238 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr. niceguy15]

didymos1120 wrote...

Nahal The Reckless wrote...

Here are a couple screenshots of stuff that made the situation on Chasca very unambiguous to me.  (The second one in particular.)  Maybe they can do the same for someone else here.

Screenshot 1.
Screenshot 2.

Yeah, I know about those. Ignoring that they are themselves a bit ambiguous ("logs seem to indicate", etc.) and assuming for the sake of argument that they were intended to be conclusive, Bioware may have changed their mind on that.  Miranda's dialogue in ME2 could have been meant to "exonerate" them to a degree.  Or it could just mean Miranda doesn't know all the details and assumes that's what really happened.  Hence, ambiguous. At best.

Personally, I lean towards "guilty" myself,  but I'm not at all certain of that, screenshots or no.

Aside: if you let Feros bite it, the Citadel ads will exhort you to invest in Chasca instead.

My thoughts exactly aswell. Guess we'll learn in ME3. By the way, nice avatar didymos, although your former one also rocked. Always reminded me of a Collector though


- A nice guy.

[Aedan_Cousland]

The Illusive Man sanctioned a terrorist act above the planet Yandoa that exposed infants to element zero in an effort to create biotics. In addition to the children born with biotic abilities however, many were born with birth defects and tumors. Gillian Grayson was one of the children from Yandoa that was born with biotic abilities, however her autism may have also been the result of exposure to element zero while in the womb. TIM also sanctioned experiments on Gillian Grayson to try and increase her biotic ability, including regular injections that seemed to worsen her autism.

There are some people working for Cerberus who aren't outright evil, like Jacob or Miranda, but the organization itself is evil. The Illusive Man also bears responsibility for most of the crimes committed by Cerberus. They occur with his sanction and through his funding.

[Sajuro]

Mr. niceguy15 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Thresher Maw's needed to be tested somehow

?

Well then, we should test the effects of reaper indoctrination on humans.

- A nice guy.

Better yet, lets test the effects of getting shot in the head, the first test subject goes by 'The Illusive Man"... in the name of science!

[mosor]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Illusive Man sanctioned a terrorist act above the planet Yandoa that exposed infants to element zero in an effort to create biotics. In addition to the children born with biotic abilities however, many were born with birth defects and tumors. Gillian Grayson was one of the children from Yandoa that was born with biotic abilities, however her autism may have also been the result of exposure to element zero while in the womb. TIM also sanctioned experiments on Gillian Grayson to try and increase her biotic ability, including regular injections that seemed to worsen her autism.

There are some people working for Cerberus who aren't outright evil, like Jacob or Miranda, but the organization itself is evil. The Illusive Man also bears responsibility for most of the crimes committed by Cerberus. They occur with his sanction and through his funding.

None of what you wrote can be considered a terrorist act. Terrorism is about spreading fear to gain some political gain. What you wrote here is Cerberus making supermen. Morally questionable, but not terrorism.

[ExtremeOne]

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

Cerberus was a apart of the Alliance and Akuze was their operation.

Point to where I call Cerberus "Rogue" and you win a cookie.
[/quote]

So why not call it "the Alliance's crimes"?

That would include all the Cerberus crimes, plus the very creation of Cerberus, plus the crimes Cerberus has no relation to. You'd get a bigger list...[/quote]

You could argue that the Alliance is just as much to blame for Akuze as Cerberus. But the Alliance isn't responsible for every crime Cerberus committed after the Alliance kicked them out on their asses.
[/quote]   


Oh the hell they are because as the story goes Cerberus was once part of the alliance so in fact the alliance has committed those crimes as well. its high time you and the rest of the alliance fans wake up and start dealing with the fact Cerberus did nothing wrong in ME 1 because they were part of the alliance. Its only you die hard ME 1 fans that keep this stupid myth going about Cerberus being evil 
[/quote]

Really?  Have you read Retribution yet?   Because that book was a game changer for me on my outlook on Cerberus and TIM.    

[/quote


No but then again I am not interested in the books 
[/quote]

You should read them, they're canon after all and one always comes before the next ME game.   So they do a good job of setting up the framework for the next gaming chapter.  And if you read them, your view of Cerberus and the Illusive Man WILL most certainly change as mine did.

