have to understand, most people do not have a problem with any of these, and I doubt any of you will skip out on the game if Bioware doesn't change this (not to mention this is better economically), so I don't think this will happen. Thus, debating (or arguing, if you prefer) on this is rather pointless.

Modifié par AuraofMana, 31 août 2010 - 03:24 .

[Maverick827]

AuraofMana wrote...

Maverick827 wrote...

The reason why the comparison to male character models doesn't hold is that a "ripped" hero makes sense; hell, it's actually a by-product of being so athletic and active and actually aids the hero.  A heroine obviously does not
grow her breasts in a similar fashion, and such proportions would actually be a hindrance in melee combat.

Wrong. If you want to be realistic, then whatever male models they've been showing are exaggerated. This is not to mention muscles that develop based on combat looks completely different than muscles developed by working out or doing arduous labors.
In addition, this muscle stereotype only works if your character is a strength type character, while other possibilities, such as DW Warriors, Rogues, and Mages should not follow this stereotype.
It just seems like most people are not happy about this because most people who post about this are the ones who are unhappy.

Which is something that I've already said.  I've already expressed my favor for a "body slider" because I want my rogues to be lithe and my mages to be scrawny.  That still doesn't refute the fact that being in shape is largely a benefit, even on a mage if that is to be the case.

[Saibh]

AuraofMana wrote...

Wrong. If you want to be realistic, then whatever male models they've been showing are exaggerated. This is not to mention muscles that develop based on combat looks completely different than muscles developed by working out or doing arduous labors.
In addition, this muscle stereotype only works if your character is a strength type character, while other possibilities, such as DW Warriors, Rogues, and Mages should not follow this stereotype.
It just seems like most people are not happy about this because most people who post about this are the ones who are unhappy.

It is the far-end of idealism, but it still makes more sense then girls stomping around in chainmail bikinis and such.

Regardless, as I have pointed out, the presence of one doesn't justify the other. Both can use a change.

[Lyssistr]

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

 Besides, isn't Bethany a mage? no need to be like a steroided olympics athlete, boobs on her are fine.

Well, of course. She doesn't have to run around, just to stand still and use magic.
And people, we haven't seen the other female companions.

Just sayin coz I've seen many times that boobs make it hard for her to fight. Boobs are fine for mages!

Hey, I wasn't being sarcastic.
I don't have a problem with her boobs

Me neither . They shouldn't remove any more "content" from DA2, nor "dumb it down" any further 

[mosaiclobster]

AuraofMana wrote...

Saibh wrote...
If you don't understand, I don't think I could explain it to you. It's not something you care about, so I don't think you have the empathy to understand at all. I don't mean that as an insult, but you don't seem to get that women want to play an avatar they think looks cool; that looks tough and heroic. Not necessarily masculine or non-feminine, but able to hold her own. For most of us, we see breasts that big and think "ouch, back problems; I bet she has trouble running", as well as rolling our eyes that our character models have been idealized to match your (well, men's) fantasies.

mosaiclobster wrote...
I
think it's different because, as a rule, men are making video games for
men. There are quite a few female gamers out there, but there are very
few of us in game design and development. I'm in a game design class,
and I'm one of 3 girls in a class of nearly 30. It's easy for guys not
to care about male representation because there's a wider range of male
protagonists out there, and it's still (almost always) a guy's vision of
what a guy wants to play as. It's harder to just say "whatever" about
how women's bodies are shown in video games when we have almost no say
in how those bodies are rendered, you know? It's a totally different
perspective.

But the issue is that not everyone likes what they get to see or play in video games. It's a common issue that has nothing to do with the sex of the player. Everyone has his or her own preferences, and I hardly doubt Bioware will include extensive character creation capabilities just so everyone can be happy.
I can relate with this based on the fact that I am Chinese, and most heroes in video games are not Chinese, let alone Asian. However, I've realized long ago that it is not a big issue because this is a video game, and not a representation of real life.
You can argue that if Bioware does include some amazing character creation capabilities it would satisfy everyone, however then someone is going to unhappy that certain NPC's didn't look like the way he/she envisioned. This is because everyone has a different perspective and preference, thus nothing should ever go 100% your way (if it does, you found your soul mate, gratz!) In addition, if the game is supposed to be more realistic, they have bigger areas to work on than this.