I was never a Cerberus cheerleader, but I always thought, "Here's an organization that's committed to getting the job done no matter the cost."   I admired that TIM isn't just going to sit on his butt like everyone else and wait for the Reapers to purge the galaxy.  I admired that he WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of worrying about a public panic the way the Citadel governments are. The public SHOULD be panicked.  With the TIM I accepted that he wasn't a hero in the traditional sense,  I accepted that despite himself and his organization, he was simply the man who rose to the occasion.

But after the last two novels, I can see that TIM is just as dangerous to humanity as the Reapers.  He and his organization have gone ALOT further down the dark path than the last novel.  ME2 just focused on his dealings with Shepard, but elsewhere TIM has been getting his hands very bloody.  

And despite his best aspirations and hopes for humanity, his actions in Retribution invokes well know quotations that fit his character perfectly.

"He who fights with monsters should be careful least he thereby becomes
a monster. When you stare at the abyss, the abyss stares back at you." 

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"


[/quote]   


so what about the alliance and the council. you know I am so tired of the bullsh*t about its always Cerberus who is evil . Cerberus was a part of the alliance and dam it that means the alliance is at fault. but oh I see what all this is about ME 1 fans who believe every dam thing the alliance and those 3 stupid racist pigs on the council say. well guess what did they bring Shepard back hell no. Anderson is a bastard for turning on Shepard. Cerberus gets the job done no matter what. 

[MisterDyslexo]

This is not the thread post you are looking for

Modifié par MisterDyslexo, 31 août 2010 - 10:02 .

[Arijharn]

Mr. niceguy15 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Thresher Maw's needed to be tested somehow

?

Well then, we should test the effects of reaper indoctrination on humans. Come on guys, let's go round up some unsuspecting civilians!    Come on? The Thresher Maws's obviously kill. No need to waste lives to "find" that out.


- A nice guy.

If you're done making your lame joke, I challenge you to actually think about it. It's about testing if anything adequate counter-measures. Even if one was to assume that they were deliberately dropped onto Akuze for the express purpose of fighting a Thresher Maw, the alliance still didn't know what options could prove effective. I.e., what level of force is needed. I.e., is the best way to deal with a Thresher Maw if anything by mass accelerator round from orbit? Can small arms suffice (hint yes; you get more XP that way!) or will tank cannon be the minimum level of engagement?

Who knows, perhaps the Akuze incident enabled all colonies this side of the Terminus Systems be equipped with heavier firepower, and is why the Grizzly (later Mako and now perhaps the Hammerhead) is outfitted to Naval frigates.

But, I fail to see even in the worst case scenario of why sending marines onto Akuze is in the first place an 'evil' thing to do since the marines are supposed to respond to emergencies, they are supposed to defend human interests. Is it the fact that Cerberus is connected to it that makes a rather routine response now somehow dubious?

[MisterDyslexo]

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

Cerberus was a apart of the Alliance and Akuze was their operation.

Point to where I call Cerberus "Rogue" and you win a cookie.
[/quote]

So why not call it "the Alliance's crimes"?

That would include all the Cerberus crimes, plus the very creation of Cerberus, plus the crimes Cerberus has no relation to. You'd get a bigger list...[/quote]

You could argue that the Alliance is just as much to blame for Akuze as Cerberus. But the Alliance isn't responsible for every crime Cerberus committed after the Alliance kicked them out on their asses.
[/quote]   


Oh the hell they are because as the story goes Cerberus was once part of the alliance so in fact the alliance has committed those crimes as well. its high time you and the rest of the alliance fans wake up and start dealing with the fact Cerberus did nothing wrong in ME 1 because they were part of the alliance. Its only you die hard ME 1 fans that keep this stupid myth going about Cerberus being evil 
[/quote]

Really?  Have you read Retribution yet?   Because that book was a game changer for me on my outlook on Cerberus and TIM.    

[/quote


No but then again I am not interested in the books 
[/quote]

You should read them, they're canon after all and one always comes before the next ME game.   So they do a good job of setting up the framework for the next gaming chapter.  And if you read them, your view of Cerberus and the Illusive Man WILL most certainly change as mine did.

I was never a Cerberus cheerleader, but I always thought, "Here's an organization that's committed to getting the job done no matter the cost."   I admired that TIM isn't just going to sit on his butt like everyone else and wait for the Reapers to purge the galaxy.  I admired that he WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of worrying about a public panic the way the Citadel governments are. The public SHOULD be panicked.  With the TIM I accepted that he wasn't a hero in the traditional sense,  I accepted that despite himself and his organization, he was simply the man who rose to the occasion.

But after the last two novels, I can see that TIM is just as dangerous to humanity as the Reapers.  He and his organization have gone ALOT further down the dark path than the last novel.  ME2 just focused on his dealings with Shepard, but elsewhere TIM has been getting his hands very bloody.  

And despite his best aspirations and hopes for humanity, his actions in Retribution invokes well know quotations that fit his character perfectly.

"He who fights with monsters should be careful least he thereby becomes
a monster. When you stare at the abyss, the abyss stares back at you." 

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"


[/quote]   


so what about the alliance and the council. you know I am so tired of the bullsh*t about its always Cerberus who is evil . Cerberus was a part of the alliance and dam it that means the alliance is at fault. but oh I see what all this is about ME 1 fans who believe every dam thing the alliance and those 3 stupid racist pigs on the council say. well guess what did they bring Shepard back hell no. Anderson is a bastard for turning on Shepard. Cerberus gets the job done no matter what. 
[/quote]

The Alliance is a government of all of humanity across the galaxy. It
would be grossly irresponsible to spend billions of credits to find the
body of a soldier and try to bring him back, so he can hunt his
imaginary demons. After all, there is no proof the Alliance has that the
Reapers are real, nor would any part of the Alliance know the truth
either. The Council gets their hands on everything first, so they
could've lied to the Alliance like they did to the public. They disposed
of Soverign. Besides, their argument that Soverign could've been just a
Geth flagship would be valid over the Reaper argument, because its not
supported by a dream. They have absolutly no justification for
attempting revive him from the dead. Besides, they probably figured their oh, I don't know, billions of soldiers could probably do something about the Reaper threat, along with the help of their armada.

Oh,
and would you allow horrible experiments to be performed on you by
grossly incompetent scientists who will probably use the results in some
way for war against the other species?

[MisterDyslexo]

Arijharn wrote...

Mr. niceguy15 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

Thresher Maw's needed to be tested somehow

?

Well then, we should test the effects of reaper indoctrination on humans. Come on guys, let's go round up some unsuspecting civilians!    Come on? The Thresher Maws's obviously kill. No need to waste lives to "find" that out.


- A nice guy.

If you're done making your lame joke, I challenge you to actually think about it. It's about testing if anything adequate counter-measures. Even if one was to assume that they were deliberately dropped onto Akuze for the express purpose of fighting a Thresher Maw, the alliance still didn't know what options could prove effective. I.e., what level of force is needed. I.e., is the best way to deal with a Thresher Maw if anything by mass accelerator round from orbit? Can small arms suffice (hint yes; you get more XP that way!) or will tank cannon be the minimum level of engagement?

Who knows, perhaps the Akuze incident enabled all colonies this side of the Terminus Systems be equipped with heavier firepower, and is why the Grizzly (later Mako and now perhaps the Hammerhead) is outfitted to Naval frigates.

But, I fail to see even in the worst case scenario of why sending marines onto Akuze is in the first place an 'evil' thing to do since the marines are supposed to respond to emergencies, they are supposed to defend human interests. Is it the fact that Cerberus is connected to it that makes a rather routine response now somehow dubious?

Cerberus lured the thresher maws to a colony full of innocent civilians, let the civilians die, let marines come, and let them die too, so they could cut corners with their research. They could still have researched the thresher maws without killing civilians or marines, just with less results. Besides, do you really think Cerberus doesn't want to harnass the Thresher Maws as a weapon? Its like the psi emmitter/zerg thing in Starcraft

[Arijharn]

mosor wrote...