I think your comparison would be even more relevant if this was an issue of women not being represented at all. Rather, the problem is that women are being represented absurdly/unrealistically in many video games, and female players find it completely unrelatable, if not offensive. Now, if we were to talk about the fact that asian people are always ninjas or zen masters in video games, I think that's more to the point. And no, not everyone gets what they want, that would be impossible. But females are already an option in character creation. If women feel that the standard female PC or NPC does not reflect what they want to roleplay as, I think that's a valid problem, especially because these female characters are traditionally designed to appeal to men.. given how many more female gamers there are nowadays, isn't it time the target market changed a little, at least in this one regard?

[AuraofMana]

MariSkep wrote...
Yes they do. They create all sorts of problem when you have to be incredibly active. And even if she weren't sprinting back and forth on a battlefield she'd still have to lug all her gear around hiking to and fro all over Fereldan and the DD's are definitely going to make the experience all the more unpleasant.

IDK, I've seen some women do crazier things just to look pretty.

[Elessara]

MariSkep - tell that to the elf mage I made in D&D ... with a 5 strength. She could barely carry her own spellbook. It was sad.

At any rate I would prefer seeing more realistic proportions on all characters, male or female. Never once in DAO did I see a female char and think, "Wow how does she stand upright? Her back must be killing her." And never once did I see a male char and think, "Dang he needs to lay off the steroids." Which was nice.

[Lyssistr]

MariSkep wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

MariSkep wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

 Besides, isn't Bethany a mage? no need to be like a steroided olympics athlete, boobs on her are fine.

Doesn't a mage have to sprint around battle delivering her spells where needed and avoiding the enemy? And would she still have to drag around her tent, supplies ect and keep up with everyone else? The image of a mage being this weakling who can't do anything on the battle field is just as stupid as the overly endowed woman warrior.

Many mages are like that, also Bethany isn't like a super skinny weakling but still it doesn't matter if she has to move a little, she's a mage. Mages don't requite good physique per se, not that boobs imply bad physique.

Yes they do. They create all sorts of problem when you have to be incredibly active. And even if she weren't sprinting back and forth on a battlefield she'd still have to lug all her gear around hiking to and fro all over Fereldan and the DD's are definitely going to make the experience all the more unpleasant.

Gandalf, Dumbledore weren't fit, both old men. A mage is not commonly perceived as someone who *needs* to be fit to perform in battle, he uses magic.

[Saibh]

AuraofMana wrote...

But the issue is that not everyone likes what they get to see or play in video games. It's a common issue that has nothing to do with the sex of the player. Everyone has his or her own preferences, and I hardly doubt Bioware will include extensive character creation capabilities just so everyone can be happy.
I can relate with this based on the fact that I am Chinese, and most heroes in video games are not Chinese, let alone Asian. However, I've realized long ago that it is not a big issue because this is a video game, and not a representation of real life.
You can argue that if Bioware does include some amazing character creation capabilities it would satisfy everyone, however then someone is going to unhappy that certain NPC's didn't look like the way he/she envisioned. This is because everyone has a different perspective and preference, thus nothing should ever go 100% your way (if it does, you found your soul mate, gratz!) In addition, if the game is supposed to be more realistic, they have bigger areas to work on than this.

As with all things you enjoy, why should you want to enjoy them more? That's plain silly.

Again, BioWare has already done body proportions that please everyone, and they can do it again. Also, women occupy half of the game's population, and a very large chunk of the fanbase.

[Lyssistr]

Riona45 wrote...

MariSkep wrote...


Doesn't a mage have to sprint around battle delivering her spells where needed and avoiding the enemy? And would she still have to drag around her tent, supplies ect and keep up with everyone else? The image of a mage being this weakling who can't do anything on the battle field is just as stupid as the overly endowed woman warrior.

Yeah, even aside from the boob issue I'm rather tired of the "weakling mage" stereotype, at least where it concerns PC and party members.

EDIT:  Although, as I mentioned earlier, we don't know if Bethany is a permanent party member yet.

Well, Bethany's no weak girl, just look at those boobs!