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

The Illusive Man sanctioned a terrorist act above the planet Yandoa that exposed infants to element zero in an effort to create biotics. In addition to the children born with biotic abilities however, many were born with birth defects and tumors. Gillian Grayson was one of the children from Yandoa that was born with biotic abilities, however her autism may have also been the result of exposure to element zero while in the womb. TIM also sanctioned experiments on Gillian Grayson to try and increase her biotic ability, including regular injections that seemed to worsen her autism.

There are some people working for Cerberus who aren't outright evil, like Jacob or Miranda, but the organization itself is evil. The Illusive Man also bears responsibility for most of the crimes committed by Cerberus. They occur with his sanction and through his funding.

None of what you wrote can be considered a terrorist act. Terrorism is about spreading fear to gain some political gain. What you wrote here is Cerberus making supermen. Morally questionable, but not terrorism.

For the sake of being devils advocate:
While it was never confirmed, Cerberus did hijack element zero from a frigate
While it has never been confirmed, Cerberus is assumed to detonate mass effect engine's over populated area's (I can not remember however where I heard this, it's not in game but I have heard it somewhere... feel free to dismiss this as I can't provide proof).

And, if you want to spread the boundaries of what can be construed as terrorism (i.e., to other species) then look at the actions taken by a few in regards to the Migrant Fleet.

[Arijharn]

MisterDyslexo wrote...
Cerberus lured the thresher maws to a colony full of innocent civilians, let the civilians die, let marines come, and let them die too, so they could cut corners with their research. They could still have researched the thresher maws without killing civilians or marines, just with less results. Besides, do you really think Cerberus doesn't want to harnass the Thresher Maws as a weapon? Its like the psi emmitter/zerg thing in Starcraft

Where does it confirm this? 
Corporal Toomb's said that Cerberus deliberately sent the marines to the Thresher Maws, but how much of his word can be accepted at face value? Just because someone is emotional doesn't make them the word of God. My point is, Corporal Toomb's could be right... but he could also be wrong, so thus, in the immortal words of Legion: "insufficient data available." I'll only damn Cerberus for this if I knew the truth about it.

The only truly bastard thing that Cerberus has done, and is related to the Thresher Maws, is when they diverted Kahoku's men into a Thresher nest.

"Just with less results" is probably precisely, if you want to be utterly ruthless about it for the sake of discussion, why they would want to throw a marine into a thresher nest... having the bare knowledge of something isn't what I'd say is a particularly winning strategy.

In consideration though, if the Thresher Maws could be weaponized, why not? You wouldn't be throwing marines into the fray so thus that's less letters you'd have to write to grieving parents, widows and children. Is the qualm of using Thresher Maws as a weapon a turn off because they're living animals? What's the difference between that then, when you boil it all down, and using dogs as bomb detectors? Lets face it, no one really cares about Thresher Maws for the same reason you don't particularly care about every insect (Thresher Maws bug me after all!)

[Sajuro]

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]Halo Quea wrote...

[quote]ExtremeOne wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

[quote]anmiro wrote...

Cerberus was a apart of the Alliance and Akuze was their operation.

Point to where I call Cerberus "Rogue" and you win a cookie.
[/quote]

So why not call it "the Alliance's crimes"?

That would include all the Cerberus crimes, plus the very creation of Cerberus, plus the crimes Cerberus has no relation to. You'd get a bigger list...[/quote]

You could argue that the Alliance is just as much to blame for Akuze as Cerberus. But the Alliance isn't responsible for every crime Cerberus committed after the Alliance kicked them out on their asses.
[/quote]   


Oh the hell they are because as the story goes Cerberus was once part of the alliance so in fact the alliance has committed those crimes as well. its high time you and the rest of the alliance fans wake up and start dealing with the fact Cerberus did nothing wrong in ME 1 because they were part of the alliance. Its only you die hard ME 1 fans that keep this stupid myth going about Cerberus being evil 
[/quote]

Really?  Have you read Retribution yet?   Because that book was a game changer for me on my outlook on Cerberus and TIM.    

[/quote


No but then again I am not interested in the books 
[/quote]

You should read them, they're canon after all and one always comes before the next ME game.   So they do a good job of setting up the framework for the next gaming chapter.  And if you read them, your view of Cerberus and the Illusive Man WILL most certainly change as mine did.

I was never a Cerberus cheerleader, but I always thought, "Here's an organization that's committed to getting the job done no matter the cost."   I admired that TIM isn't just going to sit on his butt like everyone else and wait for the Reapers to purge the galaxy.  I admired that he WANTS TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT, instead of worrying about a public panic the way the Citadel governments are. The public SHOULD be panicked.  With the TIM I accepted that he wasn't a hero in the traditional sense,  I accepted that despite himself and his organization, he was simply the man who rose to the occasion.

But after the last two novels, I can see that TIM is just as dangerous to humanity as the Reapers.  He and his organization have gone ALOT further down the dark path than the last novel.  ME2 just focused on his dealings with Shepard, but elsewhere TIM has been getting his hands very bloody.  

And despite his best aspirations and hopes for humanity, his actions in Retribution invokes well know quotations that fit his character perfectly.

"He who fights with monsters should be careful least he thereby becomes
a monster. When you stare at the abyss, the abyss stares back at you." 

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions"


[/quote]   


so what about the alliance and the council. you know I am so tired of the bullsh*t about its always Cerberus who is evil . Cerberus was a part of the alliance and dam it that means the alliance is at fault. but oh I see what all this is about ME 1 fans who believe every dam thing the alliance and those 3 stupid racist pigs on the council say. well guess what did they bring Shepard back hell no. Anderson is a bastard for turning on Shepard. Cerberus gets the job done no matter what. 
[/quote]
And how exactly did Anderson turn on you? He is the reason you were able to get out of the Citadel in ME to find Saren and save the galaxy, he supports you in ME2 when you return if he's the councilor, and he supports your Spectre status being reinstated. Unless you are talking about the all human council that you Cerberus lovers probably instated then I don't know what three racist pigs you are talking about, heaven forbid the council not completely trust you after you just show up after two years.
I'm sick of everyone calling the council racist since they won't help human colonies that are on the edges of council space or outside of council space,  they supported the humans against the batarians also. Also may I point out that any organization that has "getting the job done no matter what" tends to rack up a higher amount of disasters than ones that don't.

[Arijharn]

Reasons why the Citadel council aren't the good guys:

a) They advance the interests of their own standing member species to, at times, the detriment of other species.

The Quarian's refused a new homeworld after their settling of other worlds outside the orders of the Citadel Council (presumably they lost those worlds due to the Morning War)

c) The Krogan Rebellions only offically began after the Krogan invaded an Asari world, despite the fact that the Krogan had invaded the worlds of other settled Council species beforehand.

d) They failed to support the Quarian's in their military operations against the Geth despite the fact that they were Council members (and the Geth weren't)

e) The Treaty of Farixen is patently legislature to ensure the continued military might of the ruling council members, enforced by trade (the commercial strength of the Asari dollar is the highest in the galaxy iirc, the Turian's is still 'larger' than the Alliance's despite the fact that the Alliance is quickly closing in. Considering that the governing member species are known to have to meet a wide range of 'responsibilities' to be council species, it can therefore be assumed that the Salarian Union currency is also at least roughly equal to the Turian's).



These are only the ones I can think off the top of my head too. I'm pretty sure that while exceptionally useful, Medi-Gel should be included as well (in the sense that the Council is corrupt) since it is actually 'technically illegal.'

[Dean_the_Young]

RiouHotaru wrote...

^This

It seems the most common "counter-argument" to Akuze is that since Cerberus was "part of the Alliance" and that therefore it's directly the Alliance's fault as well, accessory after the fact For all we know Akuze was the reason the Alliance cut ties to Cerberus. But yeah, those of us who are anti-Cerberus have darn good reasons.

Also, Zulu seems to love whenever anyone brings up Chasca, despite the game itself implicating Cerberus in the incident. But since Zulu will never concede the possibility...

Akuze was half a decade before the events of the game. Cerberus only went rogue monthes before ME1.

[Moiaussi]

mosor wrote...

None of what you wrote can be considered a terrorist act. Terrorism is about spreading fear to gain some political gain. What you wrote here is Cerberus making supermen. Morally questionable, but not terrorism.

The 'political gain' aspect is there too though. By experimenting on human settlements they make the Alliance protected systems seem less safe, resulting in more people being willing to look elsewhere for protection or guidance.