[Erode_The_Soul]

I've never been incredibly bothered by the "eye candy" factor, since it's been standard practice to prance around as a Playboy model with a sword provided they even bother with the choice in the first place. But it does make me take the game I'm playing A LOT less seriously. It seems like such a cheap cop-out to me (and I reiterate, this is my opinion) and I can't help but roll my eyes when such a character saunters on screen. This woman lacks something about her character, so the devs tack on a huge rack and hope you don't notice. Or even worse, this game seriously lacks something to make it worth while, so here's some bouncing and jiggling and giggling, just don't call us on it *finger guns*.



Bioware strikes me as better than that, and they certainly have a reputation for being better than that, but I can't say that I'm not worried, what with the screenshot and the assurance that LadyHawke will be "hot" (not a bad thing by any means, but certainly not the most important) and all. I hope that Bethany is not the norm, but if she is, I certainly hope she's not the dev's attempt to compensate for other shortcomings...

[tmp7704]

Saibh wrote...

If generalizations weren't allowed, then BioWare could make no decisions regarding preferences. Why are the men, in a movie/game geared towards men, so ridiculously ripped and beefy? Because that's what would appeal to men's taste for a manly movie/game.

Tbh i think large part of that is simply result of "gym race" between actors competing for the roles. It is a pretty new thing -- compare men starring in movies made in the 70's and nowadays, and the difference in physique of average male appearing on screen is staggering.

It's not as much they're picked "because that appeals to men's tastes" but probably because that's what the majority of people who try (and actually manage) to break into movie industry looks like. More mundane specimens get glanced over and discarded as ugly in comparison, and so this (un)natural selection is very much self-propelling.

And frankly, it's getting to point as ridiculous as these oversized busts on the females. DAO is pretty bad in this aspect, especially if you check the light armour male models. They're so barrel-chested they resemble apes more than humans (i mean humans and elves here, dwarves get a pass because well, dwarves)

[AuraofMana]

Saibh wrote...
As with all things you enjoy, why should you want to enjoy them more? That's plain silly.

Again, BioWare has already done body proportions that please everyone, and they can do it again. Also, women occupy half of the game's population, and a very large chunk of the fanbase.

Girls keep telling me that, but I never meet them IRL  Where do all of you hide?

[dislye]

Captain Hex wrote...

*sigh* I get that you have a crusade on against playing as a large breasted woman for some reason, but do you really have to start getting into what's "normal" or not? Women come in all shapes and sizes. Those who deviate from some defined "average" are not any less "normal" than any other. Human beings are variable. It's really not fair to simply single out one body type and declare that it is somehow abnormal. How about just leaving it as being not to your tastes?

 just when I was starting to lose hope in this thread I came across this I feel SO bad for women with larger breast when they are talked about as if they are freaks or something I know plenty of women with large breast, some with very large breast and I know for a fact they are indeed natural. Every woman is not built the same, nor should they be. The different race in DA could honestly represent humans in reality. Since we are talking about women I will leave males out.

 The dwarves represent thicker women, the elves stand in for the thinner women with smaller smaller breast (go figure), the Quanari are equivalent to women an advanced athletic fitness, and the humans represent the women with a more idealistic look, though many woman are built like that in reality. Will Hawke have large breast? It is likely. Personally, I think all the models look well. While some of you dislike what you have seen so far you have to be more accepting. Will big breasts really ruin the game for any of you? I hope not, but we can't always have what we want. There are things I would like that will not be in the game and I am perfectly fine with it. The fact the breasts are getting many of you worked up alone is enough to be thankful, because there could have been some really serious problems to point out and there are none.

[wwwwowwww]

If guys are looking for their eye candy in the form of a video game then there are far bigger issues to deal with.

[Saibh]

Lyssistr wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

Lord_Valandil wrote...

Lyssistr wrote...

 Besides, isn't Bethany a mage? no need to be like a steroided olympics athlete, boobs on her are fine.

Well, of course. She doesn't have to run around, just to stand still and use magic.
And people, we haven't seen the other female companions.

Just sayin coz I've seen many times that boobs make it hard for her to fight. Boobs are fine for mages!

Hey, I wasn't being sarcastic.
I don't have a problem with her boobs

Me neither . They shouldn't remove any more "content" from DA2, nor "dumb it down" any further 

Dumb it down.

You consider gigantic breasts to be the epitome of intelligence? Why not, if they're large enough to stuff a brain in each. Big boobs aren't stupid any more then they are "intelligent". And averaging out character bust size is also not removing content.