[Zulu_DFA]

AriesXX7 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

OMG!!! !!!!!CERBERUS ABDUCTS KITTEHS!!!!!!

I happen to have, on good authority, it was not Cerberus, who was responsible for the kittehs

it was, in fact, TIM's cat (acting of his own accord) based on this photographic evidence




lolz 

That means... TIM got framed by his own cat? ...

O-ow...

[Sparda Stonerule]

I bet that cat is the Shadow Broker.

[MisterDyslexo]

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I bet that cat is the Shadow Broker.

Wrong. The cat is the Shadow Broker's father

[AresXX7]

Zulu_DFA wrote...
That means... TIM got framed by his own cat? ...

O-ow...

I was wondering how/if you would respond to it

For those who might not have understood my joke, it was meant to be a paraody, of the pro vs anti Cerberus argument(s) on the ethical values of the research, Cerberus has conducted, using humans for test subjects.
using your link as inspiration

In this case, it is TIM's cat, doing the same research, with other cats.
To stay in the same mindframe, of the joke, just think of him as being called T.I.K. (The Illusive Kitteh - trust me, I know the cheese is strong here, but just play long)
foregoing his given name, in pursuit of the advancement of the feline species.


but, just to let you pro Cerberus folks know, the same joke can go both ways

here's one, that just might put a smile on your faces....

here's a pic showing Anderson, the Council/Alliance lapdog, getting his **** handed to him
by the cunning feline Kai Leng's expertise, in martial arts...



like I said, it's cheesy, I know, I was just having a little fun & trying to lighten the mood, that's all

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Akuze was half a decade before the events of the game. Cerberus only went rogue monthes before ME1.

Saren was doing how much before he was declared 'rogue?' Cerberus could easily have been operating outside orders for a long time before having gotten caught and punted.

The evidence from that quest series was that they were acting in a rogue fashion when it happened, and that the Alliance chain of command was effectively infiltrated by those more loyal to Cerberus than to the Alliance.

[Sparda Stonerule]

MisterDyslexo wrote...

Sparda Stonerule wrote...

I bet that cat is the Shadow Broker.

Wrong. The cat is the Shadow Broker's father

Oh dear god. You are right. WHERE WILL THE CONSPIRACY END.

[mosor]

Arijharn wrote...

For the sake of being devils advocate:
While it was never confirmed, Cerberus did hijack element zero from a frigate
While it has never been confirmed, Cerberus is assumed to detonate mass effect engine's over populated area's (I can not remember however where I heard this, it's not in game but I have heard it somewhere... feel free to dismiss this as I can't provide proof).

And, if you want to spread the boundaries of what can be construed as terrorism (i.e., to other species) then look at the actions taken by a few in regards to the Migrant Fleet.

Not even arguing whetner Cerberus comitted these actions. I'm assuming they did. Just the terrorisim monniker. The perpose of terrorism is to terrorize, not make super soldiers. As for the mirgrant fleet incident, that's not really terrorism either. It was a retrieval operation, it wasn't a lets teach the quarians a lesson operation.

[Moiaussi]

Arijharn wrote...

Reasons why the Citadel council aren't the good guys:

Completely academic. That is like saying Germany should have been cheered on in WWII because of various crimes and/or questionable acts of the British, French, Americans, or any other given nation at the time.

[Zulu_DFA]

Moiaussi wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Akuze was half a decade before the events of the game. Cerberus only went rogue monthes before ME1.

Saren was doing how much before he was declared 'rogue?' Cerberus could easily have been operating outside orders for a long time before having gotten caught and punted.

The evidence from that quest series was that they were acting in a rogue fashion when it happened, and that the Alliance chain of command was effectively infiltrated by those more loyal to Cerberus than to the Alliance.

The Alliance creating Cerberus, then getting infiltrated by Cerberus... Not as weird as it sounds, though. Plausible deniability rules.

The problem is that you can't distinguish one from another, when the same people are the Alliance during the business hours and Cerberus at night.

Take Adm. Hackett for example. Who is he? A Cerberus infiltrator, or an Alliance fleet admiral who condones Akuze?

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 01 septembre 2010 - 03:01 .